camping in cold weather

[Strider]

Are your tents suitable for the "mountains"?

[ErichFromm]

Agree with most of the comments here. I've been using a rather crappy bag for years - gaps in the down so big you can see through the bag in points. Have camped in the snow (tent on top in most cases), down to about -3, and made up difference in insulation through a good down jacket and multiple merino and polypro. It's all about layers! Not the most comfortable sleep, but got through it. As people have said - no use taking an extra bag or clothes if it's a squeeze as your bag needs to loft to work.

Sad to hear about the thermolite as was planning to get one at some point....

[GPSGuided]

* have a good (both quality and quantity) meal before going to bed. Digestion releases heat from within.
* heat some water and turn your water bottle into a hot water bottle. Perhaps wrap it in towel/spare jumper to prevent direct skin contact between 80C water bottle and skin.

These sounded more like survival measures than a pleasant weekend camp out.

[Moondog55]

The Thermolite is only a millimeter and/or a half mm thick from memory so really that's all the insulation it's adding, I assume its main benefit is filling any voids in the sleeping bags interior.

[Moondog55]

Just listed on eveil baye

Good warm bags are not necessarily expensive although the definition of expensive is relative to disposable income

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CUMULUS-down ... 1357875207

[wayno]

Just listed on eveil baye

Good warm bags are not necessarily expensive although the definition of expensive is relative to disposable income

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CUMULUS-down ... 1357875207

teh only question about a bag like that is will it be too hot. little doubt about it being warm in winter. but you might cook in anything but sib zero temps, but you've already got cooler bags.... if you think you'll gtet the use out of it, that bag has great specs. has some of the best materials in it...

[Strider]

Just listed on eveil baye

Good warm bags are not necessarily expensive although the definition of expensive is relative to disposable income

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CUMULUS-down ... 1357875207

There are much better options than this available, and cheaper too. It really.isn't worth the extra cost to purchase in Australia.

If I was shopping around this price point (and soon will be) I would be looking at a Enlightened Equipment Revelation X quilt.

[wayno]

review of the revelation
it says here the difference between the revleation and the Revelation X, which has the same design as the Revelation but uses a cosmetic 2nd ripstop. That bag costs less than $200!

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultraligh ... Revelation

[GPSGuided]

Good warm bags are not necessarily expensive although the definition of expensive is relative to disposable income

"Expensive" is indeed relative, one person vs gearing up for a family! Never thought I'd accumulate so many bags in the household and the financial resources that went into them. It's ridiculous!!!

[polas]

they say this add +14 celsius:
http://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/sea-to- ... r/areactex
are they really that good?

No they are not! I have often privately fumed at this product. It's borderline irresponsible to claim that a thin piece of polypropylene/polyester fleece can add "up to" 14 degrees C! It might add 14C if the ambient temperature is +22C, i.e. it could be enough alone for a pleasantly warm night but no way is it going to be warm enough to push +10 bags down to +1. And it would be dangerous to try. That said, bags that are only comfortable to +10 are not 3 season. That's 2 season territory there. 3 season bags should be warm enough down to 0C with extra layers (for an adult male anyway). What sort of mats are you guys using? Are they adequately insulated? If you're cold at 10C with 3 season bags maybe you are losing heat to the ground without knowing.

Certainly taking 2 sleeping bags each should do the trick for a significant weight penalty (as long as they are reasonably warm, but even two summer weight bags should be able to add 10C to your sleep system). But as you say if an extra 1kg each is tolerable then that is the best solution short of buying new gear.

thanks Joomy for the liner review. I read similar comments on-line. It is a pity they are allowed to mis-advertise products that way.
we use thickish (I think 10mm) closed cell mats. I was never cold from the bottom. I'm pretty sure the mat is good enough.

4 season sleeping bags are around 2kg. The bags we have are around 1kg so the total weight (two bags per person) is the same. Space in the backpack shouldn't be a problem.
The reason I'm reluctant to buy new gear is that cheaper 4 season bags are still over $100 and I have no idea if they can be trusted (extreme rating etc) and I may end up spending $$$ and still be cold at the end anyway. Investing in better 4 season bags is $200+ (and I need two) is way too much for one off use every a few years. It hasn't been this cold on our hikes ever before and we do not hike overnight in winter.

thank you!
Pawel

[polas]

Just listed on eveil baye

Good warm bags are not necessarily expensive although the definition of expensive is relative to disposable income

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CUMULUS-down ... 1357875207

$350 x 2 = $700
for a two day hike... I can fly for that to hamilton island

we are geared for usual spring/autumn conditions here. It is just this sudden freak drop of temperature this year that is messing our plans.

[polas]

Are your tents suitable for the "mountains"?

to be honest I have no idea. we have black wolf mantis 2. I don't remember seeing any season/temperature ratings for it.

http://www.blackwolf.com.au/product/Man ... ategory/22

[GPSGuided]

Investing in better 4 season bags is $200+ (and I need two) is way too much for one off use every a few years. It hasn't been this cold on our hikes ever before and we do not hike overnight in winter.

Perfectly understandable. Another solution is to hunt secondhand and then re-sell after your use. The in and out cost would be minimal but you'll be served well on the trip. Plenty of people do this both here and out there. The only problem is, there's little time for you to find 2 quality warm secondhand bags before your trip. You may get lucky though.

[wayno]

find somewhere that will rent the bags to you

[GPSGuided]

find somewhere that will rent the bags to you

This one sounded decent on price. Not sure of the quality of the bag. Could be bulky and heavy.
http://www.sydneycampertrailer.com.au/c ... hp#Bedding

[wayno]

looking at the stitching on the bag, it doesnt go right across. so its just there to hold synthetic fill in place. a zero degree synthetic bag will be bulky and on the heavy side.

[Strider]

Are your tents suitable for the "mountains"?

to be honest I have no idea. we have black wolf mantis 2. I don't remember seeing any season/temperature ratings for it.

http://www.blackwolf.com.au/product/Man ... ategory/22

Yep all good. I was worried for a second there you might have a couple of those $20 Anaconda specials!

[Scottyk]

* have a good (both quality and quantity) meal before going to bed. Digestion releases heat from within.
* heat some water and turn your water bottle into a hot water bottle. Perhaps wrap it in towel/spare jumper to prevent direct skin contact between 80C water bottle and skin.

These sounded more like survival measures than a pleasant weekend camp out.

Yeah I would say the hot water bottle thing is asking for trouble, having a bottle of boiling water in bed with you, no thanks. Proper hot water bottles are made for the purpose, drinking bottles aren't.

The answer to all of this is rather simple, wear some clothes to bed, if that doesn't work then get a better sleeping bag and mat

[polas]

Are your tents suitable for the "mountains"?

to be honest I have no idea. we have black wolf mantis 2. I don't remember seeing any season/temperature ratings for it.

http://www.blackwolf.com.au/product/Man ... ategory/22

Yep all good. I was worried for a second there you might have a couple of those $20 Anaconda specials!

LOL.
we are usually well prepared for normal weather conditions here.

[Moondog55]

I dunno. I've done the hot water in a drinking bottle quite a few times, it's the main reason I always carry a SS bottle as well as the others. it can make a difference if caught in a sudden weather change and you only have minimum gear. Not that I usually travel with absolute minimum but my summer bag is only good to about 14C and too tight to wear a down jacket inside it.
polas it all depends on what you consider "Normal" LOL quite a few of us are winter campers and normal is well below freezing. I camp seldom in summer, too many flys, mossies and touristas

[GPSGuided]

I dunno. I've done the hot water in a drinking bottle quite a few times, it's the main reason I always carry a SS bottle as well as the others. it can make a difference if caught in a sudden weather change and you only have minimum gear.

Yep, as suggested earlier, more of a survival technique than a pre-planned pleasant weekend away. Thanks for the confirmation.

Otherwise I note that Nalgenes are good for boiling water and this is a recognised use. Just make sure the cap is screwed back on tight. No accident in the bag, thank you!

[Joomy]

4 season sleeping bags are around 2kg. The bags we have are around 1kg so the total weight (two bags per person) is the same.

Expedition bags for Everest and the poles are 2kg. A 4-season bag for Aussie conditions can be under 1kg, certainly no more than 1.5kg.

The reason I'm reluctant to buy new gear is that cheaper 4 season bags are still over $100 and I have no idea if they can be trusted (extreme rating etc) and I may end up spending $$$ and still be cold at the end anyway. Investing in better 4 season bags is $200+ (and I need two) is way too much for one off use every a few years. It hasn't been this cold on our hikes ever before and we do not hike overnight in winter.

But maybe you would hike in winter if you had the gear for it? But yes buying two new warm bags for a single trip is a luxury few can afford. Sleeping bag ratings should be fairly trustworthy as long as you know what you are looking at. Most people will find a bag comfortable somewhere between the "comfort" and "limit of comfort" "EN" ratings if they are supplied. If they are not supplied you can generally assume that whatever rating the bag has is comparable to the "limit of comfort" rating on an EN rated bag. A bag that is rated to 0C but is barely warm enough for 10C is either mislabelled or faulty -- I would probably return it.

[Moondog55]

Except that I would say a "Cheaper" or "Cheap" bag is more likely to use the extreme rating than the comfort rating, so many bags on ebay for instance advertise as being good to -5 with names like "Arctic Special" etc; but when you read the actual description you realise that it totally unbelievable, it simply isn't possible to make a sleeping bag for those temperatures and retail it at a profit when selling for $50-
There is usually a 20 degree difference between comfort and extreme temperature ratings so a cheap bag rated at -5 will only be comfortable at 15C or thereabouts, even some well known brands do this.

[wayno]

i've got an old fairydown everest bag that was rated to minus 25 when i bought it, back in the eighties bags only seemed to give one temp rating,,, i'd been to a few degrees below zero in it, not more than minus ten but after that , i realised I'd probably just be alive at minus twenty five without a decent amount of clothing.... minus 25 was probably the survival rating of the bag..