photohiker wrote:What's the link with BP and Child Labour? First I have heard of it Brett.
Strange, news to me as well, so not sure where you are getting that from?
photohiker wrote:I challenge you to buy products from any source in the world and prove that they have not been tainted by any repression of what we perceive as worker's rights. Even companies that claim to be squeaky clean have been found out to be otherwise, and you do not need to go overseas to find shonky practices, including child labour. Just because it is illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
So it is too hard so lets not try. In England Workhouses existed and it was only through substain pressure from the likes of Charles Dickson, Lord Shaftesbury amongst many others that conditions improved to eliminated them. If you never attempt something you will never succeed.
photohiker wrote:I'm not condoning these practices, I'm pointing out that Capitalism and consumerism are a poisoned cup. Every economy exhibits undesirable behaviours largely driven by price, competition and greed that impact the little guy. Its not easy for one of us to "check out" of this and unless we return to an isolated subsistence lifestyle in the back blocks somewhere and stop buying stuff, we are part of the problem..
Capitalism is a verty successful economic model providing it is tempered by a social contract. Yes, if with we do not care then like any economic model can become a force for repugant practices. I have an interest in history of WW2 and it was rather amazing the number of senior officers that refused better accomodations once they found out the source of the better accomodation. Many also did not and would later claim that they did not know. Yes we are equally culpable if we do not make at least some attempt. Mine is country of origin, not perfect nor always possible.
photohiker wrote:Not buying the goods solves the problem, do you think? Putting underpaid workers out of work in a country where a lack of work means workers must return to a rural lifestyle where opportunities are nil and unemployment isn't even measured. I wonder how they would feel about the self righteous views of western consumers then?
Our's among ours many governments ban the trade in ivory which means every year national parks in Africa loses valuable income from the collection of ivory from deceased animals. Also on that list is so call conflict diamonds. What is wrong with brands distinguishing themselves by adhering to decent standards? I am sure a slave child labour might share my view but unlikely the factory owner. I wonder if the town posioned by Union Carbine would have prefer that the factory never was there. Hang on, Union Carbine closed it themselves. There is growing anger over the West's disregard for the conditons that they create in third world countries. While totally repugnat the 911 events show that at least a few do not appreciate been trodden on.
I am not saying that products should not be produced in third world countries, even with the goal of chasing the lowest unit cost, just that the brands doing this should behave to the same ethical standards that they would if staying onshore. They should be leaders in workers conditions and environmental practices not just merely adopting the lowest permissible standard.
photohiker wrote:No simple answer. We do know that education improves things, and better education comes with improved living standards. Improved living standards come with regular income. Refer previous paragraph...
And yes, I am interested in where items are made, and I'm interested in the quality of materials, design and manufacture. But I don't routinely do research to find out what the employment conditions are for an unnamed non-contactable factory on the other side of the planet that made the item I may be interested in. Or then, research the component materials to the same extent, and further, the worker conditions at the raw material stage. There lies madness.
There are basic things that anyone can do. As mentioned country of origin is one guide the other is to hunt for ethical standard labelling and when finding it be prepare to pay a bit more. I understand that people by eggs from cadge birds for economic reasons but I personally appreciate having the ability to select eggs from free range or even barned layed production. This "madness" comes from been an eight year kid used to Dad raising chooks being confronted by kilometre longs sheds crammed with dead and dying birds. I believe a major supermarket chain in Britian is pulling out of stocking cadge eggs for no other reason than their customers are not buying them. Sad for the investors in the huge sheds and the workers involved but good news for the businesses that got with the program.
The answer is us. Not easy, nor often practical, but nor is any change and it will cost money. Hang on, maybe you are right, starting a carbon reduction scheme cost money and the top jobs of two political people so maybe we are only concerned about the environment if it cost us nothing.
Brett
Best point of the day Nuts. Demand will still be there even if we did the right thing
"lt only took six years. From now on, l´ll write two letters a week instead of one."
(Shawshank Redemption)