Which lighter-wgt tents fared best/worst in extreme condtns

[Tortoise]

There may already be a thread I haven't found on this, so please redirect me there if there is.

I'm wondering from people's actual experience, which lighter weight tents have survived, and which failed, in extreme conditions - e.g. exposed places in Tasmanian storms. Of course there are lots of variables, like different levels of relative shelter when the wind changes direction, how good the pitch is/how often during the night people get up to re-tighten guys/replace anchor points etc, etc.

But if you know of situations where some tents failed, and some survived, I'd be really interested in hearing which did which. Thanks.

[ninjapuppet]

Ive seen a mates macpac olympus flatten on mt anne in tassie and my hilleberg jannu poles broke in aspiring national park in NZ. Watch any Everest documentary and youll see left over bits of VE-25s at camp 1. Given the right conditions, any tent will flatten.

I have had my 400g tent survive 90kph winds. This suits me as it covers 90% of all camping i do anyway.

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

[Tortoise]

Given the right conditions, any tent will flatten.

Fair enough. There may be no real answer to my wonderings. I was thinking about situations where some tents failed and some didn't at the same place and time - but there's probably too many variables for a useful comparison.

I have had my 400g tent survive 90kph winds.

Very impressive! I tend to think that the tent pitched by someone with an engineering-type brain will fare the best.

[Kingsleythelost]

The Good(ndie)

My OP Goondie three man survived 100Km/hour plus winds at the top of NSW snowy mountain main range. It has also survived flash flooding type rains without a problem

The Bad

My TT Double Rainbow in a torrent rain was just as wet inside as it was out. Made for a terrible trip. When the weather is good its great but when its bad I wish id bought a different tent.

[Franco]

"I was thinking about situations where some tents failed and some didn't at the same place and time"
There is an account, that has been posted several times on different forums ,of two tents set up side by side in a gale force wind.
From memory the wind speed (something like 80kmph ..) was posted (measured if I remember correctly)
Anyway one tent was destroyed during the set up, the other one was set up successfully and the two guys spent the night in that one.
From the above you would want to know which tent was which.
Well they were exactly the same model, just set up by two different guys.
Trouble is that I keep seeing the flattened one used as an example of a tent that can't take a wind load...

As I mentioned many times before, if you saw me driving you would think that no car on the market is safe.
(its OK, I know I can't drive therefore I don't...)
BTW, for every VE25 you see flattened (as Ninjapupped mentioned) there will be another one or three next to them that stood up undamaged.
Do we blame the tent, the operator or do we take it that sometime things go wrong and maybe the tool is not to be blamed ?

[Franco]

One example but I could do this with almost any tent on the market (apart from geodesic/multi pole tents...)
this 700 g tent will do well under moderate amount (a foot or so) of wet snow or in strong winds :


this one, at least set up like that, will not :

obviously it is the same model just not set up the same way.
There is a good chance that the owner of the second one is not aware of the somewhat less than optimal set up , not an isolated case...

[CasualNerd]

My TT Double Rainbow in a torrent rain was just as wet inside as it was out. Made for a terrible trip. When the weather is good its great but when its bad I wish id bought a different tent.

Do you have an opinion on where and why the water ingress ? Rainbow is on my current shortlist.

[Kingsleythelost]

If pitched perfectly with no wind, pressure from gear (sleeping mats or packs etc), If the rain is falling straight down....the tent may keep out water.

The main problem is there is not much of an overlap between the tent bottom and mesh going up into the tent main. So any external forces such as above that miss-align the mesh (Around the floor) with the main cover will cause the water to flow straight into the tent and sucked up by your lovely down sleeping bag.

For me I had two people in the tent both big guys and equipment in Ves. rolling around a bit at night with Wind etc caused it to get very wet! I pitched it three times to try and get the best shape I could.

Dry weather and just me I love this tent but rain for two ....never again.....

[Franco]

The current version ( since 2010) has the floor designed so it can be lifted up at both ends, that also lifts slightly the sides too.
The "bathtup" on the sides is not very deep, only about 10cm but should be enough in most situations .
You can see the floor lift in this video of mine :

If the problem is the mesh door sagging, then it probably is because the floor corners were not in tension when set up.

[Kingsleythelost]

You are correct in that it can be lifted and left alone with no external pushing etc it should of been fine yes the water should in theory flow in the right direction. Problem is if your mat is slightly against the wall or your matt is pushing in on one side or the wind is blowing hard , Or the rain is not coming straight down then the systems tolerance lets you down.

It doesn't take a lot of pressure to push the mesh slightly outwards to be a water collector. We are only talking a matter of a few CM's. A bag at the end of your bed or in my case im 6ft8 so maybe a foot

This is just my personal experience of using this tent in torrents of rain. And don't get me wrong love the tent but not on this trip ...not with that much rain ...and not with that much gear and a mate. The particular trip was to the blue mountains two weeks ago.

[wayno]

its not the sustained wind speed that damages tents but wind gusts.
my macpac olympus was handling severe wind until a 100+k gust hit it and flattened it, it did bounce straight back up again , no worse for wear,
mate of mine was worried about his tent flapping in the wind, he kept getting up at night and tightening the guy lines up, until finally it shredded itself on him... i dont know what type of tent it was, sometimes you cant win.

[sthughes]

MSR Nook
Two of us spent two nights on the plateau between Mt Eliza and Mt Anne last summer. We had rain, hail, snow, wind etc. Of course we checked the forecast and I scoffed at the "overly pessimistic" BOM forecast, and elected to take my lightweight MSR Nook (which I have toughened up with extra guy lines on all the available guy points). It survived quite okay, but it was quite unsuitable for the weather if I'm honest.

In the really strong gusts it would almost flatten and had us sort of holding it up - this was to be expected in the wind and with the tent design (it wasn't going to break, but for waterproofness sake holding it up seemed to be beneficial.

Annoyingly the top vents are secured closed with a nice lightweight microscopic square of velcro. But add some wind and rain/ice/snow and soon that won't stay shut, so the rain is blown up the side of the tent and in the mesh hole - bugger.

Despite a very high bathtub floor some wind driven rain managed to wet the walls above the bathtub. But nothing made it as high as the mesh, so we were still mostly dry. I did however sleep with our rain coats over my sleeping bag to protect it from the water coming in the vent.
Finally, on our day of being tent bound the temperature topped out at 2 degrees. A tent with a high fly, and lots of mesh is never ideal in such circumstances, especially with a -1 sleeping bag completing the lightweight outfit!

We were camped with a Hilleberg Nallo and an Akto. These both faired much better, being dry and warm, although we did have to re-peg them a couple of times. Oh and have I mentioned the incessant flapping of the pair!! Really the Nook was at it's design limit (or a tad beyond) and the Hillebergs were doing exactly what they were designed for.

Hilleberg Soulo ("lightweight"? well compared to a tank perhaps )
I've deliberately headed out in very rough weather to the most exposed place I could find, in the snow, on Western Bluff to test my Soulo. It faired as expected keeping me warm and dry. The fact the snow it was pitched on melted overnight leaving 5 of my 6 guylines hanging loose, and the whole tent on about a 10 degree lean to one side wasn't ideal. I barely slept at all due to the incredible noise and violent shaking of the whole structure throughout the night, and one of the peg out loops wore right through. At times the top cap develops a buzzing noise in decently strong gusts of wind. The poles also rubbed enough to wear through the gold coating and eat into the metal! Given the conditions I was happy with how it performed, although I'm not sure I'd deliberately subject such an expensive tent to such conditions again! Nearby another Soulo in a slightly more sheltered spot faired a tad better, and a Macpac Stellar that was pitched to be protected by my tent bent a pole and largely collapsed with the hardy occupant sleeping on the floor in the fetal position in the only dry corner it had (pegs pulling out being the main issue).


MSR Hubba Hubba HP
Roof gets very low in overnight snow, and I suspect if it was heavy enough it may squash the tent. I had about 6 inches fall on it one night and I couldn't sit up - but once it's banged off - no worries.
Acts like a sail in strong winds side on as the little cross pole is pulled down. But by adding a trekking pole (or two) and an extra guyline (or 2) to the setup I've found it very good in bad weather. Could do to be better soundproofed however - the noise of the nearby flapping Nallo 2 can drive you mad!

[north-north-west]

My Scarp, and MJD's Nemo, survived 95+kph winds on Eldon Peak, when a larger (and supposedly more robust) Marmot ended with two broken pole sections and a very damp inhabitant. The wind was strong enough to occasionally force mist through the Scarp's fly, and the thing was shuddering and shaking like buggery, but it stood up.
The Akto has survived even worse conditions, for longer, on Tea Tree Saddle, but there wasn't anything else around with which to compare it.

As for my beloved Nallo, it's been through worse in a lot of places without a hiccup, including snow, hail, side on winds in the +90kph range. Again, can't compare it to anything else, and it's not exactly a lightweight one man tent. .

[Franco]

"its not the sustained wind speed that damages tents but wind gusts. "
Yes, that is a very important detail as well as knowing the wing force that was actually hitting the tent compared to the one guessed or measured.
I posted before about a guy raving on about his tent standing up to 100mph winds, yet the figure was from a nearby weather station (measurements are not taken at ground level...) and his tent was behind a snow wall.

[DanShell]

its not the sustained wind speed that damages tents but wind gusts.

I agree 100%. I have spent a few nights now laying awake with my tent flapping and rocking so hard I was wondering if it let go would it take me with it!! It never did by the way.......TT stratospire pitched properly.

[peregrinator]

One example but I could do this with almost any tent on the market (apart from geodesic/multi pole tents...)
this 700 g tent will do well under moderate amount (a foot or so) of wet snow or in strong winds :


this one, at least set up like that, will not :

obviously it is the same model just not set up the same way.
There is a good chance that the owner of the second one is not aware of the somewhat less than optimal set up , not an isolated case...

Franco, please excuse my ignorance. Like your unaware owner of the second one, I'm far from sure what constitutes an optimal setup. Could you please describe what is incorrect about how that tent has been erected?

[wayno]

guy lines coming from the top of the tent should be anchored further out from the tent to provide more stability in the wind,
i cant even see one on the left side of the bottom photo and the one on the right side it anchored next to the tent, it won't stop the tent swaying if there is a cross wind and putting the poles and closer anchors under more stress.

[Franco]

Franco, please excuse my ignorance. Like your unaware owner of the second one, I'm far from sure what constitutes an optimal setup. Could you please describe what is incorrect about how that tent has been erected?
OK, assuming that you are not having me on, that Notch looks immediately wrong to me and really should to anyone else just by comparing it with the photo of the other Notch.
So what is wrong with it ?
Yes a missing guyline and one placed in a less then ideal position comes in to it , but can't you see the very loose, flappy panels ?
Tent panels work like sails, a flappy sail is one waiting to be shredded and so is a tent panel.
Yet folk set up their shelters like that then blame them for not standing up to the weather...

To add something constructive...
That Notch could be fixed in a few seconds just by lifting up that Pitch Lock corner/end (the two struts) and sitting them down a few centimeters further away from the middle line (so closer to the one doing the lifting) then re-stake so that it remains taut.
You can see just how simple it is in this video clip at around the 1 minute mark :

the one in the clip is the Scarp corner but it works the same (very similar..) way.
Note that it is always best to peg those tie outs fully extended , when the cords are pulled in you lose leverage.
You might remember Archimedes words " Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world" works something like that.

[Tortoise]

Thanks for your input, one and all. Appreciated.

[Nuts]

I have had one of these Luna Duo's pitched in the extremes of the backyard for a few days .. it's praying for rain.. .

Not convinced they will survive proper 'extremes' but then iv'e never seen an appropriately pitched tarp blow away either... (where these will be going)

[simonm]

I have had one of these Luna Duo's pitched in the extremes of the backyard for a few days .. it's praying for rain.. .

DUO-.jpg

Not convinced they will survive proper 'extremes' but then iv'e never seen an appropriately pitched tarp blow away either... (where these will be going)

Mate if it's anything like my experience then it will rain when you take it down. It's been comical at my place some days - it's raining put the tarp out - bugger stopped raining - eventually bring the tarp in - starts raining again. So take it down we need the rain.

[Nuts]

Was hoping to see how Polyester suffers 'misting' compared to Nylon, to avoid adding liners. Maybe resort to a hosing.
Let's just call it 'UV resistance' testing for now
Iv'e had 4 of 5 weeks in/on a bivy under open skies this summer, it's been like a holiday .. but yes, enough of that already.

[peregrinator]

Franco, please excuse my ignorance. Like your unaware owner of the second one, I'm far from sure what constitutes an optimal setup. Could you please describe what is incorrect about how that tent has been erected?
OK, assuming that you are not having me on . . .

No, I certainly wasn't having you on. So thanks for taking me seriously and offering good advice. (My tent's architecture doesn't resemble those in your shots, but the principles remain the same.)

I can see why my question might have been interpreted as a tease. Yes, I did observe "the very loose, flappy panels". The guys were a bit harder to see, especially as my browser is zoomed out a fair way and I didn't think to zoom in. What I was hoping a tent expert like yourself might provide is an explanation of why the panels could be loose, and what to do to fix that. Which is exactly what you have done, and I thank you for it.

[peregrinator]

Mate if it's anything like my experience then it will rain when you take it down. It's been comical at my place some days - it's raining put the tarp out - bugger stopped raining - eventually bring the tarp in - starts raining again. So take it down we need the rain.

What about trying a garden hose with appropriate intensity and breadth of flow? Or is a combination of water and wind necessary to do the test?

[north-north-west]

Mate if it's anything like my experience then it will rain when you take it down. It's been comical at my place some days - it's raining put the tarp out - bugger stopped raining - eventually bring the tarp in - starts raining again. So take it down we need the rain.

What about trying a garden hose with appropriate intensity and breadth of flow? Or is a combination of water and wind necessary to do the test?

Often, yes.
I've never had any trouble with heavy rain, regardless of the tent. But put enough wind behind the rain and it can force water through the fabric.
Hydrostatic head is effectively a measure of pressure, and moving air creates pressure on a static surface.

[Nuts]

Iv'e seen it happen on golite silnylon, wasn't overly heavy rain, had the impression wind on wet fabric was the main mechanism?

[Moondog55]

Doesn't the hydrostatic head need to be above 10,000mm to be considered waterproof?
I think sometimes we are sacrificing some factors in chasing ever lighter and lighter shelters
Most lightweight tents I have owned will handle quite a bit of wind if guyed and pegged correctly

[Franco]

"Doesn't the hydrostatic head need to be above 10,000mm to be considered waterproof?'
I think that is for rainware not tent material
(different fabric tension in play)
There are of course different opinions but generally over 1500 mm is considered enough for most situations (functionally waterproof) .
Some of the more popular Eureka tents (as an example...) are rated 800mm, several MSR are rated 1200mm and 1200mm seems to be the level several manufacturers of backpacking tents aim for.

[photohiker]

Rainwear is in contact with your clothing and skin. Tent fly is designed not to be in contact with anything.

[simonm]

It also depends how some people are rating their fabrics. Some may quote the maximum HH rating when the fabric is new, whilst others may use a more conservative figure to take into account the drop off as the fabric is used.