The Instaflator

[Franco]

One of the regulars here had some spare Instaflators.
I have just decided (at 6:42PM) that I want one.
One of the most prolific gear testers (Ray Estrella) likes it, so I am compelled to get one.
Can you please let me know.
(I know that there is a market place but no one reads those)
Franco

[ninjapuppet]

I got a few spares, but I am away from home till January.

it weighs 45 grams. 1.5 rolls pumps fills up my neoair regular.
you cant buy it from the manufacturer or the website anymore because they only sell in bulk. I got the owner in touch with rays outdoors so hopefully we might be able to see them later in the year.

currently, u might be able to get them from this ebay seller
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130456681297&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI

if you cant get it from ebay for some reason, u can paypal me $5 in the new year and i'll post you one

Ken

[Franco]

Hi
Great. I might just wait. I am not in desperate need for one...
( I really need to find out where my Exped is leaking but having tried already 3 times i get depressed thinking about that)
Franco

[Nuts]

( I really need to find out where my Exped is leaking but having tried already 3 times i get depressed thinking about that)
Franco

Exped mats, werent they all recalled yet

That doesnt sound good Franco. Like the bitter experience ending at least half a dozen ive seen. Have you had it fully submerged? Are there slow surface bubbles clinging to any particular area while submerged?

It will be frustrating looking at such a useless, otherwise perfect thing... (at least when they suffer the other death (the seams give way) you can still get some sleep (balancing on the resulting hump).

[Franco]

I have had it for years.
It was working well for a few seasons than it started this very slow leak. It takes several hours to let me down...
I have tried every trick in the book...
No bubbles to be seen, with or without soap/dish washing liquid .
problem is that i have other mats so i just keep postponing another bout.
But I will try again. This time I am going to put it in the tub and put bricks on top to see if I can finally spot the problem.

Franco

[north-north-west]

Give it some Viagra.

[Nuts]

Nah, dont waste good Viagra....

I ended up doing that Franco (in a large tub) Good luck, perhaps it will be a simple small hole.
The first one I thought I had found a single hole... even patched it... Somehow the air must escape through the inner laminate and be temporarily trapped or redirected before exiting the outer (fabric) at different (not consistent) points

Ive got a packraft instaflator, bit of overkill, they would likely make a nice light pack liner as well though...?
(wouldnt fit nozzle without an adaptor though i guess.... are there smaller instaflators made to suit different mats?)

[Bivouac Gary]

One thing that is a possible issue on older model Exped mats is hydrolysis. This can happen to PU films over time (like when a nylon daypack with a coating goes sticky or flaky on the inside surface) and leads to the airtight film laminate becoming air permeable.

The symptom is a slow leak which when put under water or covered in a detergent solution then air seems to "fizz" out of the mat across the surface rather than a defined place like with a puncture. Have seen this happen on all sleeping mat brands I have sold (must be about 7 over the years) but was definitely more common on the Exped mats - probably as more air inside meant more moisture in the air. Did not affect most mats but random mats would just suffer a breakdown of the film and start leaking - Synmats more often than Downmats it seemed but have no idea why.

Exped solved this completely by moving to more expensive laminate of different chemical makeup to the normal PU based films/coatings used at the beginning of 2009 (when wide valve mat were introduced rather than the screw valves). Since then hydrolysis has ceased to be an issue. Cannot speak for Auz but in NZ hydrolysis is considered a warranty issue and mats are replaced when it occurs. Would have to return it to the distributer through the retailer it was bought from for assessment if that was the issue or if it was a puncture.

[Franco]

Hi Gary
Thanks for that. it was purchased through a shop that has since closed down, cannot even remember the name now.
(it only lasted a year or so in Little Bourke St, Melbourne ...)
Might have a go at it tomorrow.
Franco

[Nuts]

Gary, you seem to have a better understanding of the exped problem than when it was last discussed? ; )

Just to note (an exped topic would be a more appropriate place perhaps);
*The hydrolisis problem Did effect 'most' mats ime. (ie to me that means >50%)
*Also that they may have 'completely' solved that problem but now 'most' (ime) suffer a new problem with separation of the baffles within the mat.

It is now quite some time since i mentioned this. I wonder how many of these mats Exped still have to move?
Exped Aust, while not seemingly happy about it, were helpful in replacing these mats each time (after me not receiving a response from the manufacturer).
(If it is a design fault. Making people send gear all over the word can be nothing but a barrier/delaying tactic, especially when its at their own expense...)

[Bivouac Gary]

Yes. Last time topic came up we were only just beginning to see more issues with the high volume mats above the other brands of mats we had imported/sold . Possibly because we had only later models of mats compared to Auz the stock was either better or had less time to degrade or both. Added to this it took Exped a while to figure out exactly what was going on as the films they were using were similar to what other people also were using. Just the extra air volume was accentuating the issue. As soon as they did know the extent of the issue they moved to the new laminate and we got more information on the mechanics of the issue.

To date our return rate on down/syn/SIM mats has been of the order of 8 to 10% for the older models. Unfortunately can assume there would be a percentage of customers that never returned them when faulty but this still would not push it to anywhere near 50%. But would also assume however that some customers (more humid areas of use or certain batches?) would have more issues than others.

We have not seen a single new wide valve model with hydrolysis issues so pretty confident they have it sorted. Naturally continue to warranty any old mats with that issue.

Sorry you had issues dealing with it initally. Most manufacturers just let local distributer deal with issues and Exped does that also. In this case proabbly struck it unlucky - normally would think they would send you straight to the distributer to sort it locally.

Exped are the nicest people I have dealt with in two decades of outdoor retail and importing - passionate about their product but still honest about mistakes they make. But they are a very small company (the owners are a husband/wife team who are still in actively in charge of design ond production) so when things get busy the person who should have dealt with your email may have been away or snowed under and the email may have been shunted sideways into nowhere accidentally. No excuse I know but these things happen in big corporates as well as in little growing companies - difference is I know they genuinely would be upset that a customer got poorly serviced by them.

[Nuts]

Thanks for the comments Gary. Perhaps you are correct about exped.
My sample size was probably relitavely small around a a dozen of each. They did however come from several different sources over 12 or so months. They were dried aired and stored correctly after each use. Some failed in several weeks (use) others several months. These are just the facts as experienced by us.

It does make the cynical ponder though. If a company has invested a fortune in a product and the failings come apparent too late how do they deal with it. If the product isnt subject to mandatory safety recalls surely the temptation would be to cross the fingers and let it run its course (in this case relying on the fact that it may take many years of normal use for many mats to fail)... Im not saying this is the case, just thoughts.

The second problem with the seams separating was just as bad. The facts, discussion and photos have been with the manufacturer for some time now....

[Nuts]

PS I do like the exped mat covers though, they fit nicely on the thermarests ; )

[Franco]

Ninjapuppet was nice enough to send me for free one of his Instaflators.
He "charged" me $5, however his postage was $4.55, the padded envelop is probably around a dollar and of course he paid for the Instaflator on top of that.
What a great guy , (what a crappy businessman...just kidding)

Within about 3.52 sec of opening the envelop (the pump is brand new...) I had my Neo Air out and with less than two loads it was fullly inflated.
Way faster and easier than doing it by mouth.
( I had a false start because I forgot to undo the valve....)
Still don't know if I will use it with the Neo but I probably will with the Exped if I ever manage to find that very annoying very slow leak.
9 I did try again the other day, no luck...)
So thanks Ken for that, and thanks for selling a Moment to my mate Tony because there is no stock available right now.
Franco