AARN packs

[north-north-west]

It's OK, I've had email contact and it's all set up. Now I just need to get a little less overtime so I can get in there and pick them up.
Thanks for the offer.

[nihil]

Hi All,

For my fist post on this lovely forum, I thought I might throw in my experience with Aarn packs.

I have been out with a Featherlite Freedom four times now, for 1 and 2 nights and I find it impossible to justify using any other kind of pack. I will be buying a new Load Limo or Effortless Rhythm, so I can do an 8 day Overland Track hike (if I didn't have to pack for alpine conditions I could definitely use the Featherlite freedom).

I just wish that Aarn had a better industrial designer, because I feel that, while functional, the balance pockets (and therefore the whole system) could use some better shapes and lines. I imagine what an Osprey pack would be like if Aarn Tate had full control over it as far as function and mechanics go, and collaborated with whomever is behind packs like the Osprey Aether.

There is no justification for having a pack put you off balance like a traditional design does. Hiking upright is the only thing that makes sense mechanically/ergonomically/aesthetically. And no matter how much mass up top and how well it contours the upper back, traditional designs cannot offset this design flaw.

Cheers.

P.S.: If anyone is looking for a hiking partner around Australia or NZ, hit me up I may well be able to come along; I normally do solo trips.

P.P.S (I just want to throw it out there that I am selling my Featherlite Freedom on eBay to go towards the purchase of a Load Limo so if anyone is interested shoot my a PM and I will send you a link to the auction page.)

[ULWalkingPhil]

Thought I might update on my Load Limo I picked up on Ebay a few months ago.

Wish I owned this pack 6 months ago on my 4 week hiking trip throughout Sydney and the Blue Mountains. I've never suffered from any discomfort in my back or shoulders since owning the Aarn Load Limo pack. I can remember with my OnePlanet McMillan at the end of the day, I couldn't wait to take of the pack, my shoulders would be so stiff and sore with that pack, I used to take it off every opportunity I get, Now with my Aarn pack, I don't bother taking it off till I arrive at my destination at the end of the day, often standing while taking my lunch break with pack on.

Very happy with the Aarn packs.

Showing my friend my Load Limo pack yesterday and he asked me what's the metal rod that goes through the back of pack and bends round with some straps fastened to the end, I said I have no idea, I've often wondered what the purpose of that metal rod is for myself.

[Wingnut]

I can remember with my OnePlanet McMillan at the end of the day, I couldn't wait to take of the pack, my shoulders would be so stiff and sore with that pack, I used to take it off every opportunity I get, Now with my Aarn pack, I don't bother taking it off till I arrive at my destination at the end of the day, often standing while taking my lunch break with pack on.

Maybe you just needed to work on building those shoulders up?

[ULWalkingPhil]

I can remember with my OnePlanet McMillan at the end of the day, I couldn't wait to take of the pack, my shoulders would be so stiff and sore with that pack, I used to take it off every opportunity I get, Now with my Aarn pack, I don't bother taking it off till I arrive at my destination at the end of the day, often standing while taking my lunch break with pack on.

Maybe you just needed to work on building those shoulders up?

I should have mentioned, I have a problem with my back, called Scoliosis a mild abnormal sideways curve in my spine, which can cause pain from excess weight on my shoulders.

[nihil]

I can remember with my OnePlanet McMillan at the end of the day, I couldn't wait to take of the pack, my shoulders would be so stiff and sore with that pack, I used to take it off every opportunity I get, Now with my Aarn pack, I don't bother taking it off till I arrive at my destination at the end of the day, often standing while taking my lunch break with pack on.

Maybe you just needed to work on building those shoulders up?

I can also attest to the lack of desire to take the pack off. I once set up half camp with Yowies and the Aarn pack due to laziness and a desire to maintain some extra insulation on my back as I was cooling down.

It's not just the shoulders, it's the whole body fighting to return to a neutral point, or centre of gravity. The Body is designed to walk upright and the pack allows you to do this. In a similar sense to the adage 'one pound on the feet is 5 pounds on the back', carrying a load with a neutral body position is like taking off 30-40% of a weight carried with a traditional backpack.

Last edited by nihil on Thu 13 Oct, 2011 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Marwood]

I'm also a happy Aarn owner - I've got the lighter-weight Mountain Magic 55. Though I agree with the previous posts, I have found the front balance pockets hard to get used to - no surprises there I guess. They're both useful and annoying. Useful because they're great for accessibility, but annoying as they tend to get in the way when pushing through scrub or scrambling. When going through scrub I need push on them with my hands or arms so they don't get caught and pulled out to the sides.

I have to admit I've had difficulties adjusting to a different way of carrying myself and moving around trees and suchlike in the bush. After many years of carrying a traditional and heavy pack, the habits of posture and maneuvering around things seem to be ingrained.

[Nuts]

There is no justification for having a pack put you off balance like a traditional design does. Hiking upright is the only thing that makes sense mechanically/ergonomically/aesthetically. And no matter how much mass up top and how well it contours the upper back, traditional designs cannot offset this design flaw.

I know people rave about these, that's great but..

I don't buy this, especially with lighter weight packing. If you can adjust a 'traditional' pack then go through the exercise of removing all weight off the shoulder straps (while its on) it should sit there, all the weight on the hips... If not the waist belt isn't working as it should (designed properly or hitched tight enough)?? Reducing pack weight and getting into the habit of readjusting/making sure the weight is off yer shoulders during the day should keep it that way?? The first thing i thought when these first arrived on the market was that they seemed like a good compromise for overloading and not packing properly??

[Dale]

I'm also a happy Aarn owner - I've got the lighter-weight Mountain Magic 55. Though I agree with the previous posts, I have found the front balance pockets hard to get used to - no surprises there I guess. They're both useful and annoying. Useful because they're great for accessibility, but annoying as they tend to get in the way when pushing through scrub or scrambling. When going through scrub I need push on them with my hands or arms so they don't get caught and pulled out to the sides.

I have to admit I've had difficulties adjusting to a different way of carrying myself and moving around trees and suchlike in the bush. After many years of carrying a traditional and heavy pack, the habits of posture and maneuvering around things seem to be ingrained.

I first picked up the Mountain Magic 55 but found the balance pockets moving away from the body - there seemed to be a problem with the shockcord 'slipping'. I changed the pack for the next model up - Featherlite Freedom and I haven't found that issue.

There is no justification for having a pack put you off balance like a traditional design does. Hiking upright is the only thing that makes sense mechanically/ergonomically/aesthetically. And no matter how much mass up top and how well it contours the upper back, traditional designs cannot offset this design flaw.

I know people rave about these, that's great but..

I don't buy this, especially with lighter weight packing. If you can adjust a 'traditional' pack then go through the exercise of removing all weight off the shoulder straps (while its on) it should sit there, all the weight on the hips... If not the waist belt isn't working as it should (designed properly or hitched tight enough)?? Reducing pack weight and getting into the habit of readjusting/making sure the weight is off yer shoulders during the day should keep it that way?? The first thing i thought when these first arrived on the market was that they seemed like a good compromise for overloading and not packing properly??

If you can pack light then the Aarn may well be overkill for you. However for longer trips where more food is required, or any situation where you need to carry more, than the Aarn is outstanding. There are only two situations where I find I don't get sore shoulders from a long hike - having a light pack or an Aarn.

I'm wandering whether the Aarn would work for Packraft trips... Will have to load up the gear and see...

[nihil]

There is no justification for having a pack put you off balance like a traditional design does. Hiking upright is the only thing that makes sense mechanically/ergonomically/aesthetically. And no matter how much mass up top and how well it contours the upper back, traditional designs cannot offset this design flaw.

I know people rave about these, that's great but..

I don't buy this, especially with lighter weight packing. If you can adjust a 'traditional' pack then go through the exercise of removing all weight off the shoulder straps (while its on) it should sit there, all the weight on the hips... If not the waist belt isn't working as it should (designed properly or hitched tight enough)?? Reducing pack weight and getting into the habit of readjusting/making sure the weight is off yer shoulders during the day should keep it that way?? The first thing i thought when these first arrived on the market was that they seemed like a good compromise for overloading and not packing properly??

Certainly when I am doing an ultralight hike (as in the methods from backpackinglight.com) then I am tempted to just take the balance pockets off - and often do if I am not doing a snow hike. However when you strip down to a 5-7 kilo range, you aren't helping the balance of the body/pack dynamic, you're just turning down the amplification on the inherent problem. It has to do with centre of gravity. If you check out the explanatory video on the aarn.com frontpage, you will gain an understanding. But essentially, our centre of gravity is approximately at our hips, and the centre of gravity of a back pack is, of course, at the centre of the pack (notwithstanding packing it with the heavy things high and close the to top of the back). No matter how well you pack the cavity, you will not be able to 'merge' the COG of the pack with the COG of your body, which is unergonomic, and therefore energy-inefficient. A lighter pack lowers the multiplication of that inefficiency to the point where the compensatory posture (a slight leaning forward) is negligible; it is not a fix thereof.

If you try an Aarn pack that has been properly packed with the right amount of weight in the front pockets (i.e. the heavy stuff like food, water and cooking gear) you will suddenly notice that an invisible force pulling you back has been taken away (even though you thought you had all the force of the pack on the hip belt). It's not a coincidence that obese people are fattest at the front of the COG of the body: i.e. the proverbial beer gut.

I hope that clarifies things.

[Franco]

The difference between a well constructed (and packed) traditional backpack and the Aarn becomes more obvious (for me) over 10kg or so below that if you are used to carry some weight and have no back problem than it isn't as noticeable.
However as you increase the weight from 10-12kg and up , it makes sense.
Not just to me and the Aarn fans, it has for millenia.






Note the difference in posture between the ones carrying the balanced and unbalanced weight

Franco

[Nuts]

When i was carrying heavy guide packs I would notice the dramatic feeling of dropping the pack and 'flying'. I guess even so, while definitely a forward pull, everything was basically symmetrical and the result was a killer six pack, never resulting back problems

Presuming iv'e watched the vid and get the explanation, with a light load i just can't see desired benefit being worth having those awkward pockets out the front. Iv'e tried front pockets, front packs, perhaps this is a better way of carrying them (makes sense) but i haven't 'needed' them in a long time. It's ok, each to their own and what works but i just don't see the fuss.. I did come close to buying one once but drew the same conclusions then..

Last edited by Nuts on Thu 13 Oct, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

ps..nice photo collection franco ; ) youv'e been around.. and for a while by the looks!!

[ULWalkingPhil]

The front pockets work for me, having easy access to cameras, food, GPS, water filter and upto 4 litres of water and still have room to spare, those expedition pockets are huge.

To get that weight including water out of the rear pack is a huge benefit to me.

Got the chance to test my pack last weekend on a warm sunny humid day with no breeze, hiking in the midday sun, I found the pack did not cause any heat discomfort like my Oneplanet McMillan pack did.

I think it's the best pack in a long shot that I have ever owned and probably ever will, unless I purchase a new Aarn pack.

[nihil]

When i was carrying heavy guide packs I would notice the dramatic feeling of dropping the pack and 'flying'. I guess even so, while definitely a forward pull, everything was basically symmetrical and the result was a killer six pack, never resulting back problems



Presuming iv'e watched the vid and get the explanation, with a light load i just can't see desired benefit being worth having those awkward pockets out the front. Iv'e tried front pockets, front packs, perhaps this is a better way of carrying them (makes sense) but i haven't 'needed' them in a long time. It's ok, each to their own and what works but i just don't see the fuss.. I did come close to buying one once but drew the same conclusions then..

With pack weights below 7KG I intend to get a cuben fibe pack so I can go really really light. For anything above that I would start to miss the centered gravity placement. However allow me to make an argument for the front pockets:

Before I hiked with it I decided that the added efficiency was worth it (and I am talking about the larger packs which fit 10 days worth of ultralight) and I reasoned that if the military can hack front pockets so can I.

Until you have hiked with it there's no way I can convince you that the front pockets aren't awkward, but the reasons they aren't are the following: 1) they provide a view the ground and the feet 2) the do not touch the body at all; they only touch the hip belt 3) the provide quick access to frequent use items meaning that you don't have to crack your main back pocket unit you reach camp. I often don't take the pack off for lunch break, and if there's a seat, I can fix blisters without taking it off. It's like trying to convince a person who doesn't wear specs that you don't even see the rims of your glasses unless you consciously observe them because you have gotten so used to them.

The only thing I don't like about them is the weird looks I sometimes get on more commercial trails. But I have recently reached the age-of-not-giving-a-hoot, so that's almost not an issue either hehe. Plus IMO there's a 'good function is good aesthetics' appeal to it when it's used right, e.g. here's Aarn (the man) up a mountain:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_TyRaf0hBoEE/THE9j ... lacier.JPG

[Stibb]

Any curvy females out there using Aarns front pockets? Doesn't seem to me to be a comfortable solution as we have enough up front to lug around ...

[gayet]

They, the bits out front, already provide the counter balance to keep you centred, so if curvy enough, there is no need for the added front pockets as a balance measure.

[Penguin]

When i was carrying heavy guide packs I would notice the dramatic feeling of dropping the pack and 'flying'. I guess even so, while definitely a forward pull, everything was basically symmetrical and the result was a killer six pack, never resulting back problems

Presuming iv'e watched the vid and get the explanation, with a light load i just can't see desired benefit being worth having those awkward pockets out the front. Iv'e tried front pockets, front packs, perhaps this is a better way of carrying them (makes sense) but i haven't 'needed' them in a long time. It's ok, each to their own and what works but i just don't see the fuss.. I did come close to buying one once but drew the same conclusions then..

I can't believe I am saying this - but I am with nuts on this one. I have done the "balance" thing with a hybrid 50l pack and a day pack in the provided clips on the front. I felt no change in my already forward stooped posture (congenital). The best thing for my is reducing the weight of the pack and doing core body exercise. The golite jam has been fantastic to date - although I have not worn it for more than two days in a row. I find the rucksack design fine for my back.

I am awkward enough off track as it is. More stuff hanging off the front or the back, would make me look like a member of he Keystone Cops.

But as with all these things - it is whatever floats your boat. I carry no great camera gear. With a lighter pack I can get it on and off easily, so not drama taking it off to get things. And the two front hip pockets are good for bits and pieces, like sunscreen, knives etc.

I walk with folk whom are carrying traditions 18 to 20kg packs and seem to have no side effect from doing so and there is no way that I can keep up with them. Their posture looks fine to my untrained eye.

On open track and a heavier pack I can see some advantages to a "balance" system. But for my pack weight and where I generally go I cannot see a gain for the complexity.

P

Last edited by Penguin on Thu 13 Oct, 2011 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ULWalkingPhil]

As I get older, there's one thing that don't bother me anymore like it used to. I used to always worry what people think of me, Would never contemplate wearing a pack such as a Aarn pack with the front pockets because of the looks from others. Always worried what other people think of me. Today, I don't give a $%%# what people think of me or what I look like, and I can never be any happier, it's like a whole burden is now of my shoulders. The way I look at it, if others look at me and think I look silly with front pockets on my aarn pack, there the ones with the problem and not me.

Last weekend, while out hiking I had someone comment at me that I look like I have great big boobs. I just totally ignored them, didn't even looks twice at them and just kept on walking past without so much a glance at them. I don't care what people think anymore. If it suites me and I feel great, that's what important, not what someone else thinks what I look like.

Now, to get back to this damn computer that's given me a nightmare.

[Stibb]

They, the bits out front, already provide the counter balance to keep you centred, so if curvy enough, there is no need for the added front pockets as a balance measure.

hehe, I guess we are more evolved as bushwalkers with a distinct genetic advantage

[nihil]

When i was carrying heavy guide packs I would notice the dramatic feeling of dropping the pack and 'flying'. I guess even so, while definitely a forward pull, everything was basically symmetrical and the result was a killer six pack, never resulting back problems

Presuming iv'e watched the vid and get the explanation, with a light load i just can't see desired benefit being worth having those awkward pockets out the front. Iv'e tried front pockets, front packs, perhaps this is a better way of carrying them (makes sense) but i haven't 'needed' them in a long time. It's ok, each to their own and what works but i just don't see the fuss.. I did come close to buying one once but drew the same conclusions then..

I can't believe I am saying this - but I am with nuts on this one. I have done the "balance" thing with a hybrid 50l pack and a day pack in the provided clips on the front. I felt no change in my already forward stooped posture (congenital). The best thing for my is reducing the weight of the pack and doing core body exercise. The golite jam has been fantastic to date - although I have not worn it for more than two days in a row. I find the rucksack design fine for my back.

I am awkward enough off track as it is. More stuff hanging off the front or the back, would make me look like a member of he Keystone Cops.

But as with all these things - it is whatever floats your boat. I carry no great camera gear. With a lighter pack I can get it on and off easily, so not drama taking it off to get things. And the two front hip pockets are good for bits and pieces, like sunscreen, knives etc.

I walk with folk whom are carrying traditions 18 to 20kg packs and seem to have no side effect from doing so and there is no way that I can keep up with them. Their posture looks fine to my untrained eye.

On open track and a heavier pack I can see some advantages to a "balance" system. But for my pack weight and where I generally go I cannot see a gain for the complexity.

P

Penguin, if you tried another front pocket setup then I can safely say that it's nothing like the Aarn. Your day pack convertible part probably was pulling on the strap to keep it up. Aarn packs hook or plug into the belt and don't place any weight on the strap except for a light connector that is there to keep it floating in suspension out front of the strap. Each pocket has a light metal guide rod which you shape to suit your own contour.

The result is that half the weight locks down into the back half of the belt, and half of the weight locks down into the front side of the belt, and any preasure on the shoulder straps is only there to stop the front and the back from falling away from their suspended 'floating' position (just like a normal pack but because there are two parts of the pack pulling away in oposite directions, they cancel each-other out and you get just a light pressure on the top of the shoulders).

behold my awesome drawing skills:



Then there's the fact that the straps all move and give and take as you move so your hips don't torque around if your pack does, and likewise if you rock your shoulders, the pack remains relatively still. There's a lot more there than meets the eye.

[Penguin]

Nihil

Cool drawing. I can see that the weight transference to the hips.

I am trying to keep weight and bulk down so the weight is close to my lower back. That way I do not get the pulling on my shoulders from the weight away from my back. Sorry no great drawing skill.

Different solutions to trying to move with élan through the wilderness.

[nihil]

Nihil

Cool drawing. I can see that the weight transference to the hips.

I am trying to keep weight and bulk down so the weight is close to my lower back. That way I do not get the pulling on my shoulders from the weight away from my back. Sorry no great drawing skill.

Different solutions to trying to move with élan through the wilderness.

Absolutely. The last time I used a normal pack was when I did high-school backpacking with ultra heavy gear and I was scrawny, with no real backpacking skills, so my love of the Aarn packs is probably exaggerated. To mangle a well known adage, 'different muscles for different folks'.

[Nuts]

You could try 'i agree with nuts' Peng?? (unless the agreeing is the hard part lol...)

Good diagram, I can see how (if your fine carrying front pockets) the system is better having than not. The backpack itself though, that is where the weight pivot should be anyway??
The COG thing I can't see it not compensated by building muscle groups (afterall, the weight itself isn't on your spine its on your hips..) I guess this is more of a problem though, I guess the design is a compromise to make things easier (Like high sided boots instead of building ankle strength)..

Phil i dont think they look 'funny' (any more than packs that come much above shoulders anyway..), go for it

[nihil]

You could try 'i agree with nuts' Peng?? (unless the agreeing is the hard part lol...)

Good diagram, I can see how (if your fine carrying front pockets) the system is better having than not. The backpack itself though, that is where the weight pivot should be anyway??
The COG thing I can't see it not compensated by building muscle groups (afterall, the weight itself isn't on your spine its on your hips..) I guess this is more of a problem though, I guess the design is a compromise to make things easier (Like high sided boots instead of building ankle strength)..

Phil i dont think they look 'funny' (any more than packs that come much above shoulders anyway..), go for it

Absolutely Nuts, as I said it's kind of a choice as to which muscles you want to use/what kind of movement you prefer. I would just argue that the Aarn packs make use of the body's usual system as much as possible. The design brief is, to paraphrase 'to disturb as little as possible the body's natural rhythm'.

Regarding the boot analogy, I have recently gone with trail runners for the lightness and more natural foot falls, which you could argue is also a way of utilising the body's natural movement.

[Bluegum Mic]

Whilst I don't own an aarn pack (happy for any donations however ) I will add my thoughts on COG, muscles used etc. As said in previous posts the bodies centre of gravity passes through the vertebral body of the third lumbar vertebrae. Best way to find that is to put your hands on the top of your ilia (which people call putting their hands on their hips. Your COG is deep central in their.

So whilst I agree if loading a pack you are best to carry the weight as close to your low spine and utilise the hip belt, from what I can gather the Aarn system is utilizing a similar dynamic as to what your body uses ie the body braces itself from the front and the back via core stabilizing muscles and large bracing muscles. They also criss cross front to back. A traditional pack regardless of how well its packed will always be creating a force from your back surface away and down from the body. You would have to swallow your pack and wait a couple of days for it to be truly centred over your core .

The way I see the aarn system is it distributes the weight evenly from the front and the back (if only we all were evenly distributed...mind you obtaining the beer belly is the fun part ) From what I can see with the straps and supports that the front and back force is sent down towards the hip belt and not the shoulders. So in theory if you drew a line of force from the front and the back towards that hipbelt im fairly sure it would intersect pretty darn close to your COG...well at least that's what aarn would be hoping.

Sorry for the ramble, hope it makes sense. Not saying Im right but just my understanding of the biomechanics of it all

[Penguin]

You could try 'i agree with nuts' Peng?? (unless the agreeing is the hard part lol...)

Good diagram, I can see how (if your fine carrying front pockets) the system is better having than not. The backpack itself though, that is where the weight pivot should be anyway??
The COG thing I can't see it not compensated by building muscle groups (afterall, the weight itself isn't on your spine its on your hips..) I guess this is more of a problem though, I guess the design is a compromise to make things easier (Like high sided boots instead of building ankle strength)..

Phil i dont think they look 'funny' (any more than packs that come much above shoulders anyway..), go for it

I just don't want you to take for granted that we may agree

The COG is interesting, as well as weight on the shoulders. With reasonable core strength, a close fitting 10 to 12kg pack will not affect posture greatly. Also by spreading the weight between shoulders and hips I am finding I have less pressure on a given area. The golight is frameless, so the packing is important. Getting the heavy items close to the small of your back gives the sensation that the pack weight is evenly spread - with no great pull on the shoulders.

I ca remember that a few years ago MacPac used struts in frames of their packs to move the weight forward on the hip belt (Quantum harness) - I am not sure whether this was more advertising than science.

Who cares what hiking gear looks like. Function over fashion any day.

PS how waterproof are the Aarn packs. There advertising makes a bit of a feature of this.

P

[nihil]

Whilst I don't own an aarn pack (happy for any donations however ) I will add my thoughts on COG, muscles used etc. As said in previous posts the bodies centre of gravity passes through the vertebral body of the third lumbar vertebrae. Best way to find that is to put your hands on the top of your ilia (which people call putting their hands on their hips. Your COG is deep central in their.

So whilst I agree if loading a pack you are best to carry the weight as close to your low spine and utilise the hip belt, from what I can gather the Aarn system is utilizing a similar dynamic as to what your body uses ie the body braces itself from the front and the back via core stabilizing muscles and large bracing muscles. They also criss cross front to back. A traditional pack regardless of how well its packed will always be creating a force from your back surface away and down from the body. You would have to swallow your pack and wait a couple of days for it to be truly centred over your core .

The way I see the aarn system is it distributes the weight evenly from the front and the back (if only we all were evenly distributed...mind you obtaining the beer belly is the fun part ) From what I can see with the straps and supports that the front and back force is sent down towards the hip belt and not the shoulders. So in theory if you drew a line of force from the front and the back towards that hipbelt im fairly sure it would intersect pretty darn close to your COG...well at least that's what aarn would be hoping.

Sorry for the ramble, hope it makes sense. Not saying Im right but just my understanding of the biomechanics of it all

I would say it's pretty close. First thing I noticed after walking with it for the first couple of hundred meters is how willing I was to jump up onto logs rather than step up onto them which is what I would have done before with an overnight pack weight.

Sorry to get so evangelical but I really sympathise with Aarn Tate because he doesn't want to sell out his patents but at the same time getting this stuff recognised almost requires it.
One of the keys is to recognise that there are things you pack that are 1/4 the weight and 1/4 the size too, like water bottle/sleeping bag, and if you divide things up fron't to back in terms of the front/back packs, you get a sense of totally balancing out, at which point you stand up tall and breath deeply!

[nihil]

PS how waterproof are the Aarn packs. There advertising makes a bit of a feature of this.

P

I've been snow camping and rained on with it, and as long and you have rolled it down 3 times before locking it down, it's quite waterproof. Just as waterproof as any ultra-sil stuff sack, which is what they are (it's a custom fit stuff sack with velcro lining to attach to the pack at the roll point at the top).

[nihil]

A diagram of centers of gravity with and without traditional pack http://imgur.com/gVmIe