Bushwalking gear and paraphernalia. Electronic gadget topics (inc. GPS, PLB, chargers) belong in the 'Techno Babble' sub-forum.

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TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.
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Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 09 Oct, 2012 1:27 pm

in america warehouse shopping was big for a long time before the rise of the internet and online shopping, people can buy anything at warehouse outlets people will drive hundreds of k's. so even the bricks and mortar shops are at wholesale. again probably the scale of the population that made it more workable there but now its gong international.... distributors charging large markups are going to be dinosaurs, they can't hold out against online shopping... they are just signing the death warrant for so many bricks and mortar shops...

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 09 Oct, 2012 3:27 pm

Nuts wrote:Lol, Will your pet hate eventually be not being able to buy anything but coffee locally? Who knows where this will end or more importantly when. It is certainly only short term satisfaction? One thing is sure, it's not only primary and secondary industry that will suffer, will the average wage again need to be $7.50 per hour? Those less easily identified by the outcome of their workday won't be immune.

Driving through Vic last week there are towns already reduced to a few shops, last time I saw that was at the height of a recession. No answers here either but this surely can't end well.


I find if difficult to side with the patriots where all the distributers and retailers contribute is the import and sale of goods manufactured overseas. If we buy Australian made (e.g. One Planet) we are supporting Australian manufacturing jobs (which do create wealth, but only if the product is worthy). However, all we do when we allow Australian retailers and distributers to overcharge is deprive ourselves of other discretionary goods and services (e.g. coffee, holidays, etc), and thus reduce the potential for employment growth and wealth creation in other sectors of the economy. Rip-off retail should thus not be viewed as the foundation of a healthy national economy - it does nothing to increase the wealth of society. Rather, rip-off's are better viewed as a national liability, diverting scarce resources from other more worthy causes.

In light of this, the rejection of internet shopping in favour of uncompetitive local purchasing would make as much sense as rejecting any other beneficial technology or system that has improved our lives, on the basis that it displaces some form of employment (desirable or otherwise). Those who reject internet shopping should also (to be consistent) reject the wheel, the internal combustion engine, supermarkets, roads, rail, electricity, sewage, computers, etc, all to support local employment and the economic structures of a bygone era.

Cheers

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 09 Oct, 2012 3:38 pm

maddog wrote:
Nuts wrote:Lol, Will your pet hate eventually be not being able to buy anything but coffee locally? Who knows where this will end or more importantly when. It is certainly only short term satisfaction? One thing is sure, it's not only primary and secondary industry that will suffer, will the average wage again need to be $7.50 per hour? Those less easily identified by the outcome of their workday won't be immune.

Driving through Vic last week there are towns already reduced to a few shops, last time I saw that was at the height of a recession. No answers here either but this surely can't end well.


I find if difficult to side with the patriots where all the distributers and retailers contribute is the import and sale of goods manufactured overseas. If we buy Australian made (e.g. One Planet) we are supporting Australian manufacturing jobs (which do create wealth, but only if the product is worthy). However, all we do when we allow Australian retailers and distributers to overcharge is deprive ourselves of other discretionary goods and services (e.g. coffee, holidays, etc), and thus reduce the potential for employment growth and wealth creation in other sectors of the economy. Rip-off retail should thus not be viewed as the foundation of a healthy national economy - it does nothing to increase the wealth of society. Rather, rip-off's are better viewed as a national liability, diverting scarce resources from other more worthy causes.

In light of this, the rejection of internet shopping in favour of uncompetitive local purchasing would make as much sense as rejecting any other beneficial technology or system that has improved our lives, on the basis that it displaces some form of employment (desirable or otherwise). Those who reject internet shopping should also (to be consistent) reject the wheel, the internal combustion engine, supermarkets, roads, rail, electricity, sewage, computers, etc, all to support local employment and the economic structures of a bygone era.

Cheers


Very well put Maddog.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 09 Oct, 2012 4:05 pm

I thought we All ripped each other off, I'm not an economist.

So we have all discovered that retail is a rip off, food can be produced cheaper elsewhere, the dirtiest deeds of forestry are better done in someone else's back yard. It is not simply the ability to shop online and wasn't really what I was getting at. Perhaps even another generation will get by on the backs of emerging economies but it won't last... Or maybe it will? We haven't had our turn.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Wed 10 Oct, 2012 11:56 am

Good point Nuts that if we are not careful we will reap the crop that we sow, by that no local shops. The old traditional shops is what I liked as I generally could march in Friday and get what I was after for the weekend. If a buckle broke spare parts were on hand. Quality as defined by longevity was a given and yes pricing very high. Also only one or two shops in town specializing in bushwalking gear. Actually I liked this model, also probably spent less all up.

Nowadays I can visit seven or is it now eight shops in Launceston and not find a buckle nor mittens in my size. The dumbing down happened as everyone chased the Kathmandu model. Sure Kathmandu model made one person very rich but nowadays people are awake to this approach. Trouble is it pushed out a lot of the older style stores. Passion 8 in Hobart being a rare survivor.

Sure there will be a shake out of the single brand stores as four in Launceston is just too many. Just as Chickenfeed is retreating from many places under competitive pressure.

People are looking for good brands but the single brand stores just do not provide the wide selection that people are after The only option is online stores for people without access to the likes of Passion 8, most if us actually.

Look down the main retail areas of towns and most shops are multi store chains selling exactly the same stuff. Not surprising is price is the main selling tactic so endless sales.

Also as single brand shops have killed independent manufacturers so they have started to go online. Just a change in practices and one that as enabled them to survive.

Honestly the do not ship bans by Cascade Designs is just an attempt to prop up an average importer and chain stores. It is further playing into the hands of single brand stores as they flog knock offs at inflated prices.

My belief is good independent stores and manufacturers will survive but at least one or more single brand stores will fail. Also distribution will be done direct from manufacturer to shop bypassing the inefficient distributors.

Like all changes it will be sad but It is us that is driving this in response to poor service and selection. If service and selection justified the prices charged the change would not be so dramatic.

Regards

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Wed 10 Oct, 2012 12:06 pm

unfortunately in the future it may be that when you buy on line you buy your spares as well in advance of breakages because you may not be able to get those local shops
it's not just online shops killing the one stop outdoor shops though. the new big outfits esp kathmandu that just flog mainstream gear at prices the friendly knowledgeable local shops can't match cut the rug out from under the locally owned shops. they simply dont get the business volume to stay in business... the big business model of a highly efficient cost effective business out competing the small player has played its part in destroying the locals....
but anything can put them out of business. there was a shop in wellington that had been going for decades. the landlord doubled his rent overnight. he moved out to a location with less foot traffic, the landlord went to his rival and offered his original shop to them and they took it and all his business...
he had to buy his way out of his lease and shut up shop for good and go and work for his rival....
retail is a ruthless business. there's just not enough sentiment in it to keep a lot of businesses alive when the market gets tough...
rentals in high street shops and malls mean you have to have a good turnover to stay in business... its hard to get a shop in a place with good foot traffic that isnt in a mall...
i live in auckland, i dont shop in the centre of town at all. crap, expensive parking and a lack of concentration of the shops it want see to that.
the only reason i dont always go to the mall is i live close to an area with good high street shopping that happens to still have a one stop bushwalking shop. but the prices of a lot of their gear is just too steep. perhaps they do more business because they are in a well to do area and near a lot of outdoor shop and capture part of that foot traffic..

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 6:46 am

This in The Age today.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/shop- ... 29mdm.html

Myer and Djs are feeling the pinch from online competition. Are we seeing any genuine attempts by Aus outdoor gear retailers to adjust their strategies?

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 8:28 am

aparently kathmandu has recarded a big increase in profit....

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 11:05 am

wayno wrote:aparently kathmandu has recarded a big increase in profit....


Maybe this is off topic, I'm not sure, but I don't really consider Kathmandu to be an outdoor gear shop, to me they're a lifestyle shop that trades on an idea but not a practicality.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 11:17 am

Kathmandu certainly arent a one stop shop, but looking at their gear lately some of their clothes are well made from top quality materials. i'm pretty fussy and i just bought some fleece tops from them because they were as good as anything of their type of material i could get in nz, i struggled to find the same material in other shops. and it's close to as good as what i could ahve gotten overseas for the price...
theres more thought going into the design and use of materials and hybrid garments with a mix of materials.
certainly to a certain extent they are catering mainly for backpackers and people looking for casual outdoor wear but i woudlnt write them off completely as a shop for bushwalkers.. theres certainly a bigger and better variety on offer than what has been on offer in the past. in the past i'd have writen them off as producing mediocre gear at best. but i think that has changed..

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 3:29 pm

Duly noted, Wayno. I still doubt I'll go for their stuff but maybe I'll stop teasing (friendly, of course) my wife when she does.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 5:59 pm

I think Franco's maths and explanations in this thread are absolutely spot on.
Stores like Anaconda and Rays Outdoors do sell stuff similar to Quecha for similarly lower prices than "quality" brands.
I am not a fan of local prices for good gear, but will pay a reasonable premium because I recognise we are "the lucky country" and we have higher wages, penatly pay and leave etc -hiking on your holidays in France could be crowded as about 75% of the country goes on holiday at the same time. :-)
I have reached the point like many here that I buy much of my gear online because the local retailers don't supply the "niche" lightweight hiking gear. The lower prices are a bonus.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 6:05 pm

in the states there is no legal requirement for annual leave in employment contracts. 25% of workers have no annual leave,
15 days leave is considered pretty good. most people have ten or less, but they have a lot of public holidays...

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 6:31 pm

wayno wrote:in the states there is no legal requirement for annual leave in employment contracts. 25% of workers have no annual leave,
15 days leave is considered pretty good. most people have ten or less, but they have a lot of public holidays...


Geez, I had nine weeks off last year and thought that having to get by on seven this year was a bit rough! Having none would drive me completely mad.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 7:29 pm

One of the constant issues for the yanks going on hikes like the AT is getting "leave of absence" from their employer. We would call this leave without pay and most would be p####d off if their employer didn't give it.
Rather than be too worried about our prices I think most Aussies should buy local for little stuff and things at reasonably comparable prices, buy online for the really inflated items and search the internet for "better fit" stuff for things like ultralight gear.
All this while marvelling at the current exchange rates, our low unemployment rate compared to most of the western world, and that air fares are relatively low.
If you really want to moan about the way Australian prices are so high compared to global prices try searching for the price of cars overseas.
Why worry about the fact that a tent here is $100 more than it really should be when an average car is 1,000's of dollars dearer than the same car in most other countries.
The outdoor gear industry is not isolated in it's high pricing in Oz.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Tue 20 Nov, 2012 10:50 pm

Well yeah if you consider Holdens and Hyundais "cars". Anyway, between Europe and Australia, car prices are mostly the same. Australia has lower prices on hi-fi though, mainly on TVs, maybe because they're closer to Asian countries I don't know (they lack choice though). On another matter, I noticed something : it's usually impossible regarding clothes/gear/shoes to find good prices on main online Australian shops, but it is on ebay from big Australian sellers for some reason (verified sellers of course, not the ones selling knock-offs). I don't quite get how those Australian ebay sellers, who have so many items they feel like the real deal, can't create their own online shop with such competitive prices, and leave the shadow of ebay. Maybe despite the commission ebay's taking, it's still cheaper for those sellers to use ebay as a mediator than to comply financially to the Australian regulation on independent online shops.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Wed 21 Nov, 2012 3:13 am

with electronics theres less monopoly with distributors, more competition, more realistic prices.
a lot of the top outdoor brands have a distributor monopoly arrangement , they dont have to drop their prices , they argue they have to charge the prices they do to make a living, I'd like to know how much they are making.. bear in mind they are self employed and get the tax breaks that comes with that , at least in NZ. i wonder if the north face with its flagship shops make much money out of the shops , or whether they are as much to showcase their gear for online shoppers. or are they run as a franchise and all costs have to be recovered.

Re: No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

Wed 21 Nov, 2012 7:11 pm

Try checking the difference in prices for Toyotas in the USA and here Hallu and you'll see what I mean.
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