Pack Selection

[swhite]

Searching for a new bushwalking pack to take on a trip to the Main Range and Jagungal region this coming spring or summer.

Current packs are -
1. Old made in NZ Macpac Cascade. Harness rubbers have deteriorated. Served me well and placed the load in the thighs as advertised. This may not be sensible as discussed below.
2. WE Lost World. An awful creation that is made uncomfortable by at least in part, the pack load intentionally spaced away form the user's back. It's never been on a bushwalk and never will be. Also creaked since new, which WE was unable to remedy and they eventually lost interest. This pack will only ever travel to the supermarket, which is ironic given it's name; but as usual, marketing is the opposite of fact.

It seems a logical first step in selection is to consider the frame and therefore load placement.

I have read rcaffin's pack pages - https://bushwalkingnsw.org.au/clubsites ... _Packs.htm that endorse an H frame, with the rather challenging caveat "I have also found that many people, especially females, don't seem to be able to carry an H-frame very successfully. But it works for me." Hmm.

These pages endorsed carrying as much load as possible between the shoulders (https://bushwalkingnsw.org.au/clubsites ... Theory.htm), which makes sense, but I don't think explained why an H frame does this, and why an internal frame probably doesn't?

I've listed packs below with some comments about load placement -
1. Summit Gear: Looks like a total failure placing load low (https://summitgear.com.au/products/summ ... ack-canvas)
2. Macpac Cascade: Who knows? As per usual, no info about what the harness design is. I once tried a new Torre on Bogong, and returned it, along with a page of listed design faults, for a full refund immediately after. (https://www.macpac.com.au/macpac-cascad ... no#start=9)
3. Kelty Trekker 65. Interesting but lacks volume (https://www.kelty.com/trekker-65/)
4. Kelty Glendale. Why so cheap? Made in Asia? And what's the frame design? Who knows? (https://www.kelty.com/glendale-85/)
5. Stone Glacier with a Krux frame. Why is there so much padding and will that space the pack too far away from me? (https://www.stoneglacier.com/collections/hunting-packs)
6. Exo Mountain Gear. Serious price. But again, all that padding and massive belt? (https://exomtngear.com/collections/k4-pack-systems)
7. One Planet. Another placing the load down low, and a mystery harness (https://oneplanet.au/category/packs-and-bags/)
8. Mont. Again, load down low and mystery harness (https://www.mont.com.au/collections/pac ... s-backpack)
and on the list goes.

Has any publication ever tested the load distribution of various packs suitable for a week long trip?

[bearded bushwalker]

If the deteriorated rubbers are the strap sliders on the aluminium frame struts, the Macpac sell new straps for $50 ($40 if a member)
I've replaced my old cascade straps (Qld heat had done a number on the rubber) and the pack is almost as good as new.

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

I don't know of any publication that tests the load distribution in anything other than very vague terms. I agree that getting the load distribution in the right place is key, and it's probably better highish. But it's not always easy to achieve, with any pack. I've never been happy with the various Osprey packs I've owned because everything seems to sag towards the bottom. The only saving grace has been if they have a sleeping bag compartment which at least gives you some scope for distributing the load and getting it to where it works for you. Of the packs you mention the only one I own and use is a Kelty Trekker but that wasn't satisfactory out of the box either because it carried the weight too high! I had to lower the bag on the frame to get it to the point where it was comfortable. The pack I use most frequently now is a 3FUL Yue and I bought it specifically because it has a tapered profile - it's deeper (thicker?) at the top and narrows down at the bottom. I've found it very comfortable but a bit small at 55 litres. You still have to be careful with how you pack it though. If I was buying again I'd look for something with a similar tapered profile. Just my 2 cents worth.

[swhite]

If the deteriorated rubbers are the strap sliders on the aluminium frame struts, the Macpac sell new straps for $50 ($40 if a member)
I've replaced my old cascade straps (Qld heat had done a number on the rubber) and the pack is almost as good as new.

Well I'll be... https://www.macpac.com.au/macpac-quantu ... 13226.html
Thanks bearded bushwalker! Yep, those rubber collars/sliders are now non-existent on my pack; they've literally crumbled into pieces. I'll certainly fix up this! The Cascade will shine again.

Still keen to find a pack that loads the upper and middle of the back rather than the legs though.

[swhite]

I don't know of any publication that tests the load distribution in anything other than very vague terms. I agree that getting the load distribution in the right place is key, and it's probably better highish. But it's not always easy to achieve, with any pack. I've never been happy with the various Osprey packs I've owned because everything seems to sag towards the bottom. The only saving grace has been if they have a sleeping bag compartment which at least gives you some scope for distributing the load and getting it to where it works for you. Of the packs you mention the only one I own and use is a Kelty Trekker but that wasn't satisfactory out of the box either because it carried the weight too high! I had to lower the bag on the frame to get it to the point where it was comfortable. The pack I use most frequently now is a 3FUL Yue and I bought it specifically because it has a tapered profile - it's deeper (thicker?) at the top and narrows down at the bottom. I've found it very comfortable but a bit small at 55 litres. You still have to be careful with how you pack it though. If I was buying again I'd look for something with a similar tapered profile. Just my 2 cents worth.

Loading too low is truly an awful feeling. Any such pack is utterly horrible to carry.
Thanks for the pack feedback Johnno. Yep, I had the same thoughts about a tapered profile. Such a pity that arguably the most important aspect of bushwalking (pack load placement) seems rarely mentioned.

[Moondog55]

Unless you are skiing. For that you do want the load low. You can bend the frame stays on the WE pack to get them closer to your back but the gap is designed to allow airflow for warm weather carrying and the web/mesh section is for stashing your sit-pad.
I've never yet met a pack that was perfect, all packs seem to need personal modifications to suit our individual needs

[swhite]

Unless you are skiing. For that you do want the load low. You can bend the frame stays on the WE pack to get them closer to your back but the gap is designed to allow airflow for warm weather carrying and the web/mesh section is for stashing your sit-pad.
I've never yet met a pack that was perfect, all packs seem to need personal modifications to suit our individual needs

Thanks but I've tried bending the WE pack as described, to no avail. The design seems to place load too far from the body, and might be caused by that ventilation gap, which would be ironic; making the user sweat more increasing effort. Then there's that infernal creak that seems to originate from the inaccessible centre of the harness, probably the crossover of the members. And I missed a front pocket.

The perceived load of a pack seems to be dictated by the centre of gravity in two planes - its distance away from the user's back in the horizontal plane, and its height above the users pelvic bones (vertical plane). Imagine a pack for which this could be varied to suit preference? - that'd be nice. Instead we get marketing terms and obfuscation.

[swhite]

Replacement Quantum harness straps on their way thx BB. Some might consider mine a bit worn...

I could bend in the upper portion of the vertical aluminium bar to put more load on my spine. I know that the closer the Cascade was to my shoulders, the more comfortable I felt.

The pack market is a bit of a sad state now. It needs a similar treatment to that which the helmet industry received from Virginia Tech University - https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle- ... tings.html,
or the bike chain lube industry - https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/

Instead we get this - https://australianhiker.com.au/
Gee, the reviewer can tell me where to buy the product being reviewed! How objective! Nope, no HINT of bias there!

[swhite]

Good advice - https://www.deuter.com/int-en/advice/ho ... a-backpack

[swhite]

Anyone tried a bushwalk while carrying their pack on their front? Maybe we're doing it all wrong?

"If the position of backpack was changed from posterior to anterior, it would help to decrease the cervical extension by about 70–80%."
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... cmVjdCJ9fQ

Sounds like something the frameless UL crowd could try?

Edit - And easy access to snacks!

[WestcoastPete]

Aarn has been promoting the idea for quite a few years.

https://www.aarnpacks.com/en-au

[swhite]

Thx Pete. The video here is interesting: https://www.aarnpacks.com/en-au/collect ... alance-pro
Also note the rear/main pack tapers towards the bottom, seemingly helping to keep mass up high.
Hmm. Lots of straps though. Set of in the morning with click click click click...
Best pack I've seen yet I think. I'll look further into it. At the moment I'm leaning towards (boom tish) using the 1998 Cascade for another 25 years. Material is in perfect condition without a single hole.

[Last]

I have a similarly aged Macpac Torre pack, has been through hell and back. Still in very good condition. Now on it's second new harness. It's comfortable, I'm fairly happy with the pockets, etc. My only complaint is the weight.

[swhite]

I don't think a pack weighing a kg lighter would make much of a difference to how I would feel during a week out walking. All my gear and food at the beginning weigh about 22kg, so for the 1kg lost in a new pack to matter, I'd have to replace the luxurious 1998 Olympus and change some of my wardrobe. Doubt I'd change the sleeping bag or Thermarest.
I think it'd be a wasteful expensive exercise.

[ChrisJHC]

I’ve used my Osprey Aether 70 for 7 - 15 day hikes and been very happy with it.
Obviously it comes down to personal preference!

[swhite]

While replacing the harness straps on my Cascade I found some holes in the area hidden by the belt. Going to send it off to be repaired, but this is adding up -
Straps $40
Postage to from repairer $66 total
Plus repair.

Probably one third the cost of a new Aarn. Hmmm.

[markg]

I have both the EXO 4500 K3 and a Stone Glacier Sky Tallus 6900 ( x curve frame ) packs. Both will carry as much or as little as little as you want easily and very comfortably . These are top tier packs US made. I regularly hump 20-27 kgs in the tallus and slightly less (18kgs) in the 4500. I have carried quite a bit more in both on occasion. Both have great adjustment, made from quality materials, excellent warranties. These packs are expensive, but what is your back worth. Surprised to see either mentioned here as they are primarily for the Hunting fraternity. EXO now has the new K4 series .

[swhite]

You have both Mark!
Have you ever carried a Macpac Cascade, or other "conventional bushwalking pack"? How do these "hunting packs" compare?
Yeah a bit of lateral thinking while searching led me to them.

A couple of days ago I carried home about 30kg in the WE, and while it managed well, it just wasn't comfortable, despite having bent the bars as far forward as I could - the back of my head brushed against the lid. I had so much in the pack that I couldn't even close the pack's mouth. Luckily the lid was able to reach up high enough for some rain protection. While walking I could literally fit a fist between my back and the pack about halfway up. That's how far WE spaced the pack from the user's back. Yeah sure, a drier back, but who wants that load all the way out there? Daft. You're gonna get sweaty humping gear no matter what, so much lost for little gain.
The same day I put on the Cascade and it felt nice and snug, with the load up against me, more controlled, more as one. Does the Stone Glacier or EXO feel like that?

[bernieq]

... a new Aarn. Hmmm.

I bought my 1st Aarn pack in 2009 (Natural Balance) as my very old Lowe Alpine pack had finally died. They are certainly a different experience but it worked well for me. I mostly do multi-day off-track walking, often with serious bush-bashing and about 35 days a year. The front pockets stood up well to the punishment. In 2016, I bought a 2nd Aarn pack, another NB, which had several design enhancements. I doubt I could go back to a standard pack.

The load balancing of the front pockets really does work and the waist belt is shaped to sit over the hip & carry all the weight - very comfortable. Having access, as I walk, to GPS, compass, map, camera, water, scroggin, gloves is just great but also in the front pockets are phone, PLB, billy, mug, gas & burner, knife, 1st aid - so good!

I walk with quite a few people who have made the switch. BTW, putting the pack on is just 2 or 3 clicks (waist belt plus chest/pockets strap which, depending on setup, can be 1 or 2 clicks).

[swhite]

Interesting. Thanks Bernie. Does the Aarn sit up against your back for the full height?

Difficult to choose between an another Cascade, an Aarn, EXO, or Stone Glacier.

Amusing the range of prices is $430 for the Cascade to $1028AU for the EXO K4 3600 (70L). That's a 239% range.

Edit - This is the only Aarn with a 20kg load rating: https://www.aarnpacks.com/collections/a ... alance-pro
The rest are lower..
What makes it "Natural Balance"? What's Pro about it? The image of the harness looks like a bit of a mess.

[swhite]

Another option: Kifaru:
Packs - https://kifaru.net/collections/packs
And you have to buy a frame - https://kifaru.net/collections/frames

Going by US hunting forums, the premium US packs are Kifaru, EXO, and Stone Glacier.
People love the Kifaru but hard to see why from pics.

One thing to note is the inability to bend the carbon fibre beams/rods/members used by these manufacturers.

[bernieq]

Aarn packs were originally designed by Aarn Tate and he was constantly modifying & adapting. He sold the company a few years ago and I've not followed what's happenedsince - but I expect the offerings have stabilised considerably.

Natural Balance was just the model name. Pro didn't exist as an option back then.

[peregrinator]

Aarn packs were originally designed by Aarn Tate and he was constantly modifying & adapting. He sold the company a few years ago and I've not followed what's happened since - but I expect the offerings have stabilised considerably.

Natural Balance was just the model name. Pro didn't exist as an option back then.

Yeah, ignore names. They are just marketing and mean nothing. The only way to know whether an Aarn backpack + front pockets combination will suit you is to get to a shop and try putting them on. There are plenty of sizing options to choose from. E.g. I have a long back length and a small hip-belt and medium pockets. Take your time to get the best fit. Note: I have no affiliation with the company. In fact, until bernieq made that post, I didn't know that Aarn had sold the business.

[matagi]

Interesting. Thanks Bernie. Does the Aarn sit up against your back for the full height?

Difficult to choose between an another Cascade, an Aarn, EXO, or Stone Glacier.

Amusing the range of prices is $430 for the Cascade to $1028AU for the EXO K4 3600 (70L). That's a 239% range.

Edit - This is the only Aarn with a 20kg load rating: https://www.aarnpacks.com/collections/a ... alance-pro
The rest are lower..
What makes it "Natural Balance"? What's Pro about it? The image of the harness looks like a bit of a mess.

"Pro" refers to the fact that it is made from UHMWPE (Dyneema is one brand name). The "non-pro" Aarn packs are made from heavy weight nylon.

Aarn packs have a sprung mesh back to allow airflow, so they don't sit hard against your back as such.

As bernieq said, the balance pockets work really well for load balancing and keeping things within easy reach.

You need to familiarise yourself with the harness system if you get one because if the thing is not adjusted properly it becomes a medieval torture device.

[swhite]

Aarn packs were originally designed by Aarn Tate and he was constantly modifying & adapting. He sold the company a few years ago and I've not followed what's happened since - but I expect the offerings have stabilised considerably.

Natural Balance was just the model name. Pro didn't exist as an option back then.

Yeah, ignore names. They are just marketing and mean nothing. The only way to know whether an Aarn backpack + front pockets combination will suit you is to get to a shop and try putting them on. There are plenty of sizing options to choose from. E.g. I have a long back length and a small hip-belt and medium pockets. Take your time to get the best fit. Note: I have no affiliation with the company. In fact, until bernieq made that post, I didn't know that Aarn had sold the business.

I'm in Adelaide, so trying any pack except the very mainstream is impossible.

Looks like the pack most are happy with is the Kifaru with their new frame: https://kifaru.net/collections/frames
Close to $1500 with frame, pack, and some pockets.

[swhite]

Interesting. Thanks Bernie. Does the Aarn sit up against your back for the full height?

Difficult to choose between an another Cascade, an Aarn, EXO, or Stone Glacier.

Amusing the range of prices is $430 for the Cascade to $1028AU for the EXO K4 3600 (70L). That's a 239% range.

Edit - This is the only Aarn with a 20kg load rating: https://www.aarnpacks.com/collections/a ... alance-pro
The rest are lower..
What makes it "Natural Balance"? What's Pro about it? The image of the harness looks like a bit of a mess.

"Pro" refers to the fact that it is made from UHMWPE (Dyneema is one brand name). The "non-pro" Aarn packs are made from heavy weight nylon.

Aarn packs have a sprung mesh back to allow airflow, so they don't sit hard against your back as such.

As bernieq said, the balance pockets work really well for load balancing and keeping things within easy reach.

You need to familiarise yourself with the harness system if you get one because if the thing is not adjusted properly it becomes a medieval torture device.

Airflow? Sounds similar to the WE...
Torture device? Yeah. lots of buckles. 5 on just the waist? What the hell?

[matagi]

I'm in Adelaide, so trying any pack except the very mainstream is impossible.

Looks like the pack most are happy with is the Kifaru with their new frame: https://kifaru.net/collections/frames
Close to $1500 with frame, pack, and some pockets.

Any chance of a quick trip to Melbourne? Backpacking Light in Little Bourke St have Aarn packs and a bunch of other brands, if you were interested in trying them. Bogong Equipment is just across the street and Paddy Pallin is down in Bourke St. Not sure how that compares to your options in Adelaide.

[swhite]

Paddy's is here, but none of their stores in Australia stock the Natural Balance.

And why does this effing website keep logging me out?

[Moondog55]

Me too but it's a Windows update removing all the cookies in my case. Logging back in isn't a big deal unless I forget my password

[matagi]

Paddy's is here, but none of their stores in Australia stock the Natural Balance.

And why does this effing website keep logging me out?

The owner of Backpacking Light is the Australian Importer of Aarn packs (or was) so they've always had a good range.