The Kovea Spider (KB-1109) Remote Canister Stove

[Strider]

This doesn't explain the sputter, but is still disappointing. Missing a screw!

[Strider]

Found it in the bag......

[Strider]

Well I've tried plain butane as well as Jetboil Jetpower gas mixture and still can't get this thing to run properly. Have sent an email to the Ebay seller describing the issue. Not really keen to fork out the return postage to South Korea so let's just hope he's reasonable about resolving things...

[Nuts]

Sounds partially blocked somehow? I would have thought they would loctite the screws into place though that base plate doesn't look crucial?
My first instinct would be to give it some vigorous taps while it is running. I have one of these on order so that is a bit disappointing quality wise.
Maybe one of these stove guys can suggest a fix if your supplier flees.

For Jim, if still visiting, we seem to have an issue with the new msr windpro's (perhaps other stoves similar to that and this spider using that grey cast cannister block) that i'll highlight somewhere soon ..once more definite about the cause...

[Strider]

It sputters when inverted even when not running. Dirty jet? I've had it apart and that's the only thing I haven't touched as I'm not sure what to prick it with.

Last edited by Strider on Tue 07 Jan, 2014 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Strider]

Double post

[Nuts]

It will probably be something simple, a blockage or bad alignment. Iv'e found with our various gas stoves that the other feed type problem is the hose/liner breaking down. I doubt this with a new stove unless there was an obvious crimp in the line.. I'd imagine you will need to pull it apart for any quick fix... i'd try to blow back through the lining before trying anything more invasive. Then probably a straw can of aerostart, wd40 or something similar to force liquid (back) through and loosen any blockage. Maybe message Jim or another owner who would have had these particular stoves apart?

[Strider]

I sent Jim an email yesterday. No reply yet. No success cleaning the jet either. Let's see what the EBay seller has to say..

[Mark F]

Best to remove the jet from the stove otherwise you just push any blockage back into the stove to cause problems later. When you view the hole in the jet it should be perfectly round. To prick the jet use a thin copper wire. Copper is softer than brass so won't damage the jet. A strand from electrical cable usually works - usually earth wires are multi-stranded - unpick one strand - make sure it is not larger than the jet hole.

[Strider]

I removed jet from stove and pricked with silver wire. I even tried removing the gauze and soft wadding from inside the jet. It appears the problem is further up the line.

So we're clear, I should be able to run the stove flat out with the canister inverted and without stuttering, right? I'm not getting any flares, just a put-put-put-put-put noise rather than a smooth output.

[Strider]

Jim agreed that his do not do what I'm experiencing and, although unlikely to damage the stove, it is probably worthy of a return from the supplier.

[Nuts]

They can block in the feed screw valve, there would usually be a pin to drive out to release the feed screw.
When the ends are both off- flush & blow. Iv'e even soaked the whole line in metho. You will likely need to do this sooner or later, even if they send you a 'good' one.

The only thing that (iv'e found) will stop these style of stoves is a breakdown somewhere in the feedline.
Oh, yer and the crap metal they are now using in the feed end block. Tapping a new thread might fix but prevention is probably going the only viable option ie. to be using the manufacturers brand cylinder and not over-tightening.. Manufacturers are 'supposed' to meet standard tolerances to use that lindal valve but I have my doubts especially for china direct stoves. If the cylinder threads are the same between manufacturers- the metal is just too soft!

[Strider]

The seller is claiming to have spoken with the manufacturer, who says this operation is "normal when the gas is shaken" - whatever that means.

Here it is running. Does anyone agree that this is normal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VHgjJlS ... e=youtu.be

[Avatar]

I'm going to make a few observations.
I have one of these stoves but I haven't cranked it up to a fully on position in liquid feed mode.
I tend to use gas stoves at a very low burn rate.
Correctly, you warmed up the intake loop first before turning the canister over while at a low setting.
The sputtering appears only to occur on your stove under those 2 conditions: liquid fuel flow rate near fully or fully on and in liquid feed mode.
The sputtering is typical of liquid fuel stoves like the Svea 123 shellite stove, especially when turned up on full blast. We used to called them "choofer" stoves.
The sputtering seen on your Spider is less than that produced by other liquid feed stoves.

I don't have any concern over the stove performance as per your video.
I would be more concerned if the stove just stopped functioning with the valve open.

[Strider]

Avatar - would you mind doing a little bit of testing to see if you can replicate what I'm seeing?

[Nuts]

The seller is claiming to have spoken with the manufacturer, who says this operation is "normal when the gas is shaken" - whatever that means.

Here it is running. Does anyone agree that this is normal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VHgjJlS ... e=youtu.be

Did you shake the gas? LoL

If that was my stove i'd- check the seal to the cylinder | try another gas (kovea) | pull the cannister valve fitting apart (remove a pin or screw?) | soak the line in metho and force air through...

It looks like there is some sort of minor blockage and you should really familiarise yourself with doing this anyway. I'm sure I saw a video when looking at this stove of a 'service'.

I'd agree with Avatar and the boffins that these stoves are less efficient flat out. I'd also agree that white spirit stoves would choof, the whisperlites eg. when they were over-pressurised, not sealed properly or when starting to block. The other gas stoves we use, windpro, however- that spluttering would be a sign of something amiss, probably nothing major (unless its within the hose/line)

I'm not sure what 'expediated' shipping means in practice but I should have one of these to play with soon.

[Strider]

I think "shake the gas" means run in liquid feed mode.

I've been offered a replacement but if this behavior is normal obviously I won't bother going through all that.

I have tried several types of gas, cleaned the jet, removed the wadding from the jet. I agree the problem seems further up.

I was going to put a length of copper wire in the preheat loop but can't easily get the fitting undone and am worried about accidentally damaging the braze in any attempts.

[Strider]

Ok so I have it apart and giving it a good clean...wish me luck

[Strider]

Cleaned out the canister block, reverse flushed the line with an inverted canister, pushed copper wire into preheat loop in the hope to clear any blockage. Zero improvement - time to initiate the return process I think.

[Nuts]

Getting to know it then.
I'd still wait for the verdict from Avatar or someone else, maybe the jet just lets out more gas than the burner head can handle..
so many possibilities for such a simple device.

[Strider]

maybe the jet just lets out more gas than the burner head can handle..

Then wouldn't that suggest the jet is inappropriately sized?

The stuttering starts just after the valve is opened. Very very little adjustment in inverted canister mode. Hard to see in the video but the flame is mildly flaring yellow. The seller has offered to replace it so I have taken him up on this - if the next one does it too then I'll accept it, but for now it definitely doesn't seem right.

This is an extremely popular stove, claimed by many to be the best on the market currently. I'm sure if this behaviour was common there would be some mention of it somewhere on the internet, regardless of whether it negatively affects performance or not.

[Nuts]

You may well have got a friday arvo stove.

As mentioned before, i'm a bit suss about that grey metal canister block. The new msr windpro too has changed to a suspiciously similar looking swivel-block and the metal appears soft. It may be from over tightening, perhaps not using msr cylinders but we have two new ones with little thread left, to the point that they wont hold the hose.. which is a bit alarming (never with the old design).

I'd advise not over-tightening and perhaps only using Kovea/ matched brand cylinders perhaps (i know they are all supposed to be the same fitting).

[Strider]

I've never seen Kovea canisters for sale. Are they available in Australia? I've tried a Primus and a Jetboil. The Jetboil canister openly states "Made in Korea", whereas the Primus one does not say.

The Windpro II block doesn't look exactly the same, but it is well known Kovea are an OEM for MSR.

[Nuts]

Yeah, the windpro has a groove to fit the equally sus plastic can stand. Allgoods sell the white Kovea cylinders up here (iirc). I doubt it will be the cylinder unless the thread is very slightly different.. it's not meant to be. Cheaper, softer, lighter metal i'm thinking.

[Avatar]

I just tested one of my Spider stoves for you and watched your video again.
I got a small amount of choofing at about 1/2 full on in liquid feed mode.
This resolved in to a half frequency but higher amplitude pulse at full on.
Nothing I'm worried about, but having said that it was a bit lower amplitude and frequency pulsing than your video.
The heat produced from a setting of 1/3 to 1/2 full on doesn't seem to be that much less than a full on setting.
Your call on a return to vendor.
Product calibrations vary around a mean, my best guess is that yours may be a bit below average and you will probably get an improved instance on a return.
One thing you might try is to leave the copper wire in the pre-heat tube and test it again.
This might then avoid a vapourisation bubble that is supposed to form down the middle of large calibre tubes.
Having said that, the Spider does seem to have a small pre-heat tube anyway.
Let us know how that goes.
Oh, and I used Butane gas.

Last edited by Avatar on Wed 08 Jan, 2014 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Strider]

Thanks very much for doing that. I agree that it's unlikely the sputtering would disappear completely, but likely I'll receive a better example in return. Here's hoping anyway..

P.S. Not an option leaving the wire in there - the opening to the preheat tube is only ~1mm.

[Avatar]

Try a thinner wire. Like a guitar 1st string 0.008" or so.

[Strider]

Try a thinner wire. Like a guitar 1st string 0.008" or so.

Like I said, seller has offered to replace. Enough of me stuffing around with it

[Avatar]

There is a small chance you will get a lesser performing sample, or one with another problem. I'd chase down every reversible solution while you can.

[Strider]

There is a small chance you will get a lesser performing sample, or one with another problem. I'd chase down every reversible solution while you can.

Fair point. I'll hunt down a smaller diameter wire tomorrow and give it a try.