Gear suitable for cold weather walking

[ThomasA]

I suppose that after reading this forum for so long, I probably should post something.

Firstly, can anyone comment on the suitability of an MSR Hubba Hubba HP for winter conditions in Tas? In particular, for the OT et al rather than say WArthurs. I know it's rated 3 seasons, but some reports seem to suggest it handles some snow and wind ok, too... hate to end up sleeping in the snow though...

Secondly, I'm (a uni student without a whole pile o' cash ) in the process of collecting my gear. I will probably be walking almost exclusively in Winter, since I hate hot weather and Spring/Autumn are academic seasons. Having looked around at seemingly endless lists of gear, some of the stuff from PH Designs looks good, and reasonably priced. In particular, the Minim 400 Down bag (http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info ... cts_id=118) modified with slightly more down comes in around 800g for a "typical operating temperature" of -8C. They don't test to a standard like say One Planet, but people seem to say good things. Would that bag be sufficient for winter walking, either on the AAWT in Vic or some of the "easier" walks in Tas? I'm very much a warm sleeper.

They also make some decent looking down jackets. My only question here is whether it's worth getting one with a waterproof fabric outer. Clearly I'd still wear a shell over the top, but somehow the idea of a down jacket sans waterproofing in winter just seems wrong (if about 3 times lighter...). Also, I mean their tempest w/proof fabric, not their proprietary water resistant stuff.

Cheers!

PS I've got countless hours of enjoyment and endless ideas out of this forum over the last couple of years, so thankyou to all of you!

[Moondog55]

Down gear really needs "Whole pile of cash " so if budget is a prime consideration look to pile and fleece for you main insulation layers and wool, a good quality woollen V-neck jumper can be as warm and comfortable as icebreaker for about a 10th of the price, just remember that cutting the wind is just as important as the thickness of your warm layer so spend some money on windproof inner layers. There are a few good cheap Pertex pull-overs that weigh very little to add warnth with the minimum of mass.
I wear old ski parkas I buy at end of season sales, sometimes these really are great value if not exactly Uber-lite

[ThomasA]

Interesting, I got logged out and my reply disappeared....

Thanks for the reply. I don't really mind spending the money if what I'm spending it on is worthwhile. Prime considerations are safety, quality and weight (I'm a sprightly 54kg). Most of my walking will be solo, to begin with at least, so if down is going to offer the best weight/performance ratio then that's what I'll get.

Thomas

[Moondog55]

Start with 2 layers of thermal underwear and a body hugging windproof and work out from there, I have been reading a lot of Andy Kirkpatrick lately and been totally rethinking my kit.
I would rather walk cold and sleep warm than the other way round

[Dale]

I think Montbell offer some nice gear at reasonable prices. Good news is there are a few US web sites with Montbell sales. You could try http://www.backcountrygear.com and click through to the Montbell sale. The Alpine Light Down Jacket is $115 and should be fine as an insulation layer for the places you mentioned. Also Montbell's sleeping bags are good value, you could try the Montbell UL SS Down Hugger #1. On sale you can get them for around $300 - 330.

I don't have any experience with PHD gear but have only heard good things. I mention the Montbell range to help with the budget

[Moondog55]

Question of my own here.
Just what do most people call "Cold Weather" here anyway?? 5C 0C or minus 5 C??
For me it is anything below 16C with a wind, but I am heat adapted after 30+ years in commercial kitchens

[ThomasA]

I was insinuating anything from 0 to -10C

[andrewa]

Dale, Backcountry.com won't post to Oz. I just bought a Montbell Ex-light jkt, but got it from Gearzone.com. Compared with theoretical cost from BC.com, actual cost was less, postage was more, but it evened out in getting it to Oz.

Thomas, I wouldn't bother with a waterproof outer to a down jkt. If it is raining/snowing, use your outer layer over the top. If you use a down jkt with waterproof outer out in the rain/snow, then it will eventually get damp/wet when packed, and that's the end of your insulation. Down jkts need to be kept dry.

Also consider sleeping in your down jkt/clothes etc, so that you can use a lighter sleeping bag. It alo makes getting up in the morning much easier!

I love my Montbell Exlight jkt. I also love my Bozeman Mountain Works Coccoon jkt, and my Montbell thermawrap pants. Wearing all this over polypro +/- waterproof layer would keep me toasty in the snow down to as low as it gets in Oz, and could probably almost sleep in it! Maybe a lightweight sleeping bag over the top for winter!!

Andrew A

[Dale]

Dale, Backcountry.com won't post to Oz. I just bought a Montbell Ex-light jkt, but got it from Gearzone.com. Compared with theoretical cost from BC.com, actual cost was less, postage was more, but it evened out in getting it to Oz.

Maybe not, but backcountrygear.com did the last time I dealt with them. They're two different sites

[andrewa]

Ha. Missed that one Dale. I was a bit pissed off to go through the whole check out bit of BC.com to find that they don't post to OZ

[Dale]

I remember going through the same deal with bc.com but canning the order when their int. postage was something ludicrous. Luckily for us there are no shortage of sites to order from !

[hikingoz]

Just to put my own 2c in, I've used a Montbell UL Parka on several trips both in winter and summer in NSW and summer in Tas. At less than 300g it's light and it is pretty warm to wear around camp and sleep in. On the downside it is useless for regular daily use (my opinion anyway). It can't be worn on its own with a backpack because the fabric is too thin. It is easy to rip and when it does, it can be catastrophic. It can't be worn in rainy weather. You even have to watch it with tent condensation. It get's hot when walking in and doesn't like being sweated on. Outside its ideal uses, it is a real pain in the backside.

A water resistant shell might prevent some of these problems but as a warmth layer in normal above frozen conditions (day and night) where rain and condensation occurs down clothing is a bit risky. If I was buying a warmth layer right now for general use in Australia, I would recommend synthetic insulation, wool, fleece or even a nice softshell. You don't have to baby it, it can get dirty, wet and even ripped. It wieghs more, but in hindsight, is much more dependable.

[Drifting]

Start with 2 layers of thermal underwear and a body hugging windproof and work out from there, I have been reading a lot of Andy Kirkpatrick lately and been totally rethinking my kit.
I would rather walk cold and sleep warm than the other way round

I hate getting overheated. I'm with you.

[Tony]

I do a bit of cold weather walking/snowshoeing and have a system that works for me.

When walking I use a three thermal tops, a wind shirt, a Polar Fleece jacket and my rain jacket and I add or remove layers when needed, in doing this it is important not to get hot an sweaty as this can reduce the ability of the clothing to keep you warm, at times on a nice sunny windless day I have only worn one layer but others I have had everything on. A very good article to read is On Roger Caffins FAQ under Clothing, Warmth Layer click on 'Cold Weather Clothing'

For evenings I have a down layer which can be seen in this thread here Western Mountaineering multi use sleep system.

Tony

[Moondog55]

I was insinuating anything from 0 to -10C

Thomas I think you mean "Anticipate" or "Contemplate" here.

When our American cousins talk of cold weather ( my wife is a Yankee from upper NY state ) they mean below 0 F so we do need to be a little conservative when reading US websites, According to my beloved anything above -18C is merely cool to cold and extreme cold starts and minus 24C all the way down to minus 44 which she remembers as being too cold to walk to school.
A lot of it is being fit and acclimatised

[ThomasA]

One of the meanings of insinuate is to suggest; ie In context my use of the word cold was referring to the OT or AAWT in winter, day or night. The negative connotation arises since, well, it's cold...

And -44 is stay home weather

Thanks for the links; weekend reading always appreciated.

[Tofu_Imprint]

I prefer to use a layering system as mentioned by some already.
The coldest walking I have done was in Poland in Winter. It was nice weather (-10 or 15), but very little wind and a clearish sky.
I only had to wear one merino thermal, a polarfleece and my eVent outer shell. Mind you if it had being windy/snowing it would have being a different story.

By comparison, recently in NZ I had to wear 2 thermals, the polarfleece and the outer shell as it was extremely windy, exposed, hailing and snowing. It can't have being much colder than 2-3 degrees though.

I have bought around 2000USD worth of gear from e-omc, generally from the specials section. For example, the mountain hardwear sleeping bag rated to -29 celsius for less than 450USD (at least 800-1000AUD here).
Some brands will not ship outside the US, there is a way around this but its generally not worth it unless your spending a grand minimum and cant get the gear here. I have also bought my primus omnifuel stove, overpants and fleeces from this site.

Like you, I prefer to walk in the colder seasons. Firstly there are less or no people around, and secondly I dont have time off in the hot months

[wayno]

it isnt necessarily a case of backcountry won't post to oz, it depends what brand you are buying, it's the brands that won't allow exporting from online purchases, sign up with a mail forwarding company in the states like myus.com for free, go shopping through gearbuyer.com to find the beast deal for the gear you're after, they show reviews as well....
you can get some killer deals that way, i saved $200 on the latest columbia omni dry coat...

synthetic filll jackets are another way to go if you're worried about the down getting wet, , not as warm as down on their own, but they keep some warmth when wet... and still light as.

[ThomasA]

The polar fleece is a good idea; I hadn't considered that. Also, thanks for the article Tony, interesting reading.

Still interested to know if anyone has any experience with the Hubba Hubba HP in snow.

[wayno]

my mistake, there is a fee for signing up with the mail forwarding company, starting around $10, depending on the service you're after