which therm-a-rest

[Liamy77]

yup.... bom said down to 600m this am!....

[Liamy77]

i cant wait to nail my kids with their first snowballs! ( insert evil laugh )

[ILUVSWTAS]

Musta come down lower than that for it to have settled here.

[nq111]

Exped synmat UL

Packs down to a tiny size
R-value 3.1 (which is reviewed as seeming çonservative)
460g
Bigger and deeper than a thermarest
Comes with repair kit unline neoair
I bought mine from an australian online vendor for about $130 shipped - cheaper than i could get overseas (or a neoair from overseas). That is a first in many years.

Add a cheap blue foam mat for snow - maybe 350g addition - to get total r-value 5.5-6.0. But it should be good on its own to below 0.

[Azza]

Comes with repair kit unline neoair

My neoair came with a repair kit if you can call it that. A patch to stick over any holes.
I'm pretty happy with it, I've found it noticeably warmer than my old prolite. Which I think has a higher r-value.
So I don't know whats going on there. Size and weight wise I'm pretty happy with it.

[ninjapuppet]

Exped synmat UL

Packs down to a tiny size
R-value 3.1 (which is reviewed as seeming çonservative)
460g
Bigger and deeper than a thermarest.

Your exped UL caught my interest when mainpeak advertised it as being rated to -7C which covers most of the camping I do.
However on the exped site it only lists it as being down to -4C, so theres abit of a conflicting report here. My exped mats have so far weighed spot on according to the specs so its a brand I trust from first impressions.

Just wondering if nq111 or anyone else has tried them down to -7C yet? I would struggle to get to sleep on a neoair at those temps without an additional CCF.
if its only -4C I dont think its worth an upgrade from a neoair but if it really is -7C then that truly is worth the 60g sacrifice over the neoair.

SynMat 7 UL M
Size 183 x 52 x 7 cm
Weight 460 g, Packsack 9 g
Packed 24 x 9.5 cm
Temperature -4º C
Fill Weight 60 g/m² Texpedloft Microfiber

[Empacitator]

I did have NeoAir with a quilt which I took down to 1c and could feel that it was at it's limit (for me at least). Not cold but could definately feel the cold coming up from the ground.
I now have a Synmat 7 UL which I will taking out next weekend for the first time, but it definately feels a lot warmer, more durable and for me, more comfortable. Probably just a personal preference between the horizontal and vertical baffles... I'm really looking forward to trying it.

[ninjapuppet]

nice review of the Synmat 7 UL here provided by exped themselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ovZQr8XujQ

according to exped, it is suitable for snow use and notice how the Left and Right sides are raised up abit to give you control from rolling off.
If it truly does what it says, I think this is a serious contender to beat the neoair as a general purpose mat!

[Nuts]

NP, as you likely know (as yet) there are no standardised ratings for mats, the manufacturers can say what they like. Perhaps this is where your thinking whether you trust Exped?
Lets hope (for you guys sake) they sorted out the problems they have had with the de-laminating shell and along those long seams, I would baulk at buying another Exped mat until any new design is well proven.

With (what would likely be) the equivalent of 350-400 person/nights so far we have had no (manufacturing) failures with Thermarest neo-air (no link with them, pay retail prices more or less). While Exped may have sorted things out and I try not to give (serious ) criticism lightly it would also be a bit rough not mentioning these things when people come looking for info... All the best anyhow...

[Dale]

An alternative to an Exped Down Mat but warmer that a non insulated light mat is the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core Pad. The regular Mummy version is rated to -9 and weighs under 600g and is just over 6cm thick. I've had it down to low minuses and was fine - haven't pushed it any lower.

They cost about $75 US.

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail ... tedAirCore

[Liamy77]

An alternative to an Exped Down Mat but warmer that a non insulated light mat is the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core Pad. The regular Mummy version is rated to -9 and weighs under 600g and is just over 6cm thick. I've had it down to low minuses and was fine - haven't pushed it any lower.

They cost about $75 US.

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail ... tedAirCore

what bag are you using with the big agnes? i only ask as i am using a lost ranger BA bag with my neoair atm....

[nq111]

Your exped UL caught my interest when mainpeak advertised it as being rated to -7C which covers most of the camping I do.
However on the exped site it only lists it as being down to -4C, so theres abit of a conflicting report here. My exped mats have so far weighed spot on according to the specs so its a brand I trust from first impressions.

Just wondering if nq111 or anyone else has tried them down to -7C yet? I would struggle to get to sleep on a neoair at those temps without an additional CCF.
if its only -4C I dont think its worth an upgrade from a neoair but if it really is -7C then that truly is worth the 60g sacrifice over the neoair.

I wouldn't go by the temp rating as much as the r-value (although I have read some slightly conflicting figures on that too) and how that relates to your sleep system. There are also so many other factors to consider. For example i have slept comfortably on a glacier at 14k ft with water bottles freezing solid next to me with only a standard 3/4 therm-a-rest (r-value about 3.5). However it was dry cold (not tassie!), the bag was very warm and I was well fed and hydrated. The nature of the snow was that it likely gave great insulation in itself. Tassie's just above/below freezing and wet combination is some of the hardest to keep consistently warm in IMHO.

Reviews i read in researching the exped seemed fairly consistent that neoair felt colder than expected and synmat warmer. But that in itself doesn't say enough.

Personally, i wouldn't trust it by itself if I was expecting much below zero. I like the failsafe option of a CCF mat combination if it is going to be cold / snow and with the synmat that gets me above my target r-value of 5 minimum for snow conditions. CCF is light, cheap and foolproof (though bulky) and will keep you warm enough if the synmat pops and can't be fixed. The synmat is for the comfort!

[Dale]

An alternative to an Exped Down Mat but warmer that a non insulated light mat is the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core Pad. The regular Mummy version is rated to -9 and weighs under 600g and is just over 6cm thick. I've had it down to low minuses and was fine - haven't pushed it any lower.

They cost about $75 US.

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail ... tedAirCore

what bag are you using with the big agnes? i only ask as i am using a lost ranger BA bag with my neoair atm....

Last used with a Summerlite at low minuses - probably -1, -2 or so. I believe the Big Agnes bags are designed for the pads to integrate in a sleeve ?

[Liamy77]

yup they are but the neoair fits it well enough

[Kinsayder]

I've been using a thin Metzeler for years which has been quite trusty but as I'm getting older I think I might be due for a slightly softer nights sleep. The NeoAir has caught my eye but I'm curious about the temperature rating; what happens below zero? Does it snap or anything odd like that, or is that simply the point or comfort? Would coupling it with a warm sleeping bag (RAB Andes 800) be enough?

[hikin_jim]

I own a Prolite, a Prolite Plus, and now a NeoAir (about a year and a half). I have to say the NeoAir is the best for sleeping that I've tried. I'm a side sleeper, and my hips and shoulders can really hurt after a night on a thin mat. No problems with the NeoAir. I weigh about 100kg and am 183cm tall. No problems for me on the NeoAir, but as I say, I'm a side sleeper. The mat crinkles and makes noise when I first get on it, but other than that, it's great. Never wakes me up (I've heard some people speculate about this). The mat is SO compact and fits so well in my pack. I really really like it. Very spendy though.

I have not tried it in cold weather.


Some of my typical gear (L to R): Sleeping bag, 540g; NeoAir sleeping mat, 370g; Nalgene 1 liter bottle, 112g; my entire kitchen (except food), 454g; shelter (not including stakes), 311g.

HJ

Last edited by hikin_jim on Wed 30 Nov, 2011 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[norts]

I have just ordered a All seasons Neo Air. but I have read about people using the Neo air with closed cell mat underneath for when you start getting in the minus temperatures.

Roger

[Tony]

I have just ordered a All seasons Neo Air. but I have read about people using the Neo air with closed cell mat underneath for when you start getting in the minus temperatures.

Roger

Hi Roger,

I have used my STD Neoair regular on snow with a 9mm thick closed cell foam mat on top in some very cold temps with good success.

Tony

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

The NeoAir All Season is really, and I mean REALLY, warm. Very, very comfy too. The width (51cm) is JUST enough for me, would have preferred 55-60.

I slept on mine the other night (inside, admittedly). Laying on the NeoAir with just a silk liner (no sleeping bag) was just as warm as in my bed with a down quilt. It is quite a strange sensation - you can actually feel the heat radiating back to you (when I heard that the first time, I thought was just marketing BS, but nope - definitely true).

I always get extremely cold when I sleep, so will keep my -5 bag. Having said that, most people could probably get their kit weight and bulk down by getting an All Seasons Neo and taking a lighter bag.