Toxins in Outdoor Fabrics

[wayno]

PU and the DWR chemicals used in most waterproof breathable jackets are linked with illnesses .....
greenpeace published a study showing how high those chemicals were in most of the outdoor brands, even ones that claimed they were clean.
also the chemicals used in gore tex and event are also linked with illnesses
you can't win...
given the chemicals most westerners are exposed to on a daily basis, can we really escape? one chemical or another may make a lot of us sick in the end
well at least the pvc tent floor in my olympus is pretty bombroof against water.
its not an uncommon story, companies claim to be switching to les toxic materials when they arent, they are switching to chemical products that just havent been tested or proven yet to be toxic, its like PBA in drink bottles, PBA was proven to be toxic to humans, so they replaced it with another chemical PBC which hadnt been proven toxic, but now that it is so widespread in drinking bottles more testing has been done on it an it's proving to be just as toxic as PBA
greenpeace themselves supply their staff with tese toxic chemicals in them, at lower levels than most jackets but they havnet offered a totally chemical free answer for waterproof clothing for their own staff... if greenpeace can't claim to be free of these nasty chemicals then how can any commercial manufactuer of these breathable raincoat membranes and treaments claim to be chemical free?
greenpeace study on raincoats below
if you're worried about chemicals in your waterproof clothing mountain hardwear came out as the most chemical free of the well known brands tested, in some cases a lot cleaner than some of the other well known brands,,
patagonia was one of the worst, marmot pretty bad too
http://www.greenpeace.org/international ... log/42788/

[casey79]

Hi wayno

Very interesting. Just checking what PBA stands for? I was under the impression that it was BPA or (Bisphenol A).

If the simple things are not correct does that mean the rest of your comments are correct or nonsense?

[Mark F]

Good thing we don't eat our rainwear or use it to collect drinking water.

[wayno]

Hi wayno

Very interesting. Just checking what PBA stands for? I was under the impression that it was BPA or (Bisphenol A).

If the simple things are not correct does that mean the rest of your comments are correct or nonsense?

yes i stand corrected, good call. you're right, my mistake there, it is BPA, i dont have the article but it was something like BPC that is replacing it and turning out to me toxic as well.

in one sense good on macpac for not using PVC if its toxic, but the whole argument about toxic chemicals over the years has turned into a minefield, everyone is getting caught unawares as more long term research comes out showing trends of toxicity and more sensitive equipment picks up these chemicals... what do we do go back to canvas oilskins?
its intersting mountain hardwear are so low in toxic chemicals, they are using their rebranded version of event dry-q and event has a certain aount of toxicity to it in part from the manufacturing chemicals left on it.

for all these toxic chemicals we're still living pretty long healthy lives compared to decades ago.... people complain about burning fossil fuels, but you read about what life was like with horses in cities and coal burning trains and factories....
its an argument in itself.

[Strider]

yes i stand corrected, good call. you're right, my mistake there, it is BPA, i dont have the article but it was something like BPC that is replacing it and turning out to me toxic as well.

The replacement is Bisphenol-S

[nq111]

PU and the DWR chemicals used in most waterproof breathable jackets are linked with illnesses .....
greenpeace published a study showing how high those chemicals were in most of the outdoor brands, even ones that claimed they were clean.
also the chemicals used in gore tex and event are also linked with illnesses
you can't win...
given the chemicals most westerners are exposed to on a daily basis, can we really escape? one chemical or another may make a lot of us sick in the end
well at least the pvc tent floor in my olympus is pretty bombroof against water.

Given the extreme difficulty of designing epidemiological statistical methods to pick out genuine low-level toxin effects i wouldn't give this much credit - especially given the source. It basically possible to show with some scientific basis that every chemical bar maybe Vitamin C causes illness.

For example the best meta analysis from several independent sources are now showing the Bisphenol A (BPA) scare was based on unsettled science (you could argue it was the right approach to take the precautionary approach and interpret the worst case) and that it does not appear to cause any issues at normal exposure levels.

[wayno]

yup and it may actually be a combination of factors that makes people sick
latest research with skinn cancer shows there may be a link with bad diet, and excessive sun exposure that makes people more prone to cancer, yet the sun has always got the bad rap... also the rate of skin cancer has increased at the same rate as the use of sunscreen, study inn aus and norway both supposedly made that link.
so someone says lets stop using this chemical and replace it with another chemical, and hope no one flags that as being a bad chemical.... so what did it achieve pulling pvc from use in the tent floor now there are so many chemicals implicated....
hind site is a wonderful thing... maybe the chemicals are to blame for illness or maybe theres more to it than just the chemicals...

[Strider]

latest research with skinn cancer shows there may be a link with bad diet, and excessive sun exposure that makes people more prone to cancer

Duh. Bad diet = inhibited immune response.

[wayno]

not entirely, bad diet, poor quality skin, doesnt resist sun damage, there was an article recently that a researcher was debunking that vegetable fat is good and saturated fat is bad, most vegetable fat people buy has been damaged by processing or ageing, and ingested on a regular basis gets absorbed into cells that end up functioning poorly and get diseased more easily
lack of saturated fat and cholesterol also causes issues, a healthy cell wall is 50% saturated fat with cholesterol in there as welll
people in the tropics on natural diets eat a lot of higher quality fat with saturated fat, you can find polynesians running around in the islands without shirts on in the sun with no skin problems
"sun spots" those big brown spots on old peoples skin that develop are oxidised fat in the cells. they have been reversed in a mate of mine when he started eating a lot of coconut fat, (saturated) and full fat diary.... and reduced his polyunsaturated fats...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/new ... d=10863929

[wayno]

so, arguably you get exposed to the chemicals in raincoats, and you eat a bad diet, you could be more prone to getting sick than if you eat a good diet,, so it could be safe to use my olympus tent with the PVC floor after all as long as i eat reasonably well

[Ent]

Interesting thread as it does highlight that we are dependent on manufacturers and marketers being honest. I respect companies that go the extra mile to fully research and test products. Especially those that when they subsequently discover an issue recall the suspect products.

[wayno]

response to the greenpeace report, from some of the companies who were he subject of the report

http://www.greenbiz.com/news/2012/11/16 ... -chemicals