tent for Tassie walking [merged]

[Deb]

Hi all,
My husband and myself ( both pushing the 50 age group) are looking to purchase a tent for some overnight and 2 -3 day trips. We would be unlikely to plan mid winter trips or tackle anything too difficult but would like to be well enough prepared to explore areas such as the Walls of Jerusalem and be equipped for the weather conditions we may encounter.
We don't want to spend a fortune, but want something that is lightweight, sturdy and suitable for Tassie conditions. My husband is 6'2 so we would prefer a 3 person tent for that extra bit of room and comfort.
I've been searching around the forum and have had a look online at a tarptent Rainshadow 2. From memory it was about $265 US plus postage. Do you think this would be a suitable tent to see us through some moderate trips for the next few years? We haven't owned a hiking tent before so don't have anything to compare it too.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
Deb

[Drifting]

Deb- I've been through this with my own tent. Unfortunately, because of Tassie's highly volatile weather conditions, 4-season tents are really needed here. I was doubtful of this when we were buying gear upon first moving here, but I'm in no doubt that 4 season stuff is needed now.

There's another thread on here about Hilleberg tents on sale cheaply.

Ask the very helpful Franco for advice on Tarptent, but I've swapped emails with Henry Shires, who owns the company. I think that the Tarptent Scarp 2 in the four-seasons version would set you up perfectly, and it low-weight, to boot.

Tasadam had a Hilleberg Nallo 3 that he loves as well.

[north-north-west]

The Hillebergs are great tents, the quality is second to none and the customer service excellent. However, they aren't cheap, even on sale.

The 4 season Scarp 2 - preferably seam-sealed by Franco as you really don't want to have to mess with that yourself - is probably the best option if you're not a year-round-regardless-of-the-conditions walker.

[Franco]

Hi
Thanks for the comments..
I often see that "want a double for just me or a three person for two" comment but there are tents and there are tents..
In the TT line up for example the Rainbow is a large solo however the Double Rainbow is a smallish (not that small..) double.
The Scarp 2 is a LOT larger than many double shelters.
I will get some stock next week so that I can take a picture to show you how large it is.
Here are some pics
http://www.tarptent.com/scarp2.html
but I will take some shots with mats inside for size.
The inner is 132cm wide and 218 cm long , all of it is usable. The apex of the inner is at 114 cm.
Note that it sets up as one unit (choose either mesh or fabric, I suggest the fabric ("solid" in TT speak))
Also note the pole protected vestibule with a rain protected entry point (x2)
Here is how you set it up :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWE0gx7rSXU
Seam sealing is $20 US (add that to the comments box)
I also suggested (if interested at all) 2 extra pegs and about 10' of guyline for the pole guylines . (not included)
The weight and cost does include 6 pegs and the stuff sacs.
Franco

[Nuts]

Personally, i dont think a 'four season' tent is necessary unless you plan on lots of winter walking. In which case I would suggest that the only True four-Tassie-season tent mentioned is the Nallo 3 (just...and with its optional summer mesh inner...). From what youve said of the intended use though, id imagine the others would be fine. Any would be good enough (in all seasons) if you were prepared to carry a bivy as insurance.

[Bronski]

Hi there, my first post, hello everyone.
I wanted to reply to your question as my Husband and I have just bought a new tent and love it. We bought a Nemo Meta 2 person. Used it on 3 trips so far. 2 to Wilsons Prom and 1 to Mt Howitt. We are both over 6 foot and it's very comfy, feels like a 2.5 man tent to us. Some of the things I love are - It's about 1.5kg packed weight and it's about the size of a down sleeping bag in a compression sack. It's waterproof. It has 2 huge vestibules and 2 entrances. In lighter rain, you can leave the vestibules open and not get wet inside the tent.
So some of the cons are - It requires 2 trekking poles for set up. I haven't seen it available in Australia yet so you have to buy it from the UK/USA. It's a single walled tent which the fabric does not breath, so you get condensation if it's very humid and there's no breeze for the venting system to work. I had this problem on one night, but simply wiped it up with my towel quick smart. Have a search for Nemo Meta 2P and you'll soon find the info on it.

Cheers!

[Drifting]

For Tassie you really need a 4-season tent, even for Summer walking. I'd consider the Tarptent Scarp II with the 4-season option, or a Hilleberg Nallo 2 or 3. They are on sale in the US at the moment, listed on a thread somewhere else on here.

FWIW, I have a Hilleberg Nallo 4 and we love it so much we choose to sleep in it rather than a giant 2-room dome tent thing when we car camp. We slept in it in Hobart last week, and even when it was hot and humid and raining there was NO condensation on the inside of the tent.

[ssloane]

We just tested out our new Mont Moondance tents in Tassie and they were great. Absolutely waterproof, and no problems at all in high winds on Tassie's West Coast. We have both the 2-man and 3-man model and both were a dream to use, easy to pitch and pack up.

The 2-man is big enough for 2 because there is ample room on each side beneath the fly for your boots and pack to be stored overnight.

[Deb]

Thanks to all who replied. We have ordered the Scarp2 in the 4 season version. Space, weight, price and positive reviews were the deciding factors. Will let you know how we go!!! Hopefully our first trip will be to the Walls of Jerusalem in a few weeks time.

[Jellybean]

Hi all,
My husband and myself ( both pushing the 50 age group) are looking to purchase a tent for some overnight and 2 -3 day trips. We would be unlikely to plan mid winter trips or tackle anything too difficult but would like to be well enough prepared to explore areas such as the Walls of Jerusalem and be equipped for the weather conditions we may encounter.
We don't want to spend a fortune, but want something that is lightweight, sturdy and suitable for Tassie conditions. My husband is 6'2 so we would prefer a 3 person tent for that extra bit of room and comfort.
I've been searching around the forum and have had a look online at a tarptent Rainshadow 2. From memory it was about $265 US plus postage. Do you think this would be a suitable tent to see us through some moderate trips for the next few years? We haven't owned a hiking tent before so don't have anything to compare it too.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
Deb

Hi Deb,

I'm sure you'll be very happy with your Scarp 2 - two of my friends have both bought Scarp 2's and both are very happy with them. I'm equally sure that you will enjoy Walls - a magical place indeed! Have fun.

Cheers,

JB

[whynotwalk]

Good luck with the tent Deb. Just to reinforce the necessity of using 4 season tents in Tassie, I've attached a shot of my (Macpac Olympus) tent during a summer snow blast in the Walls of Jerusalem. On the same trip a walker's tent collapsed under the weight of snow!

cheers

Peter

[Moondog55]

For all round versatility and strength I settled on a Chouinard/ Black Diamond Megamid 20 years ago and still have no reason to change although I own several high mountain and 4 season tents the Megamid is the best bang for kilo tent i have ever owned, I have a Macpac minaret a Fairydown Plateau and several cheap tunnels as well as a Moss Pentawing and Heptawing and usually carry the Megamid

[Tony]

This is a photo of a Scarp 1 under snow in Scotland (by Chris Townsend).

Scarp 1 under snow.png (267.12 KiB) Viewed 18545 times

[Macca81]

how does one get in and out of that tony?

[Molly-]

excellent!

[Nuts]

The macpac olympus is a well tested snow tent. I doubt anyone could argue that they wouldn't prefer something similar in heavy weather, weights aside?
Snow isnt so much the issue (to me) many designs will shed snow and handle a snow load, especially with a little work through the night.
More the point (for me) is the ability to do so And handle strong winds.

Ive seen a tunnel design (similar to olympus) where the tent has been held flat (people still inside) by the wind. Im sure anyone whos spent enough time in a tunnel design has experienced this and understands that it is a vital attribute built into the design; to spring back up without failing......?

Proper geodesic dome tents work (with some twisting) in a different way to present a solid structure to the wind.

So... the scarp model... what is it? A tunnel tent (compromised for weight) with an attempt to make it a compromised geodesic design by adding a couple of poles via (relatively) flimsy attachment points
(ie further reducing the tunnel design with what (im sure no one could argue) would be a compromise as a dome structure...?

Ive seen a few comments of them handling strong winds, perhaps these will come up again, but havent seen anyone explain the thought behind the design and how it can be expected to be anything but this compromise for weight. Perhaps ive asked this before? Dont remember any comments offered by the usual suspects?

Its not a design(tunnel or dome) that i personally would use (as said i prefer an even more minimal approach with use of a bivy) but I think its important that people understand what they are asking their 1.5kg to do in the extreme...

The scarp design has become popular through review and (perhaps) aggressive marketing but they remain, to me, in the 'compromise for weight category' and this should be fully understood. At this stage the design principle isnt making a lot of sense. Perhaps until i see one standing through a prolonged gale alongside a flattened tunnel tent or proper solid dome design (or someone I know and trust experiences this) I think its more a marketing grasp to call it a proper fourth season tent.

Outside the original topic perhaps but then the op didnt really ask about the scarp model or mention a dedicated all season tent...

[Tony]

Hi Nuts,

Some good points, I have read a bit about Tunnel tents vs dome tents, my understanding is that tunnels tents slightly win out in wind.

With the Scarp, the beauty of it is that if you want to reduce weight you can leave the cross over poles behind if you want to, where most other tunnel/dome tents you do not have that choice.

Here is a debate on BPl about tunnel vs dome tents

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... splay.html?

A vidieo that is worth watching
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/5054

A link to some more debate and articles on BPL
http://search.backpackinglight.com/?zoo ... +dome+tent

Tony

[ninjapuppet]

. Im sure anyone whos spent enough time in a tunnel design has experienced this and understands that it is a vital attribute built into the design; to spring back up without failing......?

classic example of the springing back up
http://www.outdoor-magazin.com/test/zelte/videos-zum-test-12-trekkingzelte-vor-der-windmaschine.418066.3.htm#2


Not a smart @$$ comment, but an honest question: would this Hilleberg be considered to be springing back up after the pole broke? Or would this be considered failure? Ive never used 2 or 3 pole tunnel tents, but Its amazing how well the tent pegs held up. In real life with a bivy, i think it woulnt be life or death inside the tent as long as the tent poles held.
http://www.outdoor-magazin.com/test/zelte/videos-zum-test-12-trekkingzelte-vor-der-windmaschine.418066.3.htm#1

[Franco]

Ok, let me adress some of those remarks.
The OP was asking about a tent to be used in Tasmania and not in the middle of winter and certainly not in "extreme" situations.
Don't know why as soon as someone mentions a shelter some have to introduce "extreme" situations...
And for the record a 5-10cm summer snow fall can be handled even by my Contrail if pitched correctly.(snow in summer...)

So... the scarp model... what is it? A tunnel tent (compromised for weight) with an attempt to make it a compromised geodesic design by adding a couple of poles via (relatively) flimsy attachment points
(ie further reducing the tunnel design with what (im sure no one could argue) would be a compromise as a dome structure...?

I've seen a few comments of them handling strong winds, perhaps these will come up again, but haven't seen anyone explain the thought behind the design and how it can be expected to be anything but this compromise for weight. Perhaps ive asked this before? Dont remember any comments offered by the usual suspects?

First the Scarp is an end supported single hoop design. So neither a tunnel nor a dome tent.
Those corner struts are much stronger (have greater leverage) than the single strut used in various designs such as the Akto/Vela/Laser used extensively particularly in Europe including Scotland where the weather can be as rough or rougher than in Tasmania (no offence...)
Don't believe me but if you ever see a Scarp in real life try pushing those corners in and compare that with any of the single strut similarly designed shelters...
Keeping those panels nice and taut helps greatly shedding winds. And this is where the "leverage" of those corners come in.
They of course also work to keep the ends up under snow load.

As far as the tunnel design being a "compromised" dome design, I for one would argue that .
The tunnel design offer more space to weight ratio (usable space) than any other design, So it is in fact "optimised " for that particular purpose.
It can also be a very good wind shedding design and that is the reason why they tend to be a favourite shelters in high wind but low snow-fall areas like the Arctic or Antarctica.
The single hoop design is a scaled down version of that and generally the weak part are the ends. No support nor leverage.
So most now have a strut or two there to help out. The Scarp has a much more effective version of that.


Its not a design(tunnel or dome) that i personally would use (as said i prefer an even more minimal approach with use of a bivy) but I think its important that people understand what they are asking their 1.5kg to do in the extreme...
The Scarp is not an expedition tent so not designed for extreme weather (very few tents are...) however it is curious to me that you use a "more minimal" approach yet do your best to tell others that something like a Scarp may not work.
Funny thing is that I see 4 season tents flapping like mad in mild breeze. However I do know enough to realise that if set up correctly they would do better.
So before I blame a shelter I take a good look at how it was set up.

The Scarp design has become popular through review and (perhaps) aggressive marketing but they remain, to me, in the 'compromise for weight category' and this should be fully understood. At this stage the design principle isnt making a lot of sense. Perhaps until i see one standing through a prolonged gale alongside a flattened tunnel tent or proper solid dome design (or someone I know and trust experiences this) I think its more a marketing grasp to call it a proper fourth season tent.

Aggressive marketing. The "marketing" you see in the Forum comments (except from me now...) are users comments, what we used to call "word of mouth advertising".
As a matter of fact there is no advertising budget at TT nor anyone (including me) is paid for posting comments.
So if you find it annoying that actual Tarptent users enthusiastically endorse the product that probably says more about how you see the brand rather than the actual product it self.

A lot of Tarptent users have several shelters and often more than one TT.
One of the most prolific tent testers ,Ray Estrella, having tested and used many tents over a few decades bought at full price (yes it was not a freeby...) a Scarp 2 for himself and his wife.
(he later divorced and sold the tent...)
To me that says a lot about the product considering that he gets every tent he tests for free.
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/tester_ ... ayestrella
So I take the oppinion of guys that know how to and have used several shelters above the one from guys that just guess.
BTW, in Nevada City (TT base) it can and does snow over one foot in a day and that is where the shelters are tested in the first place.
Franco
franco@tarptent.com

[Nuts]

Sorry guys, i'm going to have to upgrade my ip speed, it's tediously slow trying to load those vids, does one show the tarp tent in testing?

Franco, i see a lot of comments from people who have bought the scarp on this forum, few from those that have actually had the time, through many conditions to actually use theirs.
You say 'single hoop pole design', apologies again, I didn't know that was a design category. I was thinking more of the concept behind the design, to me even these small shelters can be acting in only one of the two ways, to either yield to the wind or stand against it (ie as do tunnel or dome structures)? It doesnt seem that it would take a lot of experience to make the observation that the scarp (and other 'single hoop' shelters) in fact act in the same way as a tunnel tent in dealing with strong wind. It also seems a simple observation that the scarp would need a lot more than a couple of attachment points to turn it from acting in one way to being truly affective in the other? Especially when it gains its lighter weight by using lighter materials?

I am interested in comments by these guys you quote (i do take the time to eventually read most links) and will get through the links mentioned before. Meanwhile I'm just relying on adding together basic thoughts grabbed together from personal local experience, I guess it carries little weight without third person quotes... Perhaps I will buy one, I dont think anything ive said relys on owning (yet another) tent and it would likely be many years before I was convinced, but if these gurus reckon they are ok who am i to argue

[Franco]

Back from the beach... (a mate is in training for his next Alaskan venture...)
This is an early picture of the Scarp 1 set up outside the TT studio/warehouse in Nevada City.

The snow above floor level was what fell on it overnight. If you look carefully you can see the end of another Scarp without the poles.
The mid part of that collapsed but the ends and main pole remained up.
Of course if someone had been inside with a few knocks it would have fixed the problem, however it shows that the external poles are not just cosmetic.
Oh, and yes there are more than two basic tents designs about...
BTW, Nuts, personally I would recommend you do not buy any Tarptents.
The best way to fail a tent is by starting with one you don't like.
The converse is also true...
Franco

[Nuts]

Meh, gear is gear.. Advertising sometimes seems the biggest innovation in design.
Did it fail shortly after, how? Did it end up with four neat little vent holes either side...
It will fail at some stage, what will be the outcome?
There might be many designs but are there not just two simple concepts behind them?

I dont really dislike Tarptents, I just dont swallow without chewing
It wouldn't really matter who it was filling the void here, any manufacturer or sales rep.

[tasadam]

Tasadam had a Hilleberg Nallo 3 that he loves as well.

Actually mine's a Nallo 2.
Same length as a Nallo3, but the 3's wider.
The Nallo 2 is somewhat wider than my previous 2 person tent. It serves my wife and I quite fine.
I'm 5 feet 10 and a half or something like that, but as said, length in the 2 and the 3 are the same. I don't struggle with length, the foot of the tent is where we keep the camera gear overnight and it doesn't get in the way.
I should add, I have an extra set of poles, but haven't needed them. Strongest winds this tent has experienced are approx 100km/hr gusts, which whipped the side of the tent so hard it literally cracked like a whip. Sleep was ok if you put something like the corner of your sleeping bag over the side of your head. But if you turn over & your ear is exposed, you soon wake up with the noise.

Elsewhere, snow camping, if it's snowing just remember to shake the tent now and then. If you sleep through, so be it, you might have a bit of weight above you. I don't think I've ever slept right through a night. And in Tassie, usually when it snows overnight, you know about it! (wind / storm).

[Funky_Bunch]

After having a look at the Tarptent site its not something i would reccomend for walking in tassie, Ive been walking in the walls on a breezy 23 degree day and then spent the night getting blown to bits and snow on the ground. the weather here can be hostile to say the least. my personal opinion would be to look at something like a Macpac Minaret or olympus though the dollars are more you can get a great discount by joining their club thing which brings it down to a respectable price for something that will keep you cosy. with the height the minaret may be a bit cramped so the olympus would be sufficient (im 6'1)
http://www.macpac.co.nz
other options to think about with the tarp tent is water, it doesnt look like the floor is quite high enough around the sides and relying on trekking poles for the tent poles could be hazardous in our weather conditions. you may pull it off and be lucky enough to go years without getting stung but when it did bite i reckon it could hurt.
the wilderness equipment dart 2 winter is another great tent for Tassie conditions as is the wilderness equipment first arrow though i havent used either i have had great reports on their room, strength and water resistancy.

plenty to consider when buying a tent.

[Nuts]

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5643

[Son of a Beach]

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5643

Thanks Nuts. The duplicate topics have now been merged (with the duplicate initial post deleted).

[Franco]

Funky Bunch
With all due respect there are 12 current TT models, seven of them not using trekking poles.
The bathtub floor varies from a couple of inches to five ....
Most are 3 season shelters ( in some areas the Sublite Tyvek would be 1-2 seasons...) but the Scarps are full double wall 4 season shelters.
In my book a tent that can take 1-2 feet of snow without collapsing can be good enough for the rough Tasmanian summer weather...

take a look at this thread at BPL :
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=41541
If the link does not work , it is the "best solo shelter for moderate solo winter use" in the gear section of the forum.
You do not need a subscription for that.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... index.html
Read the Chris Townsend comments.
Chris for decades has been an "adventurer", that is his living. Walking the trails and riting about it, full time...
And no, he was not paid to say that ...
I did not catch the non edited comments, I was just pointing out that maybe that picture shows that it can take a bit more snow that you get down there in summer...
Franco
franco@tarptent.com

Last edited by Franco on Mon 17 Jan, 2011 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

[tasadam]

I don't know what comments you are referring to.
Only post by Chris was something expected of all similar tents -

Rather more snow- heavy wet Scottish snow too. There is a Scarp 1 in there. And when dug out it was fine.

Though I do see

Edited by Christownsend on 01/15/2011 18:01:38 MST.

so maybe he's removed his comments.

[ninjapuppet]

Hey funky, I just checked macpac's age ant the olympus is retailing for $900! Joining their membership and you get it for $800. No doubt it a good tent but it would be debatable for that price to be respectable. Secondly, I have a Brooks range mountaineering tent that uses tent poles but can be substituted for trek poles. I would feel more confident with the trek poles.

[frenchy_84]

Hilleberg Nallo 2 is much cheaper than $800 bucks and you get the extra benefit of not supporting Macpac