Tarptent quality?

[slparker]

Just set up a new TT double moment. Nice day small breeze. Even followed the instructions...

3 seams ripped in non critical areas, the pvc loop holding the front stays and 2 seams holding fiddly plastic clips on.

I'm somewhat surprised, I have to say. Given the alleged craftsmanship of these things... And no I didn't force anything.
On the positive side it stayed up, is a great design with excellent ventilation and Is very roomy.

Can't wait to take it up to Bogong in a couple of weeks time. Watch the news for the helicopter rescue.

Sarcasm aside should I hope that nothing critical rips or return it and buy a new Mont instead?

[north-north-west]

I'd get on to TT directly immediately and let them know. They do have some of warranty. Maybe borrow something until you can get the issue sorted? I certainly wouldn't be comfortable going out with a tent that did that on a test pitch.

[slparker]

Yeah, you're right. One of the seams does appear to be at a critical point where the fly tensions.
I've 'fixed' it by attaching the tensioner to a clip but this might be dodgy.

The cost of sending the tent back and forth might not be worth the bother, unless they pay for the postage.

I think I'll contact them, ask for a refund and suck up the postage cost and chalk it up to experience if they won't pay it. If I could work out how to attach photos from my iPad I'd show the issues. I have it draped over my table and can only find two failed seams so maybe I was being a bit hysterical....

[slparker]

I emailed Franco for advice - he is still listed as the Aust contact.
Word on the internet is that TT have good customer service so I'll wait and see.

Might be a solo trip to bogong in the Akto, rather than two of us in the new TT.

[photohiker]

If I could work out how to attach photos from my iPad I'd show the issues.

In Safari, go to http://www.postimage.org

Click the 'Browse' button.

Select from your photo library or take a photo. Select 'done' at the top of the screen.

Select the resize drop down item and select 800x600 or 1024x768. Select "Family Safe" then select "Upload it"

Once the photo is uploaded touch the 'copy to clipboard' next to one of the 'Thumbnail for forums' items and paste it into your forum post.

Takes less time to do than to type the instructions. lol.

Also, PM Franco.

[kitty]

As per NNW ... yes go direct to TT and Franco. I have used 3 TT tents including 1 second hand one and none have had any defects.

[Franco]

Hi,
I sent you a reply to the TT E Mail .
Unusual but it does happen.
We will keep the forum informed once TT USA has had the opportunity to look into it.

[slparker]

Thanks to Franco for a quick reply. Hope to fix the 3 main issues (excluding user error!) soon.

[slparker]

one of the end tensioners doesn't hold well under tension either... I think this was a friday arvo tent.

On the plus side franco has replied quickly to my concerns.

Stay pocket that has ripped:

ripped stay pocket

Lateral tension adjustment loop ripped free:

what appears to be a ripped loop for holding the lateral tensioner

broken loop.jpg (75.97 KiB) Viewed 16957 times

[slparker]

Update:

Henry Shires at tarptent sent me some replacement bits for the tent which were a quick cheap repair by a local seamstress.

The tensioning problem has been fixed by replacing the axial tensioning cord with a thicker version. Why the tent didn't come with a cord and tensioner that worked is another question.....

i have taken the double Moment out for a couple of nights in the high country and I am generally happy with it. another tape strap has broken on the tent (holding the triangular stanchion at the end) which doesn't fill me with excitement about longevity but it stood up to a windy evening ok. The broken tape doesn't seem to limit the function of the tent. Doesn't seem to be much point replacing or repairing the strap as it won't get any stronger.

As expected (and as i was after) it's a cool, breezy, lightweight tent which should be a bonus in warmer conditions.

[GPSGuided]

How did the tape strap break? In the material or at stitching?

[slparker]

How did the tape strap break? In the material or at stitching?

In the material itself. The webbing strap separated midpoint. never seen anything like it, to be honest, webbing is pretty strong - even the lightweight tape the TT has. Mind you another tape section also failed - which I had repaired. I thought at the time that it must have been stitching, but now I'm thinking that TT may have bought some dud webbing.

To be honest I think that it is a good tent design but i have had a few problems with quality assurance.

[DanShell]

If your not happy with it get it exchanged. They back the product, Im sure they wouldn't be happy that your not happy.

[Franco]

I suspect that at some point all tent manufacturer end up getting some undetected sub-standard components , after all even Toyota with all its might does.
(yes, I know, they don't make tents...)
I am not aware of problems with our webbing material but there can be several reason why something fail.
For example the pole pocket in the photo above looks to me that had the stitching done too close to the edge of the material.
Not good but the same guy would have done that job to 50 to 100 shelters within a a few days and (hopeful...) only failed that particular one. (sorry)

One problem we had was with cordage. The so called 3mm reflecting cloth coated Dyneema cord we still use , is now closer to 2mm therefore it can slip with some angles from the LineLoc. (it's the same type sold as TripTease)
Soon that will change.
In fact all of the materials we use are not unique to us, so our silnylon, Easton poles, Easton pegs, Dyneema cords, Delrin bits (hooks, line Loc ,rings) are well known and not cheap, but stuff happens...
For about two years now we have had a guy that pretty much only sources and tests the components we use, so we are trying.

On a lighter note :
one of the ladies working at TT Nevada City is , like the rest, an avid hiker and a cartoonist too.
One of hers :

Known on the trail as Boots.

[slparker]

One problem we had was with cordage. The so called 3mm reflecting cloth coated Dyneema cord we still use , is now closer to 2mm therefore it can slip with some angles from the LineLoc. (it's the same type sold as TripTease)
Soon that will change.

But at the moment Tarptent are selling tents that cannot be tensioned along the ridge line. what concerns me is that they know that, you know that and the company are still happy to keep selling tents that require customer modification to make work.

[Strider]

One problem we had was with cordage. The so called 3mm reflecting cloth coated Dyneema cord we still use , is now closer to 2mm therefore it can slip with some angles from the LineLoc. (it's the same type sold as TripTease)
Soon that will change.

But at the moment Tarptent are selling tents that cannot be tensioned along the ridge line. what concerns me is that they know that, you know that and the company are still happy to keep selling tents that require customer modification to make work.

Which model are you referring to?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[slparker]

Double moment.

It works fine by replacing the line with larger diameter cordage. I figured it was a one-off except Franco stated that it is a known problem.

[Franco]

SlParker ,
this was my comment :
"The so called 3mm reflecting cloth coated Dyneema cord we still use , is now closer to 2mm therefore it can slip with some angles from the LineLoc. (it's the same type sold as TripTease)"

I thought that it would be clear enough that I was describing something that can happen not something that always or often happens.
If the problem was common enough we would have the forums flooded with negative comments from users of tents that have the TripTease/LineLoc combo on them and there are several brands as well as DIY users with that combo.
BTW, I have used a few tents with that combo myself without any problem.

[Chezza]

The issues with the lineloc cord has been reported for a while. I note that MLD and HMG use 3mm cord and not 2mm.

It isn't something everyone will notice, because the cord has to be wet and under quite a lot of tension to slip. Not everyone pitches their tent that taut, as evidenced by dramatic variation in people's experiences with the Stratospire.

Not that long ago I broke two out of the four pitchlock struts on my SS2, partly because I was being very heavy-handed and a little stupid, and partly because the design leaves a bending moment in the bottom part of the struts and TT use pultruded CF rods that are prone to splintering. The 2mm cord always slipped for me when it rained, sometimes very suddenly and dramatically - I'd hear a pop and suddenly the whole shelter was sagging.

[slparker]

The issues with the lineloc cord has been reported for a while. I note that MLD and HMG use 3mm cord and not 2mm.

It's pretty easy to erect the tent, check it and change the cord in the factory, that's my issue with TT. If it's a known problem why not check the tents that are made with the old cordage before selling them and letting the customer discover the problem?

At the end of the day it's a minor issue with a good tent but the quality control from the company is not what I expected.

[GPSGuided]

Just change the cord or the lock! Isn't that what buyers of cottage equipments like to do, to customise here and there? Up the cord diameter and one would bet there'll be another group of weightweenies who'll be up in arms complaining about the incessant weight gain.

[slparker]

Just change the cord or the lock! Isn't that what buyers of cottage equipments like to do, to customise here and there? Up the cord diameter and one would bet there'll be another group of weightweenies who'll be up in arms complaining about the incessant weight gain.

I did change the cord. That's my point: the old cord did not provide sufficient friction in the lock. It wasn't customisation: it's making something that didn't work, work. Customisation is putting two more tie-outs on the tent - which i did. But I made no complaint about that because that is the customisation one expects, and welcomes, in a cottage industry tent.

Anyway, it doesn't matter how light cordage is if it doesn't provide the necessary friction. it'd be like drilling holes in a gore-tex jacket to save weight.


The tent works. i am happy with its function. I've described some of the problems i have had with the tent. It is fixed now but i thought that i would mention to prospective buyers some of the QA issues that they may encounter.

[Strider]

I note that MLD and HMG use 3mm cord and not 2mm.

Triptease is also specified as 3mm, but the true diameter seems nowhere near that.

[GPSGuided]

I agree with you slparker and it indeed is a good thing that you voice out on these issues. However, knowing how product development works, and the bigger the business the harder it becomes, that it's just not possible to change a spec whenever a small group of users voice out. Given what I have seen of Tarptent, I think they are a responsible lot and do diligently review issues. On this, I think it's registered and until they can verify the significance of the issue as well as the root cause, we'll just have to wait. For all we know, it could well be a batch issue too from the various relevant components. Further, immediate change of spec will have a whole bunch of consequences, from weight to cost to inventory. Much easier for the few affected users to change the cord. Maybe next year's version will have the change you want, who knows until that time.

[slparker]

I agree with you slparker and it indeed is a good thing that you voice out on these issues. However, knowing how product development works, and the bigger the business the harder it becomes, that it's just not possible to change a spec whenever a small group of users voice out. Given what I have seen of Tarptent, I think they are a responsible lot and do diligently review issues. On this, I think it's registered and until they can verify the significance of the issue as well as the root cause, we'll just have to wait. For all we know, it could well be a batch issue too from the various relevant components. Further, immediate change of spec will have a whole bunch of consequences, from weight to cost to inventory. Much easier for the few affected users to change the cord. Maybe next year's version will have the change you want, who knows until that time.

I don't buy that this is a case of customer preference for different design. It is customer preference for a product that actually works when you open the packet.

This is a case of the tent not being erected in the factory before being packaged for sale: which is poor QA.

[GPSGuided]

If one nitpicks, every product has faults, or we'd all be in nirvana and have the perfect equipment that'll never require an update. Patience, I'm sure Tarptent will make the necessary improvement. As you said, the slip happens when wet and highly tensioned. So in the meantime, how about lower the tension a bit and see if it still slips?

Back to product development, QA is one of those expensive steps in product development cycle. The more conditions one tests, the more it costs, often for minuscule gains apart from that elusive 'quality' word. This is one of those areas where I expect a lot more from a large corporation with a fat research budget and far less so with these small cottage operations. Better to provide the feedback and find a cheap and effective solution and continue to enjoy the product for what's it worth.

[slparker]

If one nitpicks, every product has faults

It's not nitpicking: the tent didn't tension along the ridgeline causing sagging. The lock would slip in moderate tension over time making the tent ridgeline sag - even in still, warm dry conditions in my backyard. I'm not making this up and I have put up a tent before.

As you said, the slip happens when wet and highly tensioned.

it happened in the dry when tensioning sufficiently to make the tent taut 9as per the enclosed instructions). I never mentioned anything about it happening in the wet, that might well be worse as friction would decrease even further. Only happening in the wet would be worse: imagine finding out at 1800m in a storm that your tent loses tension in the rain...

So in the meantime, how about lower the tension a bit and see if it still slips?

I've replaced the cord with one that works and the tent can now be sufficiently tensioned to make the ridgeline taut. I replaced the cord because the tent could not be tensioned even with lowering the tension 'a little bit'.

QA is one of those expensive steps in product development cycle.

5 minutes to put up a tent is the factory is not expensive QA - especially given a known issue with the product. its arrogant to expect the customer to do this for you whatever the cottage nature of the industry, but especially in a product designed to protect one from the vagaries of nature.

if they had chucked in a 50c piece of 3mm cord and a note that said 'product may be defective but we cannot be bothered checking our work can you do it for us? I wouldn't have been so surprised.

[GPSGuided]

Ok, if it slips in the dry and under moderate tension, then there's a clear defect. Was the line worn? Was the line 'dirty'? Did it happen new? Or developed over time? I have not encountered any issue with my TT and Franco was suggesting the complaint has been very limited. Curious.

[slparker]

Ok, if it slips in the dry and under moderate tension, then there's a clear defect. Was the line worn? Was the line 'dirty'? Did it happen new? Or developed over time? I have not encountered any issue with my TT and Franco was suggesting the complaint has been very limited. Curious.

It happened when i first set the tent up when the tent was new. If the line was contaminated than this happened in the factory.

The tent is functioning fine now, except for the webbing breakage at the strut. henry assures me that this is probably not related to the webbing strength. I noticed the torn webbing after setting up on the Bogong high plains. I have no idea how it happened but it is possible that the webbing rubbed against an aluminum tentpeg in the bag when being carried. Although it is implausible that this would cut through webbing I cannot attribute this solely to the tent manufacture so I've tied a knot in the webbing and we'll see how we go.

It is a good tent design, light simple and breezy- The fly and inner have been fine it is just the fittings that I have had trouble with.

[Chezza]

I note that MLD and HMG use 3mm cord and not 2mm.

Triptease is also specified as 3mm, but the true diameter seems nowhere near that.

Triptease seems to have been made in a few different sizes. I can tell the difference between 3mm and 2mm by eye. Anyway, it's not a big deal to replace the line, but TT should have changed their cord ages ago, rather than letting some customers find out the hard way.

On a positive note:

MLD Duomid Sil: USD 260
MLD Supermid Sil: USD 385

Both come with guyline (of the right diameter) shipped loose, you're expected to install it. No inner tents in those prices.

TT SS2: USD 349

This tent comes with an inner, the above two do not. It also features a lot more stitching. And, as with all of Henry's stuff, it's a very clever design. The value for money TT offer is without rival.

Where I think TT could really improve is in putting reinforcements at stress points. I have stitch-hole elongation at a number of stress points where tie-out stitching passes through a double layer of 30d sil, and they're all right at the edge of the fabric. I'm going to need to sew in reinforcements to stop the fabric tearing. I do pitch it taut enough to use the poles to swing my 95kg butt in and out of the tent with the shelter barely moving, so maybe I'm overdoing it. Had it in 50kph winds pitched that way and found that there was no perceptible movement in the outer tent.

IMHO, TT should emulate the well known pyramid tent makers when it comes to corner reinforcement. And replace the pitch lock struts with roll wrapped or filament wound tubing, probably 1mm wall thickness instead of the current 0.5mm. Or eliminate the bottom protrusion of the pichlock struts.

Lastly (since we're making requests), add corner linelocs where the elastic loops are, and put in a PU floor instead of silnylon and my SS2 would be near-perfect.