Brands that aren't/are what they once were-Insert Brand

[Giddy_up]

G,day wayno,
That may be the case, but I personally could not find anyone who was willing to take the time and care to attend to my needs like the team at Macpac Brisbane, and trust me I hit the lot before purchasing. I did want to try an Osprey Volt, but alas the stores either had no stock, could order but had to wait until they had enough product needed to justify, wanted a deposit, to hard, to tired, tired to sell me something else, etc etc........... It was just nice to go into a store and look at their "full" range with nothing missing and have staff that were willing to think outside the box and get the fit right. We all know that fit is every thing and these guys got it right. As for the product it looks, handles and feels great but time will tell. 2 nights on the trail next week and then 3 with my son(7) over easter and if the gods and finance allow a trip to Tassie(solo) to do the OT and some others in July. That should be a good shakedown and reveal as I suspect a quality item.
Cheers
G_U

[Mark F]

I think Macpac has changed with the times in order to remain competitive and in business. It used to be renowned for the "bomb proof" gear they made (Olympus tent, Cascade packs etc) but this in reality represents only a small part of the potential market. Luckily (for us) they have largely kept some of these icon items to maintain reputation but I expect the profit margins on these items are a bit lower than many other parts of their product range.

As a person who has embraced UL, much of their product line does not have great appeal but I do use an AMP 40 as my longer trip (5-10 day) pack due to its comfortable harness but I would really like to see it under 1kg by getting rid of many of the unnecessary "features". (Campbell, I am happy to provide a detailed commentary). My first experiments with a quilt were with a Macpac Epic 150 sleeping bag liner (500g) on which I unpicked a seam or two. I did have a Microlight tent - while it worked well it really was just too heavy for a 1 person tent (especially given its name).

I think Macpac is currently taking the middle ground which seems safe but is full of competitors and in which it is very difficult to distinguish yourself. I would really love to see a bit of experimentation and limited risk taking (I am a economic realist) where there may be fewer consumers but less competition. Why not put out a basic LONG waterproof jacket in the lightest eVent (or other good fabric) (1 colour, 4 sizes s-xl) and see how it goes with a bit of word of mouth publicity - sell it only through their own outlets to maximise returns and ensure theyget appropriate feedback. I would expect that this sort of strategy may bolster Macpac's image and provide them with a mechanism to differentiate themselves from the pack (pun intended).

[andrewbish]

I bought my first Minaret around 98, used it in sun, mud, snow, rain, blizzard... After heaps of use the fly inevitably began to degrade from sun damage. I was a huge fan of the tent and bought another around 07. The new Minaret was lighter and cheaper... and not made in nz. In good weather the new Minaret was just as good as the old. In poor weather (or on snow) the tent floor leaked. I warrantied it after a poor experience camping on snow in Tasmania - no way should a floor let through so much moisture in otherwise good weather. That was in 08 or 09. Since then I've not done much hiking & used the Minaret infrequently. However I am currently in Tas using the replacement Minaret... the tent floor failed in driving rain on the wooden tent platforms of the Western Arthurs. Coincidently there was another group with a Minaret who had the same problem - water coming through the floor. Other tents in their group did not. Same night, same location, all camped on tent platforms.

The contrast for me is : using the original Minaret I had no water through the floor (one memorable occasion near Federation the floor was like a water bed but no leaks); using two of the new minarets the floor leaks. My experience supports the op. The tent floor on the Minaret has changed for the worse.

The recurring leakage issues are troubling. Though if I understand the above, Macpac have provided replacements when you have reported the issues.

Has the most recent leaky floor issue been reported to Macpac? How have they reacted?

[wayno]

@ giddy up,
fair enough , I know what you mean, I received good advice from the bivouac shop where i bought my osprey in nz, i had no idea they'd mix and match the belt sizes. the shop attendant made sure i had a good fit, so for both of us it was about the staff making more effort than a other outdoor retail staff might make...
i bought an olympus tent in the late eighties, havent used it in the rain, but from memory the floor is 50 denier , with a decent pvc membrane.. it was the exact same material used in a wilderness raincoat i had, and i knew from experience with the raincoat that it was totally waterproof , macpac bought wilderness shortly after i bought the raincoat, so there was a common supplier of material there back then. the floor still looks undamaged, membrane looks good, assuming theres no unseen punctures in it, i'd expect it to be waterproof still... i've used the olympus in 100km winds, didnt have it guyed down properly to start with, a gust of wind flatttened it and it bounced straight back up.... otherwise it stood up fine all night to the wind.

[Jack o]

@ giddy up,
I received good advice from the bivouac shop where i bought my osprey in nz, i had no idea they'd mix and match the belt sizes. the shop attendant made sure i had a good fit, so for both of us it was about the staff making more effort than a other outdoor retail staff might make...
.

Thanks for your advice Wayno and as you say, the Cascade belt I looked at may well be an artifact of mixing and matching, however I would have expected that a pack which Macpac market’s as their top of the line, most expensive, large capacity, heavy load carrier, to have been equipped with something a little more substantial; especially in recognition of the greater pressures heavier loads can place on belt fittings and the need for good support around the hips, which of course, is difficult to achieve if the belt is loosening off all of the time. I'm not suggesting that this would be the case with the Cascade90FL, but it would be nice to put it to the test.
Last night as a comparison, I inspected the belt on my little 50 litre Macpac Pursuit which is excellent for short overnight tramps. The belt was of very similar dimensions to the Cascade90FL, however it did seem stiffer and less slippery.

Last edited by Jack o on Fri 22 Mar, 2013 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

[wayno]

my packs at least five years old, cant remember the exact year i bought it... maybe they changed design, my belt is pretty suntantial for carrying the load , well the load i was carrying, around 20kg or under

[Jack o]

my packs at least five years old, cant remember the exact year i bought it... maybe they changed design, my belt is pretty suntantial for carrying the load , well the load i was carrying, around 20kg or under

That’s very interesting Wayno, perhaps Black Sheep may be able to comment, as to whether the Cascade90FL belts have indeed changed over the past five years or so .

[blacksheep]

my packs at least five years old, cant remember the exact year i bought it... maybe they changed design, my belt is pretty suntantial for carrying the load , well the load i was carrying, around 20kg or under

That’s very interesting Wayno, perhaps Black Sheep may be able to comment, as to whether the Cascade90FL belts have indeed changed over the past five years or so .

They are unchanged.

[radson]

I use a Cilogear 75l pack for carrying a lot of stuff but if I was after something more comfy, I too would be poking around the Osprey Aether. Biviouac is a great shop as well

[Jack o]

my packs at least five years old, cant remember the exact year i bought it... maybe they changed design, my belt is pretty suntantial for carrying the load , well the load i was carrying, around 20kg or under

That’s very interesting Wayno, perhaps Black Sheep may be able to comment, as to whether the Cascade90FL belts have indeed changed over the past five years or so .

They are unchanged.

Thanks Black Sheep, I have a further question, is the waist belt material used on the Cascade the same as the Pursuit packs?

[blacksheep]

I assume you mean the contact fabric? if so then nope. The cascade uses a 3D air mesh for better air circulation and comfort in the heat. The pursuits use a woven spun nylon for greater durability for pack hauling etc.

[blacksheep]

re: tent floors. up till late 90's Macpac used a PVC based floor material. It was thick, robust and extremely good. Except the world learnt that PVC had several elements that research had linked to cancer causing possibilities so a change was needed. We switched to PU, and then to a water based PU as it met bluesign environmental standards. The floors still have a 10,000mm hydrostatic head, which it the highest in the industry. woof.

[wayno]

topic has been split off into

Toxins in Outdoor Fabrics
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12868

[Nuts]

I don't have any experience with modern Macpac floors (or jackets). It does sound like interesting, useful feedback.
As for wanting a debate and expecting a response you can only ask.. you can speculate of course. Some of the reactions aren't very polite are they. Anyhow, I haven't bothered to read back far, cut the discussion of Toxins to another thread, I could be wrong but if 'macpac have gone to the dogs' the answer hopefully isn't from an effort to use less toxic processes.. (if so then i'm sure they'd know this already... put back the toxins? ; ) )

[wayno]

sometimes it can be hard to be polite if people have spent hundreds on a product in good faith that doesnt perform as a previous version of the same model did or the one you buy doesnt perform as you expect based on your belief about the vendors reputation. these are big financial decisions for some people. in some cases all their spare money is going on these items and they find they don't have what they thought they were buying.

[blacksheep]

sometimes it can be hard to be polite if people have spent hundreds on a product in good faith that doesnt perform as a previous version of the same model did or the one you buy doesnt perform as you expect based on your belief about the vendors reputation. these are big financial decisions for some people. in some cases all their spare money is going on these items and they find they don't have what they thought they were buying.

To be clear, no one who sells in USA or Europe uses PVC now.

[wildernesswanderer]

I've pretty much just refrained from commenting on this, but I have never met a company yet that can satisfy every customer, but gone to the dogs is a pretty crude statement. I've alway been a firm believer in if you don't like something just move on. So far of all the camping store I have been to in Melbourne Macpac and Backpacking Light have had the best staff, best knowledge. I like Macpac's stuff, but I own a Hilleberg Tent and S2S Sleeping Bag. I'll keep buying the stuff as long as it's good and lasts well, so far so good for me.

[corvus]

I had a Microlite, good tent but did not suit me, a Stellar, same comment however both were NZ made and almost bomb proof just did not really fit into my requirements so I moved on .
To say MP has gone to the Dogs is really a bit too cheeky as many of their products are up to and more than exceed what is offered by their competitors .
We have water bottle holders that are tough and practical (albeit a we bit heavy) Merino Fleece thermal tops and Down Vest (on sale price) that we cannot fault so even the small items have a quality feel about them .
corvus

[forest]

Just thought I'd post this little story up.
Now don't get me wrong, I own very few macpac items as I find I can buy lighter gear, cheaper, online.

This morning I wandered into my local store looking to purchase a Pulsar Jacket (I had a $100 voucher). The sales guy was very helpful and gave me the usual spin on the product, he backed it up with some real world use too so it wasn't just the usual blah blah of gear sales people that just peddle gear with no actual field experience.
Crunch came to crunch and they didn't have a black one in my size. Damn I wasn't getting a orange one...with a blue zipper.....
But it was no issue for them to just process my gift voucher over the phone straight away to another store. The jacket is being express posted to my house, should arrive tomorrow, all for free. That also suites my requirements as on Saturday morning I'm off to NZ again. Great chance to test it.

The alternative would have been waiting for the next order to arrive before I would have to travel back into the store to buy it. The fact that this option wasn't even suggested was great customer service.
Not just the usual come back again story which is all too common if somethings not on the shelf. The sales guy just wanted me to get the jacket with my voucher, plain and simple, no hassles.

Good work Macpac, You might have notched up a few more points for me with that one. So it's not all bad.
Unlike a lot of the other gear that "for me" is generally too heavy the Pulsar jacket seems like Macpac are really looking at using lighter/top shelf products to manufacture some gear.
I must say though the RRP of $299 is a bit of a....... Lucky it's on sale......
Shame about that sales model....

[wayno]

rrp's seems today you have to inflate the rrp so when you have a sale you are matching the % off of the rivals like kathmandu and their 60 to 70% off doesnt look so good if you are only taking 20% off, seems to work for kmandu, their profits are going through teh roof. and if you buy at rrp there you're getting ripped off....

[mikethepike]

ok, I know I should let this dog lay down and sleep, but allow me this ..

Raising prices at the same time? Let’s look at a five Macpac classics:

The RRP of the NZ made Olympus in the Summer of 02/03 was $999.
Immediately after the move off-shore the price was $899.
The Summer 07/08 RRP was still $899 – just before we started to open our own stores.
Currently the RRP is $899... now $539 in the Winter Sale.

The RRP of the NZ made Torre in the Summer of 02/03 was $499.
Immediately after the move off-shore the price was $479.

[/quote]

This comparison by blacksheep of prices differences between on and off shore manufactured items highlights something that always used confound me when, not that many years ago, I'd go in an outdoors retail shop and see big cost items such as packs and down sleeping bags made off-shore and on sale at ONLY 10% or so lless than the cost of similar items still being made locally (Aust and NZ). Incredible! How come? Why so small a difference given the much lower wages and labour overhead costs in Asia? Either the cost of materials must make up the vast proportion of the cost of these items which seems most unlikely or there is some other explanation. I don't think that I need spell that out!

[wayno]

you have to admit at least some of the fabrics used arent cheap, the manufacturers arent selling everything for peanuts, you can buy some generic brand rainshells dirt cheap, but the likes of gore tex and event are charging premium money for their material...
but you still have the regular, heavily discounted sales

[Jack o]

I have recently returned from two weeks of glacier skiing in Austria.
During this period I trialled the MACPAC merino layering system of clothing and I’m pleased to report that it was excellent. Most of the time I was very comfortable with just a base layer, mid layer and soft shell hoody. This clothing system wicked sweat beautifully and by adding or subtracting garments, I was able to moderate my body temperature so that I was neither too hot nor too cold. The clothing system also proved to be very light, non constrictive and comfortable; which significantly enhanced my skiing experience.

Weather conditions experienced during the trip were mostly fine with intermittent periods of light to heavy snowfall and fog
Temperature range: -17C to -2C,
Wind: calm conditions to 70 km/hr.
Altitude: 1500m to 3400m
.

Austria 6.jpg (20.34 KiB) Viewed 12218 times

Attachments

Austria 5.jpg (18.26 KiB) Viewed 12218 times

Austria 2.jpg (23.6 KiB) Viewed 12218 times

[wayno]

awesome, so what were all the items you used for those conditions?

[Jack o]

The garments which I used from MACPAC merino layering system consisted of,

Base Layer:
2 x 150LS Crew
1 x 150 LS Sport
Mid Layer:
1 x 180 LS MTN
Outer Layer:
1 x 390 Hoody
Shell:
Soft Shell Hoody

[the-wanderer]

macpac have indeed gone to the dogs... as have fairy down. it wont take much research to uncover the facts on this subject- the facts being, that macpac and fairy down are now owned by KATHMANDU. a disgusting company whos marketing strategies far outweigh their commitment to quality. a short history on kathmandu: steal all of macpac and fairy down's great design ideas. use marketing to decive your "actual market". put outrageous prices on your average 'made in china" guff. what? $670 for an ultralite down jacket, well obviously it must be an amazing jacket- the best even? what about the fact that, rab, outdoor research, and COUNTLESS other brands are doing the same jacket for less than half the price (and using better quality down). kathmandu and now macpac and fairy down will all be charging 20-30 times or more the price it costs them to make the product, so inbetween sales idiots will pay this price for the products, then sale time comes around and what do you know? 60% off WOW!!! lets all rush in and pay what is still 12 times the worth of the garment/product. this has worked well enough for kathmandu to have enough money to accquire macpac and fairydown-and admit you have been thinking to yourself for a while now theres something similar about all these brands, listen to your gut- THEY ARE NOW THE SAME COMPANY. whereis old macpac had your interests at heart-new macpac, like kathman-don't-are more interested in tricking your hard earned dollars away from you- and in return you get feel like your on one of those terrible kathmandu ads- until your kathmandu hiking pole breaks. theses guys are the brand version of BCF and Anaconda. stay away- support the little guys- the ones who have your interests at heart. stupid people abound- dont be one of them.

[tasadam]

... the facts being, that macpac and fairy down are now owned by KATHMANDU...

Can you reference your source for this information please?

[wayno]

where do you get your information from?
jan cameron has invested in Macpac, two years after selling kathmandu. they are completely seperate companies.
looking at kathmandu they have a wider product range and fabric range in their clothing than macpac so wheres the evidence for stealing from macpac? if anything kathmandu use any number of companies as influence for their designs, not uncommon.

[Strider]

Macpac and Fairydown are actually owned by Mouton Noir. (mod)

[wildernesswanderer]

macpac have indeed gone to the dogs... as have fairy down. it wont take much research to uncover the facts on this subject- the facts being, that macpac and fairy down are now owned by KATHMANDU. a disgusting company whos marketing strategies far outweigh their commitment to quality. a short history on kathmandu: steal all of macpac and fairy down's great design ideas. use marketing to decive your "actual market". put outrageous prices on your average 'made in china" guff. what? $670 for an ultralite down jacket, well obviously it must be an amazing jacket- the best even? what about the fact that, rab, outdoor research, and COUNTLESS other brands are doing the same jacket for less than half the price (and using better quality down). kathmandu and now macpac and fairy down will all be charging 20-30 times or more the price it costs them to make the product, so inbetween sales idiots will pay this price for the products, then sale time comes around and what do you know? 60% off WOW!!! lets all rush in and pay what is still 12 times the worth of the garment/product. this has worked well enough for kathmandu to have enough money to accquire macpac and fairydown-and admit you have been thinking to yourself for a while now theres something similar about all these brands, listen to your gut- THEY ARE NOW THE SAME COMPANY. whereis old macpac had your interests at heart-new macpac, like kathman-don't-are more interested in tricking your hard earned dollars away from you- and in return you get feel like your on one of those terrible kathmandu ads- until your kathmandu hiking pole breaks. theses guys are the brand version of BCF and Anaconda. stay away- support the little guys- the ones who have your interests at heart. stupid people abound- dont be one of them.

Mmm may want to get your facts straight in case you look like the idiot you mention in your post