Snow Shoes for Australian conditions

[pete0762]

Hi,
I am just starting into snow shoe walking and was wondering what peoples expereince and opinon on best snow shoes available on the market are for Australian conditions. I am thinking about snow shoes which can be used in all terrain and conditions found here - e.g. from a leisurly walk on Lake Mountain or Mt Baw Baw to a climb onto Mt Bogong under harsher conditions.

regards
Peter

[Moondog55]

In Australia my experience has been smaller is better, so a model made for US Eastern states not Alaska/Yukon

[randal]

Yowies get my tick of approval. Have used them extensively without any problems whatsoever. No moving parts, simple design, lightweight & indestructable. Other pluses - Australian made, You can walk/step backwards in them, difficult with a hinged shoe. Flexible and easy to stow on a pack.

[Moondog55]

Do the newer Yowies have crampons?? The model I tired years ago did not and you really need them for extended walks and climbing the steeper hills, note that with snowshoes you always try and go up and down the fall-line as it is difficult if not impossible to traverse wearing big plates on your feet.
I have a pair of Tubbs "Sierras" made for the Western mountain conditions; they offer just a little too much flotation for Australian condition, when I bought them the Australian army was using the slightly smaller model called the "Kahtadin" the extra 20mm of width and 50mm of length makes a huge difference to walking comfort

[randal]

Hello Moondog55,
Right from the outset, Yowies have always had cleats. So I can only assume they were never installed?? Latest models have very aggressive cleats, I have used them to get both up and down the back of Mt.Feathertop (NW spur) in iced conditions that otherwise would have required crampons. Traversing is possible depending on slope steepness, but never comfortable. They require you "stomp" the base pattern and cleats into the snow. For me, they have an advantage here over hinged shoes in as much as I can move sideways, forward and backwards - I often use a variation of the "french technique" when forced to traverse.

[Tony]

Hi Pete,

I do a bit of snowshoeing in the NSW Australian Alps use MSR Denali snowshoes, very similar to these Evo snowshoes and I am happy with them, I have some 150 mm tails but have not used them yet, they are very good in icy conditions and hard snow but not that good in very soft snow.

I tried some Yowies a long time ago and thought they where hopeless, I understand they have improved a bit since then.

A friend of mine just got some MSR EVO tours from Paddy's in Jindabyne, they told him that they hire the MSR Evo style and the tubular style and that the MSR Evo style need much less maintenance..

Tony

[LAMEA-Gals]

I also use the MSR Denali and have found them tough and reliable. I've tried the Crescent Moon ones on a trip and although they were heaps lighter than the Denali I found my foot moved around in them - spent alot of time readjusting/tightening.

[Moondog55]

Hmmm Then I have to assume that the people who were running the ski hire at Lake Mountain ( while back; 16 years at least) had a reason for not fitting them.
I use snow shoes as i use a pulk for my gear sometimes so i never traverse, but French technique would be impossible with my snowshoes

I just googled the home page, they do look a little different to the ones I had the loan of many years ago, I'm blown away by the cost tho, must be a lot of R&D needing to be recovered, the high cost is probably why so few Aussies have them as essential equipment

[Tony]

I'm blown away by the cost tho, must be a lot of R&D needing to be recovered, the high cost is probably why so few Aussies have them as essential equipment

I got my MSR Denali's from the US, it was a end of winter closeout sale and I think they where around US$140 a pair, delivered to a US address, I then got free shipping back to here.

I pays to not to be in a hurry and keep an eye out for deals.

Tony

[marangaroo86]

I have MSR Evo Assents. An ebay deal .
I have only used them about four times. Feathertop razorback, Cobbler,Buffalo and Hotham.Day walks and multiday.
Nice fit and trouble free.
They have great floatation and are light and narrow ,Thus allowing you to walk normally to a degree.
They also have rails and a claw that handle the crampon duties.
If you can get MSR from America you can get Evos for $99us.
More people should try snowshoing.
Im hooked and cannot wait to get out later this season, want to do Mt Wills as was checking this area out for snowshoeing when I broke my leg this year.

[Nuts]

G'day Pete, I have a pair of Kahtoolas that im going to try, they are probably a bit of overkill for the usual tassie conditions but i'd imagine fine for a dedicated snowshoe trip. Lots of institutions have swapped to the MSR, probably based mostly on price as they are weighty (especially with the tails i hear are needed). I like to swap to snow cleats as soon as possible so the lightweight yowies are fine used this way (ie mostly carried, used for deeper snow). I do find that I get a bit sore in the hips with the wider shoes but its generally fine for several hours at least. I cant imagine anything with less maintenance needed.. ( i guess i should say that we have a retail association with Yowies..... er.. snowshoes that is..).

[marangaroo86]

G'day Pete, I have a pair of Kahtoolas that im going to try, they are probably a bit of overkill for the usual tassie conditions but i'd imagine fine for a dedicated snowshoe trip. Lots of institutions have swapped to the MSR, probably based mostly on price as they are weighty (especially with the tails i hear are needed). I like to swap to snow cleats as soon as possible so the lightweight yowies are fine used this way (ie mostly carried, used for deeper snow). I do find that I get a bit sore in the hips with the wider shoes but its generally fine for several hours at least. I cant imagine anything with less maintenance needed.. ( i guess i should say that we have a retail association with Yowies..... er.. snowshoes that is..).

Nuts those Kahtoolas look great . Light weight and a simple clipin system. What is there weight?
I am interested in the MSR tails , do people really find that they are needed?

[Nuts]

1.8kg for mine, stress though that i haven't used them yet, I bought them for different conditions than we Usually have (locally). The obvious advantage is in not needing separate cleats though im a bit dubious about the crampon style in our local conditions...http://www.kahtoola.com/mountain_details.php


By contrast the Yowies are 1.1kg. The comments for the MSR tails come from people who do carry 'traditional' weight packs.

Just as something outside the square, I have a set of STC snowblades on the way to try http://www.stc-swiss.ch/index_e.html (though i don't think some of my walking mates will be happy seeing me disappear down any hill, hopefully they dont have to pick me up at the bottom... maybe i should have bought ten sets )

[Franco]

I'll be up at Lake Mountain tomorrow so I will let you know...

I use the MSR Evo, they work well for me.
A common problem here is that we can have very soft snow in the afternoon but then icy hard stuff in the morning, so I feel safer with the extra grip of the EVO.
I do not do difficult areas but even the Razorback or around Feathertop and MtSkopje can be iffy enough for me.

Soft one day (Matt with his MSR (Lightning ?)

hard the next (my mate Yair, same set-up as mine)

Franco

[alliecat]

Haven't tried them in deep powder (pretty unlikely in Tas...) but on mixed snow and ice, the Yowies were fantastic. I could walk normally (no special technique required) up quite steep ice-covered slopes in them with no difficulty. I was nervous at first, but the cleats on teh bottom did a really good job, in my (admittedly limited) experience.

Just as something outside the square, I have a set of STC snowblades on the way to try http://www.stc-swiss.ch/index_e.html

Curse you nuts! Those snowblades look like an amazingly fun idea. I'd love to give them a try - and they're only around $500 too... Aaaargh! (Need an icon for "stop showing me new toys I want but can really justify buying right now...")

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Nuts]

They are deep postholes Franco.
Alliecat, i know what you mean. I have an excuse for buying these things (as vague as it sometimes is..), the downside is that i need to buy in multiples for anyone to justify the expense of coming along. Another forum member sparked the interest, ive done a bit of downhill though would encourage anyone to ask a lot of questions and get some hands on experience (with someone experienced..) before just 'letting rip'. While snowshoes are pretty benign, skiing/these snowblades, like the Alpacka rafts or climbing gear are easy enough to buy but hold all sorts of traps for young players...

[marangaroo86]

Franco in the soft on day photo in looks like the shoes are sinking in about 150-200mm .
Would tails help and would most snowshoes sink like that?
Feathertop / Rasorback is a nice snowshoe walk. If you did not go the 4,5,6th of sept 2010. Weather was not great from 2pm on wards, my mate had been sick with the flu the days before and I was now getting it . Mt Buffalo had 200mm of rain overnight, Mt hotham had 150km wind gusts.The whole N.E Victoria Alpine Shires had massive floods. The going got very slow, turned back at the bottom of molly hill ,set up tent near twins. Tried to use the craigs as a windbreak. Had wind shear all night, lost count of how many times the roof of the tent touched my nose. Anywhy the rain did soften the snow and made up hill difficult. Next day turned around and it took two days to get back along the razor, Whiteouts , wind and sick. Its a long story ,wish I had been into forums then. Never done a trip report.(Bottom Iine is we made some bad decisions before we when. Sick And Knew the weather was coming.
Lesson Learnt
There was approx 2m of snow

Sorry to ramble on, Im Bored .

[corvus]

Been using Yowies since around 2002 never had any real problems with them other than hips being a bit sore after a very long hard day.
corvus

[Jellybean]

I have a set of STC snowblades on the way to try http://www.stc-swiss.ch/index_e.html (though i don't think some of my walking mates will be happy seeing me disappear down any hill, hopefully they dont have to pick me up at the bottom... maybe i should have bought ten sets )

Hi Nuts,

When we did Mera Peak (Nepal), a South African team that climbed it at the same time carried these up. On the descent they proceeded to ski from just above High Camp (5800m) down to just below Mera La (5400m). Gawd, we were envious!!! Doesn't sound very far but those altitudes are energy zapping, we would have killed for an easy cruise down!

Cheers,

JB

P.S. Agree with your words of caution, they are skis after all!

[marangaroo86]

Just as something outside the square, I have a set of STC snowblades on the way to try http://www.stc-swiss.ch/index_e.html

[color=#FF4040][color=#BF0000]Curse you nuts! Those snowblades look like an amazingly fun idea. I'd love to give them a try - and they're only around $500 too... Aaaargh! (Need an icon for "stop showing me new toys I want but can really justify buying right now...")

Cheers,
Alliecat[/quote]
I have to agree Alliecat The snow blades look cool, out of my league with my body at the moment. I think I use to many icons already being new to forums, But you can never have to many toys, snowblades or icons
Alliecat sorry for the colour I could not show as a quote???

[Nuts]

Go for it M'roo, make the most of the icons, you'll naturally use less, the longer you spend on here
JB, I can just imagine it... even downhill through snow can be exhausting... I guess these dont really even have to be used downhill (just thought they lend themselves to a snowshoe topic) but yer, who would resist...
A/c at least one place has them on sale, i bought mine 'used' (as new) it didnt take long for a pair to come up. Around $350 inc post.. (Very cheap for skis/bindings/skins)...

[alliecat]

Thanks for the caution Nuts - I do understand what you're saying. I'm an okay downhill skier (though it has been 5 years since I last skied...) and I am quite cautious with my outdoor adventures, so I'm not about to rush out and kill myself on a double black diamond slope. Probably

Like a lot of people, I get a rush of blood when I see new cool gear that has the potential for fun in the bush. But I wouldn't dream of getting out there without some serious time spent building up my skills. (And that would just give me another excuse to get out in the snow...) As you say, snowshoes are easy, no real technique required, but things like packrafts and skis are a very different story, with a lot more potential for disaster.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Moondog55]

I love figls; Snowblades, also luv BigDogs, all B**** good fun and work with most boots, telemark boots climbing boots even Alpine boots, just go to a ski swap and buy any old pair of fatties for kids, been a few pair on ebay lately too.

When you can buy old skis at Aunt Sallies for 5 or 10dollars there is no excuse for not having fun

[Franco]

Would tails help and would most snowshoes sink like that?


yes but I am not sure that his shoes can take them . It was OK for us.
Matt between himself and the pack was probably 20kg heavier than me. In that area I was sinking in around 20cm , he was going down a bit deeper.
Every 10 meters or so one of us would have a leg in knee deep .
It had been raining the day before and we had some light wind driven rain (nice and cool) for a couple of hours.
The next day we were floating on ice till mid afternoon.
On the third day around lunch time, descending we took the shoes off we felt so light after that.

Marangaroo
My two mates were up the Razorback just after those floods so maybe your same time. They mentioned coming across a party of 3 or 4 stuck there waiting for the storm to pass.

Snow depth



Franco

[marangaroo86]

Thanks for the information Franco.
Dont think I will get tails for my MSRs.
We meet onone over the three days.

[Robatman]

I just did a quick overnighter down near Guthega in NSW.
i used MSR denali's with tails and had a fairly tough time sinking on first day in soft snow. BUT I'm a shade over 100kg's and on leaving my pack was 22kg!
The trip back the next day was fine as it was very cold so no sinking at all.

My mate hired Yowies and didnt sink as much but he is a lot lighter!

On comparison I would say the MSR's better for going up, yowies better for traverse (no play or sideways movement), MSR much better on icy, crusty surface.
Robert

[corvus]

On a recent decent on Icy Snow I was able to come off a steep slope without resorting to bum slide we all had Yowies but experience did out !!
Step by step slowly and slowly I avoided a bum slide which for some resulted in cuts and abrasions ? why because they did not as I did place their trust in their snow shoes.
I did with Aussie made excellent Snow Shoes designed for our conditions and have been using Yowies since for about eight years and would not consider any others for our Tassie conditions
corvus

[andrewbish]

Corvus

I found last weekend that my medium sized Yowies would sink through the softer snow. Is that the expected behaviour in your experience? I'm 87kg - should I use the larger size? What do you use?

[sthughes]

On a recent decent on Icy Snow I was able to come off a steep slope without resorting to bum slide we all had Yowies but experience did out !!
Step by step slowly and slowly I avoided a bum slide which for some resulted in cuts and abrasions ? why because they did not as I did place their trust in their snow shoes.
I did with Aussie made excellent Snow Shoes designed for our conditions and have been using Yowies since for about eight years and would not consider any others for our Tassie conditions
corvus

I had total trust in my Yowies, but "bum sliding" is way easier and more fun

Corvus

I found last weekend that my medium sized Yowies would sink through the softer snow. Is that the expected behaviour in your experience? I'm 87kg - should I use the larger size? What do you use?

I'm a smidgen heavier than you and in my limited experience it all depends on the snow. We get a lot of soft snow down here and in that I sink a lot, but I doubt anything but the biggest MSR's with tails would help much. It gets progressively better in harder and harder snow until you don't need snow shoes at all, then we just wear them for traction, which I think is excellent. In open terrain I reckon traditional shoes would be better, but on most tracks I walk on they would be a pain in the butt with not being able to easily go backwards and sideways etc.
I do find the fixed heel on Yowies can lead to heel blisters, so I'd recommend taping up.

[andrewbish]

Ok. Thanks, Corvus