No affordable good brands in Australia/NZ ?

[Franco]

Kogan is an Internet business. No shops, no retail staff demonstrating gear we then buy on the Internet, no penalty rates, no shoplifting ...

We usually end up blaming the importer.
maybe there is a business opportunity there.
No I am not interested because I do have a bit of an idea of just how "lucrative" that side is. That is IF I had a few spare millions of dollars, as it happens I don't so not really a problem I have.
But this is the real problem, it is very easy to find faults, not so easy to fix them.
Why not get a group of hikers together and start an import business ?
Just mortgage your houses and the banks will be falling over each other to lend you the rest.

[Strider]

Because, among other problems with low margin retailing in Australia, it is the manufacturers and distributors who call the shots on price, not the retailers.

Nothing new here. Pricing starts at the top, and additional costs incurred along the distribution channel then need to be passed on to the end consumer.

Manufacturers do offer different prices to retailers in Australia compared to other markets. To blame it mostly on freight is nonsense.

Market Based Pricing - again, nothing new. This is typically far more successful from a business perspective than is Cost Based Pricing. But keep in mind that alot of gear is contract-manufactured.

If you follow the activities of Kogan you can see that they are able to rip a large hole in the artificial price controlled consumer electronics environment on a frequent basis.

Harvey Norman are an example that has been in the news a lot lately. Increasing consumer awareness of huge markups is largely why their business model is failing rapidly. People simply won't shop there now they know the price has been inflated, sometimes by upwards of 500%.

[wayno]

i dont get paid any extra for working weekends, so i'm not ahead of the americans....

[wayno]

all this talk about distributors overheads. marketing et
thers a few big brands that i dont see much if anything in the way of locally generated advertising in new zealand.
i was trying to find Rab gear in NZ. you wouldnt know they sold it in nz . i had to find out who the distributor in nz was from the uk, then email the distributor and find out where they sell the gear in nz. only a handful of shops and only ski shops..... luckily one of those shops isnt far away. i go to the shop and find two models of rab gear in the shop,. no advertising anywhere in the shop that they sell the gear. mate of mine was trying to obtain some gear to do reviews of rab gear on his website, he had a lot of trouble getting anything from the distributor.... so exactly what is the distributors overheads? the gear is a lot more expensive here. $700 for a neoshell
hte distributor was telling my mate he doesnt make a lot of money,
i know bivouac which is a major chain in nz didnt want to sell rab, they just didnt need it in their lineup, sounded when i spoke to the manager like they already hasdenough gear and rab were late to the party...
so how hard are some of the distributors really trying? sure I'm sure some are marketing away and it is a market flooded with lots of different brands all competing for the publics dollar in a smaller population but different distributors are taking different approaches with mixed results and after all its not like they are employees they get a lot more take breaks than any of us who are permanent employees employed by someone else.... so how much money do these distributors fel they have to make? i'm not interested in paying inflated prices for something because the distributor is useless at marketing to sell enough to make a decent living and i'm not interstied in paying inflated prices because they want to afford a flash house, car,, boat private school for their kids, expensive holidays etc and they set the prices to make sure they have that lifestyle regardless of sales.
in queenstown when the recession hit the price of EVERYTHING there pretty much went up 20 odd percent in a year...... their income dropped when the recession hit, so everyone just upped their prices so they could maintain their standard of living.. and queenstown has never been a cheap place to do anything to start with..... its about the most expensive place in new zealand if you having to pay for anything.... i saw R&R sports recently have a nationwide sale, everywhere EXCEPT queenstown....
sure some people ork out lots of money to set up being a distributor and run the business but its not our problem if they are struggling to make a decent living , its not our responsisibility to prop up their lifestyles because the market is competitive and its hard to make decent money without massive markups.... we've all only got so much money to spend,,,, and we need to get better bang for our buck....

[wildernesswanderer]

The only reason Kogan is able to "rip a large hole in the artificial price" so to speak is because their goods are source overseas and therefore most of them com with no warranty from the manufactures in Australia. While they do offer a 12 month warranty, that warranty is covered by them and if something does go wrong with your goods they have to find somewhere to fix it at most authorised repairs won't touch them as they have contracts with the manufacture in Australia.

If you don't care about a warranty in Australia you may as well source the stuff yourself and you will save even more than what they sell for. There is a reason they are cheap

[Strider]

most authorised repairs won't touch them as they have contracts with the manufacture in Australia.

Authorised by whom? If you mean authorised by Kogan, then why would Kogan authorise them in the first place if they refuse to carry out the repairs?

[Franco]

One of the members at Backpackinglight (US forum) is a multimillionaire, not that most would know who he is...
So maybe there is a multi millionaire here too reading these posts thinking to himself that he could make a small fortune by importing outdoor gear into Australia and or New Zealand.
Of course it's easy to end up with a small fortune when you start with a large one.

Just realised that by an odd coincidence there is a clue to his name in this thread...

[Gusto]

Kogan has an interesting business model. Most of it's products are currently sold without GST. Kogan has a partner company in Hong Kong. Often when you purchase items you are actually purchasing them direct from Hong Kong. Kogan Australia offer customer support and 12 month warranty. Kogan Australia is the brains of the company, Hong Kong is where most of the goods are shipped from.

If the Govt changes import laws to include GST on goods below $1000 then Kogan products will go up by 10%

[wildernesswanderer]

My point about warranty with Kogan is that say you buy a DSLR Nikon camera and it dies. Camera Clinic in Melbourne are the Authorised Nikon repair centre for Victoria but they can't fix the camera as it not a Australian camera and therefore has no warranty in Australia. That means you ship it back to Kogan that have to honour the warranty somehow, they either ship it back to Hong Kong or they find some repairer (the cheapest) and get them to repair it.
I know so many shop on price alone and yes I also look at price but there are certain things I will not buy overseas, my camera gear is one of them.

But that's just me.

[etrangere]

I dont worry about warranties when buying online from O/S. Seriously if i look at the hundreds of items I have bought over the years that have a warranty covering them and how often i have needed to use that warranty, the percentage is VERY VERY low. Even then most of them would be vehicle warranty claims, JEEP = Just Empty Every Pocket!

The money I save buying online would far outweigh the money I have had to spend due to something not being covered by a warranty.

[blacksheep]

Why not get a group of hikers together and start an import business ?
Just mortgage your houses and the banks will be falling over each other to lend you the rest.

Now why didn't I think of that

[wildernesswanderer]

I dont worry about warranties when buying online from O/S. Seriously if i look at the hundreds of items I have bought over the years that have a warranty covering them and how often i have needed to use that warranty, the percentage is VERY VERY low. Even then most of them would be vehicle warranty claims, JEEP = Just Empty Every Pocket!

The money I save buying online would far outweigh the money I have had to spend due to something not being covered by a warranty.

Guess not but thats a choice you have to make, I'm a photographer and I guess as it's more my tools of trade than anything else I prefer the support I get from Nikon Australia. But that said I have bought stuff from overseas when my lively hood doesn't depend on it. But then everything I'm looking at in the USA they can't ship so I would have to go though a freight company or a friend over there, so I have to work out if the shipping and hassle is a big enough saving to warrant doing that, that said I still prefer to support local business where I can

[wayno]

I dont worry about warranties when buying online from O/S. Seriously if i look at the hundreds of items I have bought over the years that have a warranty covering them and how often i have needed to use that warranty, the percentage is VERY VERY low. Even then most of them would be vehicle warranty claims, JEEP = Just Empty Every Pocket!

The money I save buying online would far outweigh the money I have had to spend due to something not being covered by a warranty.

if you're buying a reputable brand the odds are in your favour you wont have to worry about calling on a warranty most of the time... and savings made outweigh the risk when buying overseas from quality brands
although I also buy my cameras locally, if you're buying something as complicated as that the chances something will go wrong in the warranty period is reasonable when you're forking out big money for a camera then its a different set of circumstances

[sim1oz]

I have shared the frustration with the pricing of goods in Australia when compared to the identical product overseas. Since I am buying gear for 4 people, the costs really do add up quickly. In the end I made the choice to buy some stuff over the internet and some things here.

With products unlikely to have issues, I'll happily buy reputable brands from overseas and either ask friends to bring it when they visit or get it shipped here. That pretty much covers our cooking gear, tents, sleeping bags, water treatment, etc. I saved almost 50% on Australian prices when we set ourselves up with gear for lightweight 7-day trips because the Aussie dollar was high and I didn't need to pay for shipping. I also bought a lot of our upper body clothes online such as merino tops, jackets, and rain gear. Ironically, it turns out that the merino brand I fell in love with and shipped from Canada is actually from South Australia, so now I buy my merino gear locally. Yay!

I do like supporting Australian businesses so when I want service, warranties, and/or a good fit, I buy my gear here and pay the price. That includes my pack, walking shoes, pants (the fit isn't as flexible or forgiving as tops are), inflatable sleeping pad, and a few things I wanted to actually hold (and weigh) before I bought them. I've discovered a couple of Melbourne stores where we've received terrific service and I've happily shopped there again.

Interestingly, I was looking at a Macpac tent when I was in Queenstown NZ, thinking I could get a great deal, and it turns out that the price is better here in Melbourne when it's on sale. One less thing to cram in my suitcase!

In the end you as the consumer 'vote with your feet (=buying choices)'. If you don't have or want to spend the money, then you need to put in the time to save up or find ways to reduce the cost. As Franco and many others have said above, the retails prices are unlikely to change overnight. The internet and price awareness are already having an impact (eg. Western Mountaineering sleeping bags at Paddy Pallin are close to US prices now) and will probably continue to move things 'closer' to price parity. If people on this forum want better prices, then they could probably be negotiated for group buying of popular items. But that takes time and someone willing to coordinate. Complaining is just a waste of time unless you are prepared to do something about it. In the end, it's your choice.

[wayno]

i have bought footwear locally in the past but i can get the same footwear for up to a third of the price overseas. i know my sizing now and i've done my bit to support local industry but who can afford to keep buying locally when there is such a massive markup?

[sim1oz]

Yes, a bit embarrassing, but I am still 'learning' my feet. Most of my friends buy their shoes online. I have funny feet so I prefer to try something new on before I buy. If I decide to replace my current shoes (which I am happy with) then I'll look for them online. But when I want new footwear and I take the time of a salesperson for help with fitting, then I'd buy them in the store as a thank you for the service provided. I hope they appreciate me, because I know lots of people use all the service and then walk out to order online. I keep consoling myself with all the savings I have made with our other online purchases. Footwear really starts to add up...

[photohiker]

Kogan is an Internet business. No shops, no retail staff demonstrating gear we then buy on the Internet, no penalty rates, no shoplifting ...

Kogan is a demonstration that at the wholesale pricing level, manufacturers/distributors/importers in Australia are taking high margins.

While the retailers in Australia may not be exemplary in their pricing models, they don't have a lot to play with when their wholesale purchase price is already above retail in other countries.

Starting yet another importer is not a solution. As we already know, the major Manufacturers mostly have preferred distribution channels and in any case they will sell to an Australian importer at the Australian distribution pricing level = nil advantage.

What the internet does is to remind manufacturers that their pricing structures have to be fair between countries or they will get a lot of bleed between markets.

[wayno]

black diamond asked me to complete a survey and add comments, so i bleated on about not being able to buy all the models i want in nz and cant buy online from the states since they block overseas sales. I didnt mention that i was bypassing the blocks.....
there dont tend to be the massive markups with black diamond in the local stores. by the time you pay postage you arent saving a massive amount. but murphys' law i see a model in their range and i cant find it for love nor money in australasia

[David M]

Remember where we are, Australia, other side of the world, and yes, gear can be expensive.

But the gear is mostly made in China and Australia is closer to China than most of the USA (West Coast perhaps a similar distance) and Europe.

Freight costs should not be a factor (and sea freight is cheap in any case).

[wayno]

once its been made in china it gets shipped to the vendors warehouses. most of which are in the states and europe. the stuff in aus may still be coming from those places.
you cant even buy a lot of the stuff thats made in china in china.. a lot of the western brands havent made inroads there. long distance walking isnt a major pastime there,australia is an afterthought with the big brands. some brands are selling stuff down under that is out of date.
columbia have a newer membrane . omni dry but most of the time in recent years they have been selling an older membrane omni tech. they didnt bring it down under for some time after it was launched in the northern hemisphere... plus theres a much more limited range of gear down under, when you lok at the overseas websites you see just how litle gear gets brought in which makes the ban on selling overseas from online shops even more frustrating.
the retailers just want to rationalise their stock and as people have mentioned not even get items in from the distributor especially when people request it...

some of the major brands do have outlet shops down under though , if you can find one they are worth a visit for some major deals. if you're planning to visit a major city look up the outlet shops...

[Strider]

once its been made in china it gets shipped to the vendors warehouses. most of which are in the states and europe. the stuff in aus may still be coming from those places.

Zebralight is an exception to this. I was able to track my package all the way from the factory in suburban Shanghai

This obviously requires either great faith in the contract manufacturer or very good quality control measures in place on the ground in Shanghai. Either way, it is an impressive business model, requiring practically no direct physical input from their headquarters in Austin, Texas.

[David M]

This obviously requires either great faith in the contract manufacturer or very good quality control measures in place on the ground in Shanghai. Either way, it is an impressive business model, requiring practically no direct physical input from their headquarters in Austin, Texas.

I would say that the reason that Zebralight quality is so impressive is specifically because they apply USA quality control measures to the manufacturing process. More than likely, they have someone from the Austin office supervising QA at the factory.

BTW, I have the SC600W and use it as my everyday carry (EDC). Impressive light.

[Strider]

This obviously requires either great faith in the contract manufacturer or very good quality control measures in place on the ground in Shanghai. Either way, it is an impressive business model, requiring practically no direct physical input from their headquarters in Austin, Texas.

I would say that the reason that Zebralight quality is so impressive is specifically because they apply USA quality control measures to the manufacturing process. More than likely, they have someone from the Austin office supervising QA at the factory.

BTW, I have the SC600W and use it as my everyday carry (EDC). Impressive light.

Agreed. But, I guess my point was, whatever they are doing it is obviously working and allows them to cut some significant variable costs. This obviously also allows them to offer a more attractive price-point. Comparing Zebralights to other $65 headtorches locally is a no brainer - there is simply no competition.

[Ent]

A big issue is the lack of spare parts in Australia for many of the leading brands. More than a few importers do not offer much in the way of customer service. This is where the do not ship bans become downright annoying as you just can not get the spare parts but with say MSR, Black Diamond, etc, the US stores have repair kits and spares but not locally. Also sizing such as Long fittings are not being imported or colour range extremely limited.

What has happened with me is I tend to get very frustrated trying to work my way around do not ship products so basically give up on ordering from most general online USA sites the traditional brands. Tend now to go for specialised brands on direct order. This means I am finding some excellent items such as the mentioned Zebralights, Spark, etc that kill BD lights on specifications and price. I tend to use Primus stuff rather than MSR simply as the price is cheaper, quality as good, and spare parts can be got. Basically BD and Cascade Designs are my last choice for an item nowadays. Sure I love my BD poles so will go to great lengths to get them but as for other stuff in the range no way. Also Aussie online stores such as MainPeak and Hiking.com.au can offer some good stuff on special so instead of getting BD mitts (locally none in my size and twice USA pricing and USA do not ship banned ruled them out from the USA) I brought Montane ones on special. Freight free helps. In the past I would have ordered around $1,000 from Campsaver, E-OMC, Moontrail, etc to moderate the freight cost but it is just too much hassle nowadays so getting bombarded with "we want you back". Yeap, very happy with USA online store service and pricing but just can not be hassled ordering something only to get to checkout and having it rejected. So I note the brand and put it on my "do not buy" list.

It is interesting that with stuff from new distributors Australian pricing is not too far out of step with USA but it is very obvious with MSR, Thermarest, BD that some serious price gouging is going on.

Regards

[wayno]

i have bought several items no problems from black diamond using a mail forwarding company

[maddog]

i have bought several items no problems from black diamond using a mail forwarding company

All quite possible Wayno, but I think that the contribution of Ent included the notion that brands that aid and abet the great rip-off are unworthy of further consideration, as there are so many alternatives to chose from.

Cheers

[wayno]

yup.local black diamond prices are nowhere near the worst of those brands though.

[David M]

Incidentally, Leatherman do not allow their USA sellers to export but I have bought several Leathermans from eBay (two from a Canadian seller and two from a US seller) that don''t follow this instruction. Most Leatherman sellers, however, will not export them. I have paid less than half of local price.

[Ent]

Interesting to examine one's own buying patterns of late. Normally I would place a large order with a large USA online shop for reputable brands about every three months. Within the group I walk with we would let each other know so generally near the thousand dollar mark would be the final order. This has not happened for a while as do not ship means working out the order just got too hard.

1. Mittens - Montane - Mainpeak. Were going to be Black Diamond but none at local shop and XXL sizing did not appear to be imported by distributor and on the USA sites do not ship.

2. Pants - Montane - Mainpeak (no long size available so more walking than a fashion item hence only one pair to replace worn out pair). My standard walking pant with first two pairs coming mail order from England.

3. Wind-shirt - Montane - Mainpeak. Walking friend has one so thought I would try one out. As with the above items all on major reduction that put them near overseas pricing. Free freight from WA helped.

3. Pants - Montane - Friend travelling in England so asked for long fitting from local London shop. Still bit shorter for fashion wear but better than the regular size. Price, was not asked so I think it was UK retail pricing.

4. Headlamp 2xAA - Spark overseas direct - brilliant power control with light output and can survive the second coming.

5. Torch - Jetbeam 18650 Raptor - Australia mail order as ony ten percent dearer (GST) than USA - if there is a better torch let me know.

6. Rain jacket - Mount Design Stratus Goretex Performance Shell - Local shop. Last of the "proper" rain jackets designed to withstand most things that the Tassie bush can come up with and at $244 comparable to USA pricing. A lot of USA and European specified goods are just not up to bush-bashing.

7. Pack - One Planet 60 litre long fitting - Australia mail order. Was told locally that the Shadow was only available in universal size (56 litres). For me One Planet is the best pack on the market and Australian made

8 GPS - Garmin Fenix - Australian mail order but yet to arrive. Ok, I am a gear freak and this is a case where Australian pricing was as good as or better than USA pricing.

A reasonable amount of expenditure that is scattered around the place and reflects quality plus price for items that appeal to me. Only one item locally brought as it was in stock so I could try it on so brought it as it fitted well (Stratus Jacket). With the mittens I looked at every local shop and would have likely paid Australian retail price but wanted to see if they would fit and feed-up of the "on order" hogwash. Big hint, when someone has size 49 feet please sales assistants do not claim that the large size will fit, it does not Can not buy Montane in local shops and driven mad by the never ending passing parade of brands that Paddy Pallin stocks. Just when you find a brand that suits you it is replaced with yet another brand I like to replace like with like so hate when going back finding my favourite item is not stocked. It is wonderful with mail order just to order the same thing again, and again. So I tend to be a bulk buy on special type shopper nowadays.

Pet hate is Kathmandu over inflated RRP followed by sales. Their gear quality and materials appears to be improving but flogging stuff at twice MD RRP and then having a "half" price sale does not work with me. And as for "special member price", heck even Chickenfeed is now doing this.

Cheers

[Nuts]

Lol, Will your pet hate eventually be not being able to buy anything but coffee locally? Who knows where this will end or more importantly when. It is certainly only short term satisfaction? One thing is sure, it's not only primary and secondary industry that will suffer, will the average wage again need to be $7.50 per hour? Those less easily identified by the outcome of their workday won't be immune.

Driving through Vic last week there are towns already reduced to a few shops, last time I saw that was at the height of a recession. No answers here either but this surely can't end well.

(Can't be bothered taking an item to a virtual checkout.. that's sad )

Sorry, got nothing for the OP, things are crook in France?