Wintertising my tent Non-Theoretical discussion

[Moondog55]

So impressed with the $5- WildCountry tent I bought on ebay that I am going to try and buy one by putting one on layby during the current sale

http://www.raysoutdoors.com.au/online-s ... mendations

As well as using it to persuade the Boss to come Glamping on the odd occasion [ it will fit a queen-sized camp bed] i want to be able to use it for my winter base-camp tent.
I am looking for ideas and advice on how to do this. I'm pretty handy with a sewing machine and I do have the old tent to salvage spares and extra poles from and somewhere in my stash I have a pair of long FG poles from the 2 pole dome that was trashed a few winters ago.
The very first thing I will do with the tent however is to give both the inner tent and the fly a DWR treatment.
I seldom celebrate my birthday but I will this year and I have asked my family to give me Rays Tent City gift cards rather than the Bunnings cards that are more usual

Last edited by Moondog55 on Thu 22 Jan, 2015 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Franco]

The link takes to a $349 car camping/fiberglass poled tent

[icefest]

I wouldn't trust that tent hugely in winter. Why not just use heavy canvas to make a 6-8 pole tipi? If you use 2inch galv steel tubes as the poles and heavy duty canvas walls it'd be quite nice. Put a 4inch bolt through them near the top where they all meet and where you can tie them together and use that for the guy attachment. Assuming you have transport/can put up a gear dump, you can leave the tent there in Autumn and have a bombproof winter tent.


I was wondering about this last year; why not just take a ladder and build a large igloo? You'd be sheltered, warm and it's incredibly cheap.

With no windchill 0 degrees is quite warm, and if that's still too much you can put up a normal winter tent inside.

[Moondog55]

The link takes to a $349 car camping/fiberglass poled tent

Yep absolutely correct Franco
I have tested the frame to see if it would hols snow loads by climbing up onto the one erected in the yard and I'm satisfied it has the required strength
What ever I end up with needs to be capable of Glamping so I cant go any smaller

[Moondog55]

I won't be able to do a dump and spend an extended time up there this year Icefest so I need something I can put on the sled and still pull it

[photohiker]

I think you mean "Winterising" Moondog. Winerising the tent is real easy with a couple of cases of nice shiraz

[Moondog55]

Nice pickup and I just fixed it
ROLF And yes Chateau Cardboard is all I can afford at the moment.
One very cheap and easy modification will be to add a crossbar or two between the two vestibule hoops
The tent I have has valances on the front and rear as well I will add those back. Another cheap and easy mod is the addition of another side tie down on each side where the auxiliary poles cross [ if you look at the link the top of the white triangle ] and of course the possibility of doubling up the hoop section poles; I have many sets of rings and pins ready to use if I can find them in the midden that is

[Strider]

I won't be able to do a dump

Sounds painful

[Moondog55]

I'm tempted to ignore that remark but I can't.
Let's just say that if I have to make a choice I'd rather be bound-up

[Moondog55]

I've played around with a couple of possibilities using FG poles I have in my stash

To use the FG pole all I need to add is a socket on the pole at the correct length, a pin & ring assembly at the ground level and some method of attaching the end of the pole to the front hoop
A pole on each side
Another idea I had was a pole connecting front and rear hoops over the top

Attachments

First idea

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Another look at first idea

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Second idea

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Second look at second idea

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[sim1oz]

MD, when is your birthday?

Tent looks cool, though I don't have enough winter/snow camping experience to comment on its suitability. It looks huge, definitely glamping material. I suspect with all that material you would want to put it up in an area that offers some wind protection.

[Moondog55]

Hi Sim It's in between the 31st of January and the second of February
That's the 4 person version, the 6 man version is better as while not much bigger it is 70mm taller inside.

[Moondog55]

One definite possibility if I buy a new tent would be to start replacing the FG wands with good quality aluminium ones. At least for the front hoops to start with but that would also be a weight saving. Another thought occurred to me while I was playing around too. Adding in some small but strong plastic rings would allow the use of cord lacing between hoops. This has been pretty much standard practice on mountaineering tents for decades but seldom seen on ordinary tents.
But where would I lace to and from and which hoops would need the extra???

[Moondog55]

I've been doing some more tinkering.
Adding a second wand to the vestibule doesn't add much to stiffness [ I didn't think it would] but the triangulated internal guys do, these tents have hanging loops for the electrical cord which I utilised in an extended "X" configuration.
I received an estimate from Remote on replacing the FG wands with alloy ones and it would be ~$60 to $80- per wand which sounds reasonable until you count the total number of wands needed,2 wands @ $80- and another 4@ $60- soon adds up and you begin to see why Hilleberg tents cost so much

[Moondog55]

Interesting observation
I was outside tinkering and hanging up the laundry [ yes I'm domesticated ] when I heard the Paulonia in the yard start to rustle strongly and I looked up to see the hooped part of the tent flat to the ground for a second to then come upright and be knocked to the ground twice more. I checked on the BOM site and we had just had a gust of 54kph, FG poles may not be all that stiff but they do recover well. The tent was without the fly and was not guyed at all

[Moondog55]

The Boss just approved the purchase of a second-hand tent for Glamping which is the same size but in much better condition; so after my brother has finished with this it will become a donor tent for spare parts
Ebay a DMH 6 Geo-Dome with vestibule for $180-
Glamping week-end here we come

[Moondog55]

And we gave the DMH tent to Evil Step daughter and we are going to use the cheaper bigger tent. Now I admit in advance that this is a very large sail area and the poles will have to be very much stronger and many more guy points will be needed.
However I have a pole question Given the tight curve needed for this particular tent I know I will need precurved pole sections for some of the wand.
http://www.ansco.com.au/Tent-Pole-26-49 ... 490-26.htm
At $13.40 each tho I'm hoping that I can get away with only 3 precurved poles in the very centre of the arch and the others in straight sections
I need 11 of the 660mm sections for each main wand.
I did think that the larger version [ that is this tent] had Durawrap poles but that was a display mistake at Rays, the Coleman poles are the same size and who-ever set up the tents simply used the wrong pole.

Given the high cost of US postage and the current exchange rate Anscos prices seem reasonable
Comments? Advice??
New poles would swap over to the new tent when we get it

[stry]

Good find MD !! Quality poles !!

Last time I had to buy that sort of thing was to repair the damage caused by someone falling into my tent, and I am pretty sure costs were at least that high, although the A$ was a lot weaker at that time.

The "belt and braces" in me would probably prefer a few thou extra wall thickness in the bigger diameter poles, but I am happy to accept that Easton know more about that than I do.

Can't comment on what is necessary for your project, but I would be wary about spoiling the ship for few half penny worth of tar. I know the price of those sections will add up, but If in any significant doubt, add another pole.

Or maybe go with your thoughts on the minimum necessary for the glamping w/e and add another later, certainly before P/V ??

[Moondog55]

Been thinking about that very thing Stry.
I will not be taking the old tent to PV of course, I may be slow but I think I have learnt my lesson there.
The big tent actually sheds the wind quite well due to the semi-conical shape and the weakest point is the extended vestibule.
We had a lot of rain last nite and while the seams do need to be siliconed it didn't leak too badly for a fly so full of pin holes
Deciding exactly where to put the wood stove is going to be a little harder but I think it will be in the front quarter on the RH side

Attachments

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Needs guy points where poles cross

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Tall; over 2100 at the peak

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Front of tent, wood stove in the RHS quarter panel I think

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[stry]

To be known from now on as "The Caterpillar"

[Moondog55]

To be known from now on as "The Caterpillar"

Me or the tent??
Should I paint yellow stripes on it?

I can't actually set it up tight and taught, too big for our back yard which is going to make silicon doping it a little hard.

[Moondog55]

Here's a question.
Where would other people put the wood stove?
My initial thoughts were to use the vestibule with the chimney exiting the wall but I have had second thoughts and perhaps cutting most of the floor out of the large central dome would work better with the chimney exiting close to the domes apex.
After all I will need less room for sleeping than for cooking/eating/living and having most of the chimney inside would mean a greater heat transfer to the tents occupants.
EDIT
Another thought just occurred to me as well; if using the apex exit I could add a vertical tent pole [ such as the carbon fibre pole I made for the tipi; and scure the chimney to the central pole for extra stability and then it should be able to take quite heavy snow loading. As its a broad apex and not a sharp peak however how would I secure the central pole and keep it stable and centralised?

[Moondog55]

Add this to the list of "Must do/have" the zips only work in one direction. Even in summer this can be a PITA when its raining. So putting in extra top down sliders will be a the top of the list. Easy job but a bit of a fiddly one.
I'm looking for tent pole swivel connectors in 12.4mm if anybody has a link to something that would work, all I have found so far are 8mm

[stry]

Not keen on the vestibule idea.

I would think either as far from the entrance as possible, IE close to the back wall; or, given the sloping(albeit slightly) walls, your second idea of central in the main dome.

I prefer central in the main dome, with an approximately vertical flue, as it leaves the walls free for gear and sleeping, makes a cheery focal point, reduces the chances of ignition(tent, gear, bedding. whatever), and as you correctly surmise, a lot of heat comes off the flu and can be best utilized with a central in the dome position.

[Moondog55]

Yes I have come around to this myself. This would also allow me to use the insulating fleece blanket I used last winter in the roof as a ceiling in this tent too.
I have a system for securing the flue to the central pole i I went that way and the CF pole is way overkill in strength

[Moondog55]

Next thing to do is design and build an efficient wood fueled heater. I do have a reasonably sturdy Stainless steel pressure vessel here; an old bug sprayer, DiPel so non toxic to humans
Its a cylinder 170mm in diameter and 290mm tall, a slightly curved top with a 40mm hole in it for the pressure pump fitting and a flat top
As getting a semi permanent stove emptied of the ash I was thinking of turning it upside down and using a small stainless mesh or colander in the bottom with some sort of jam tin ash collector and running the flue out of the top. The collar is 50mm high Is 50mm of insulation enough? I'd probably use vermiculite for the low weight and easy availability
Quite a bit different to the last wood stove I build which has rusted out too quickly, used too much fuel too quickly and smoked like an old sailor. Burn the fuel as hot and efficiently as possible and use the hot flue as the tent heater.
The question is do I use a canted inlet or a horizontal one and what do I use as the fuel feed/air inlet ?
Would a short section of 100mm stainless steel flue be too large?
75m Stainless flue is almost impossible to get but I was thinking of using 100mm flue for the first section attached permanently to the firebox and using a length of Titanium foil for the height
Corvus/Franco you have a lot of experience with stoves, what's your thinking on the matter

These are excellent quality fittings but not cheap

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251353524792 ... EBIDX%3AIT

Attachments

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8 liters in total capacity

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Top view showing the 40mm hole and the 100mm collar

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Flat base

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Collar close-up

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[Moondog55]

A quick re-read of the Aprovecho site and a chimney that high needs a much bigger feed tube so a 150mm entry

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-150mm-Stai ... 3a85d66105

So a 6 inch feed and a 4 inch flue make sense and no damper; tapering to fit a narrower titanium roll or a length of 75mm downpipe
Because a rocket stove has no door they should be much easier to make and with luck I can find a clean and empty drum for the outer in my shed as well as some gal coach bolts and washers for the legs
Angled of straight feed tube tho? Can't find enough information on winter tent use to help me make up my mind

[Moondog55]

I have a second of those pressure tanks if anybody want s it, I paid $20- each so not expensive

[markg]

Wouldn't a damper in the flue be a good idea? At least one damper on the fire box. You will burn an awful lot of wood otherwise. A lot of thermals will just exit via the flue, not too good if you want to heat something up for a meal or drinks. I don't know! If it were a plumbing question I would have an idea. LOL!

[Moondog55]

Modern design says to reduce or restrict combustion air not choke the exhaust, but if I need to restrict airflow into the firebox I was thinking of simply placing an empty A10 tin over the feed tube. For a space heater I wasn't worried about cooking on it although it should end up with a small flat space to slowly melt snow
In this instance the hot flue is the heating element, there are many ways of improving the heating efficiency by using multiple small tubes but I think that level of welding is beyond me and not affordable at tradesman rates
There is little unit but the cost is too high for my budget
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-5-Enamel ... 3a85c97e9e

But there is no affordable 5 inch to 3 inch adapter for the rest of the flue and the 4 inch to 5 inch adapter is not cheap either
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-100mm-to-5 ... 1353483974

I could easily fit a damper in the first flue section if I could afford it

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251631922035 ... EBIDX%3AIT

Funds are tight which is why I will most probably use gal downpipe and have a hot open air burn to get rid of the zinc coating

There is no shortage of small sticks in a snowgum woodland