Another Hilleberg question

[curley]

I am considering buying another Hilleberg and would value some input from those forum members who have had experience with tunnel tents. After reading as much as I can on the topic from this and other forums, I see only one issue that worries me, which is that most users note that these tents flap about in strong wind. One thing I don’t like is the noise of a flapping tent at night when I am trying to sleep!

For background, I should add that I am looking at the Keron 4, to be used for car camping, on the Central Plateau of Tasmania. While this area can experience very strong winds, we would only camp in exposed areas when winds are predicted to be below 20 knots. SO, from all I have read and seen, the Keron would have no problems coping with such winds, even from side on but my question is, would the tent be extremely/excessively noisy? I know this is a very subjective issue but nevertheless would value some input. Over the past 20 years we have car camped in this area in a geodesic tent but sadly, I can’t find a suitable replacement. I have just bought a Staika for backpacking in this area but the interior is too small for longer term holiday camping.

Cheers

Curley

[biggbird]

I'm sure you could find cheaper options for car camping, but hey, it isn't my money! I've spent a few nights out in my Nallo 2 and had no issues with flapping, for what it's worth. Guess it can also be helped by making sure to get a good pitch.

[nq111]

I think the issue is the silnylon sags a bit as it gets wet, and then flaps around. The more common polyurethane treated tents don't stretch anywhere near as much.

Frankly in a good wind all tents flap about a bit. And when it is properly windy the sound of wind 'bullets' hitting the tent will keep you up even in a very taught tent.

20 knots isn't much wind really, so I can't imagine too much noise and no real wind bullets.

Set up well and re-tighten guylines if the nylon stretches and you will be relatively ok. Or carry earplugs.

[ninjapuppet]

I have just bought a Staika for backpacking in this area

A staika just to go backpacking? Nice

If 20 knots equates to just under 40kph, You wont have a problem with excessive noise on a black label Keron. My Nammatj was solid at 40kph

[alanoutgear]

I've had my Nammatj 2 out in very strong winds, and the only time there was a bit of flappy flappy was when I didn't have all the guys out because I was lazy. I always put all the guys out now (what's another 30 seconds anyway) and the tent is stable and silent.

[Orion]

I have a Nallo and remember very clearly at High Moor how much it flapped despite being anchored taut to the platform with every single guypoint and loop available. Meanwhile, the tent next door (a macpac?) was rock solid in the wind. The difference, I believe, was its three poles versus the Nallo's two. But there is a difference in weight as well.

[Joomy]

Kerons are used regularly on the Antarctic plateau. I know this doesn't directly address the noise issue but since loose fabric that causes fabric is always undesirable one would assume it is a very, very solid tent.

[curley]

Many thanks for the input so far. While some may feel the keron is a bit of overkill for car camping, I like to know that no matter what is thrown at us, we will be fine. After all, who wants to wake up in the morning with water in the tent or be sitting there all night wondering if the tent will be OK in the wind/rain. When we go on our tassie trip, it is 2 months in a tent. If the weather goes bad (which isn't that often in Dec/Jan), we have to sit it out and can't return home because we are wet and cold. I have always used a high quality tent while car camping and, to date, have never been caught out (and I hope it stays that way).

Regarding the Staika, I would have preferred the Allak (as I have to carry it) but my wife (and hiking partner) insisted that size matters and so we went with the slightly larger (and heavier) tent. Because we will use this tent on fly fishing expeditions to the Western Lakes, distances aren't great so I am sure (?) I will cope, even at 57. I put up the Staika yesterday, in 25 degrees, full sun (Brisbane), and I am pretty sure it will be a very snug place to retire after a day of walking and fishing. Also very impressed with the features.....definitely 5 star accommodation. Can't wait for December when we head south.

Cheers

Curley

[Orion]

Car camping? I missed that part. If I were you I'd buy a cheaper tent for that purpose. A tent can be tough and still inexpensive by being heavier. A big part of the cost of Hilleberg is strength while still being light and packable, something you don't usually need for car camping.

Even in the unlikely event that your tent leaks, so what? You have a car.

I often feel that our Nallo is overkill for the conditions of Tasmania in late December through mid-February, the only months I've been there. When we were camped in the blowing rain at High Moor there was another party there with a Sierra Designs Flashlight, doing just fine.

[Onestepmore]

I take our cheapie tents car camping, and the 'good ones' when we go out with packs.

[Joomy]

Forget the Keron, for twice as much you could get an Atlas! (And again as much for the inner tent but whatever)

[curley]

Just a little concerned by nq111's comment that Sinylon sags when it gets wet. So I would like to ask those who have a Hilleberg tunnel tent, is it necessary to re-tension several times a day (as the tent dries, then gets wet again from rain or dew) to compensate for this effect? Also, does the tent sag when temps drop at night (even without rain)?

Last year I thought I had solved my car camping problem with a Marmot Asgard 3P. This is a geodesic with what I thought were excellent specs. However, the fly, caused grief because it stretched when wet. It also stretched when temps got low (below about 6c), presumably something to do with the dew point. Anyway, it stretched so much that there was insufficient scope to fully tension. Then, when it dried out during the day, it was as tight as a drum, which worried me a lot and so I had to release it during the day and tighten it up again at night.....and even then it sagged. The fly was 40d 100% Nylon Ripstop, Silicon / PU, 5,000 mm. To cut a long story short, I returned it to the retailer (UK based) and was given a full refund. Because of this experience, I am a little paranoid about stretching/sagging tent flys.

And thanks to Joomy for pointing out the Atlas. Strangely enough, I have never gone this far in the Hille website. Pretty sure we don't need this much space.

AND....if anybody can suggest a cheapie tent (with inner 2000mm wide and 2200mm long, NO mesh walls, 100% waterproof and good in wind) I would be very grateful.

Cheers

Curley

[ninjapuppet]

My exped venus stretches pretty bad. I have used it several times since this report and it has stretched every time condensation builds up.
check out how in the middle of the tent, the outer sags enough to touch the inner.
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9029&p=120239&hilit#p119856



... BUT, it doesnt really worry me.
Hilleberg kerlon 1800 wont stretch like these ultralight tents.

[curley]

That's serious sag! Our Asgard was just as bad although being a geodesic, the poles supported it a bit better.

[DannyS]

My exped venus stretches pretty bad. I have used it several times since this report and it has stretched every time condensation builds up.
check out how in the middle of the tent, the outer sags enough to touch the inner.
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9029&p=120239&hilit#p119856



... BUT, it doesnt really worry me.
Hilleberg kerlon 1800 wont stretch like these ultralight tents.

Wow that's some pretty serious sagging there, I considered purchasing one of these a while back, I checked through reviews but never heard any problems like this? Is this a common problem with this model?

[Giddy_up]

My exped venus stretches pretty bad. I have used it several times since this report and it has stretched every time condensation builds up.
check out how in the middle of the tent, the outer sags enough to touch the inner.
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9029&p=120239&hilit#p119856



... BUT, it doesnt really worry me.
Hilleberg kerlon 1800 wont stretch like these ultralight tents.

Hi ninjapuppet,

I just looked at your picture and that tent is not set up properly. Your cross pole has no tension on it as you can see the webbing leaving the pole at about a 30 degree angle. If it was tight you would remove a lot of that sag, if not all.

See my pics. Same tent but set up with everything taut and its fine. These pics are after some serious rain, I can't remember how much but it was inches of rain not a shower.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[DannyS]

My exped venus stretches pretty bad. I have used it several times since this report and it has stretched every time condensation builds up.
check out how in the middle of the tent, the outer sags enough to touch the inner.
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9029&p=120239&hilit#p119856



... BUT, it doesnt really worry me.
Hilleberg kerlon 1800 wont stretch like these ultralight tents.

Hi ninjapuppet,

I just looked at your picture and that tent is not set up properly. Your cross pole has no tension on it as you can see the webbing leaving the pole at about a 30 degree angle. If it was tight you would remove a lot of that sag, if not all.

See my pics. Same tent but set up with everything taut and its fine. These pics are after some serious rain, I can't remember how much but it was inches of rain not a shower.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

Thanks Giddy_up, that's good to know.

[ninjapuppet]

yes, that was a bad setup as it was my first time with the tent. When it was set up the previous night, there was no touching between the inner and outer.
I now always tension the cross poles fully like yours too but still do notice abit of stretch in the mornings compared to the previous night.

All it takes is a couple of yanks at the guy outs and problem solved.

Ive had an exped Orion (heavyweight version) and this Venus (UL version) and both are very high quality but I do notice the UL version stretches more than the standard or heavyweight versions.
Considering how many Hilleberg threads there are, I think Exped tents deserve their own thread too.

[DannyS]

yes, that was a bad setup as it was my first time with the tent. When it was set up the previous night, there was no touching between the inner and outer.
I now always tension the cross poles fully like yours too but still do notice abit of stretch in the mornings compared to the previous night.

All it takes is a couple of yanks at the guy outs and problem solved.

Ive had an exped Orion (heavyweight version) and this Venus (UL version) and both are very high quality but I do notice the UL version stretches more than the standard or heavyweight versions.
Considering how many Hilleberg threads there are, I think Exped tents deserve their own thread too.

I agree, I've owned a couple of Exped tents and found them to be well designed and decent build quality.

[Giddy_up]

I think a few people are getting them now as a viable alternative to the Hilleberg's. I can't fault mine at all and it affords you so much room and comfort with double vestibules. My one wish is that Exped would make this exact tent in a one man option. That would bring the weight down under 2kgs I think and would be more generous in length and height than a Soulo and have to vestibules. The Venus tents handle snow and wind very well and are very user friendly and set up in 2 minutes or so.

One thing I have noticed, which I think is a considerable difference between the Venus and the Hillebergs is the pole sleeve. On the Exped the sleeve is carried under the fly which means that in high wind it does not have a little sail of silnylon sticking up in the air getting buffeted. Makes for a much cleaner line and a quieter tent, it also lets snow slide off or over as well. Still gives you integral pitch, just neater I think.

All in all, just good design.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[Joomy]

Just a little concerned by nq111's comment that Sinylon sags when it gets wet. So I would like to ask those who have a Hilleberg tunnel tent, is it necessary to re-tension several times a day (as the tent dries, then gets wet again from rain or dew) to compensate for this effect? Also, does the tent sag when temps drop at night (even without rain)?

Last year I thought I had solved my car camping problem with a Marmot Asgard 3P. This is a geodesic with what I thought were excellent specs. However, the fly, caused grief because it stretched when wet. It also stretched when temps got low (below about 6c), presumably something to do with the dew point. Anyway, it stretched so much that there was insufficient scope to fully tension. Then, when it dried out during the day, it was as tight as a drum, which worried me a lot and so I had to release it during the day and tighten it up again at night.....and even then it sagged. The fly was 40d 100% Nylon Ripstop, Silicon / PU, 5,000 mm. To cut a long story short, I returned it to the retailer (UK based) and was given a full refund. Because of this experience, I am a little paranoid about stretching/sagging tent flys.

All tent fly fabrics will stretch when wet, with the exception of cuben fibre which does not stretch ever but costs ~4 times as much as sil nylon as is much harder to work with so manufacturing costs go up too.

And thanks to Joomy for pointing out the Atlas. Strangely enough, I have never gone this far in the Hille website. Pretty sure we don't need this much space.

I was being slightly cheeky =D but it is an awesome tent. Perfect for a base camp if you can justify it.

AND....if anybody can suggest a cheapie tent (with inner 2000mm wide and 2200mm long, NO mesh walls, 100% waterproof and good in wind) I would be very grateful.

Cheers

Curley

Depends what you mean by cheap. That's a huge floor for a tent and that's going to drive up the price, especially for something 4-season worthy. There are plenty that are cheaper than a Keron 4 though. Off the top of my head there's the Tarptent Hogback, Nemo Asashi, Hilleberg Nallo 4, Black Diamond Vista (tapers but very wide at the top and very long). Any of those would do the trick but none of them are cheap per se, probably at least $500.

[DannyS]

What about a Marmot Thor 3P tent? I saw one of those selling on BPL forum brand new for $350. With shipping your probably looking at around $420?

[Strider]

What about a Marmot Thor 3P tent? I saw one of those selling on BPL forum brand new for $350. With shipping your probably looking at around $420?

At nearly 5kg you would need 3 people just to spread the weight!

[DannyS]

What about a Marmot Thor 3P tent? I saw one of those selling on BPL forum brand new for $350. With shipping your probably looking at around $420?

At nearly 5kg you would need 3 people just to spread the weight!

In the original post curley suggested that he was looking at the Keron 4 which is a 4.6kg tent, the Thor 3P is only 300grams heavier and costs nearly $500 less.

[curley]

Regarding the Exped Venus, from their website, the orange fly is the Venus II which has a PU coated polyester fly. If the green Venus is the Venus II ultra light version the fly is 15 D ripstop nylon, PU / silicone coated. My understanding is that polyester doesn't stretch much at all compared with nylon. The coatings are also probably relevant.

Thanks to others for the various suggestions. I have excluded the Thor, based on my experience with Marmot tents (see above). The fly has poorer specs than the Asgard. Otherwise it would be OK.

[Giddy_up]

Regarding the Exped Venus, from their website, the orange fly is the Venus II which has a PU coated polyester fly. If the green Venus is the Venus II ultra light version the fly is 15 D ripstop nylon, PU / silicone coated. My understanding is that polyester doesn't stretch much at all compared with nylon. The coatings are also probably relevant.

Thanks to others for the various suggestions. I have excluded the Thor, based on my experience with Marmot tents (see above). The fly has poorer specs than the Asgard. Otherwise it would be OK.

Hi Curley, they make three tents under the Venus name. The ultralight-silnylon 15D, The extreme-silnylon 40D and the the plain Venus which is 40D polyester.

I've never had a problem with sag and if you look at my pictures its not even guyed out, just pegs in the centre point along the sides and one each side for the vestibule.

A tent that could be worth looking at is the Exped Orion. It's crossing pole goes all the way to the ground and makes it fully freestanding. It also has some of the highest headroom I have ever seen in a two man tent.

Cheers
G_U


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[ninjapuppet]

Curley, been trying to send you a PM but it doesnt seem to be working

FYI
theres a keron 4 GT going for $750 at the yard sale on cascade climbers.
I just posted 15kg of tents back to australia for $134 with TNT express (via shipito)

[Joomy]

Great price. Buy it! Then lend it me.

[Don R]

Thought about a Macpac Minaret ? On sale (frequently) at around $500, weighs in at 2.5Kg or less, bomb proof, a little cramped for two by some standards. Mine has done great work in Tas, NZ, Patagonia etc. No flapping, no leaking, in very poor conditions in Western Arthurs, Mt Aspiring NP or Torres del Paine.