Intelligent ways to save weight

[andrewa]

Several years ago I read Roger Caffin's site about gear, and found that immensely useful in planning what gear to take, and thinking of gear design ( I'm fortunate that I make much of my own stuff, so can choose lighter weight materials, and minimise weight by designing items specific to the purpose).

I know the ?Jewish idiom (not wishing to be offensive to anyone...) of "count the cents, and the dollars will follow", but, in terms of gear design and choice, I'm not convinced that this is the best approach, especially after reading Roger's stuff. I agree with him that commercial gear IS over designed to ensure it survives general useage/ warranties etc.

My previous commercial rucksacks weighed about 2-3 kg. Make the same rucksack from lighter fabric ( ~4oz) and make a non- adjustable harness system that suits your size, and you can make a 60-80 l pack that weighs 1.4kg ( this is my current pack..yes, I know that the question will arise as to why I need such a big pack, but I do combine various pursuits of walking, packrafting and fly fishing, and spend 10 days at a time in remote bits of NZ, so there can be a large volume of $&/@ to carry, just to facilitate multiple pursuits). I could make a similar pack from 1.5 oz Cuban, and it would weight a lot less, but With any of this light weight gear, you have to be careful using it. My point is, cut rucksack down to 5-800g....that's a lot of toothbrush handles etc to remove to get that weight saving.

I look at the wight of any new gear I buy....surprisingly it often isn't listed....and will only buy new stuff if there is a "significant" weight saving over old stuff I have, and if the function is also improved, or the gear becomes dual purpose - eg Montbell thermawrap pants and Bozeman Cocoon Parka at about 300 g each provide evening insulated clothing, and allow me to take lighter home made quilt , and sleep in them for added insulation.

And food... For a night or two, what's wrong with a packets of 2 min noodles - breakfast lunch and dinner. Heaps of calories.

Beyond that, it comes down to how much you want to enjoy yourself. You could take Spartan's "belt and loin cloth" comment conceptionally, which my nephew does each year when he goes "belt camping"...only taking what you can carry on your belt, and he survives, or you could just carry a space blanket or two and a chocolate bar. I reckon most of us would survive with that, and its way below the 2 point whatever kg base weight that we don't talk about.

What you take depends on what you want out of the trip, and needs to based on your previous experiences in the bush Orion's post was very fair. You make your own lists dependent on your comfort zone. They evolve. You can't just take a list, and off you go.

One of the lovely things about this forum has been the lively discussion. Discussion allows evolution of ideas. But I'm not going beyond this.

Andrew A

[KANANGRABOYD]

+1 LOL

[radson]

Hmm, have I missed it? What about the most intelligent way to save weight. People spending $100 on saving grams and could just eat less potato chips for the same result

[wayno]

front porch helps counter balance the pack weight...

[GPSGuided]

Hmm, have I missed it? What about the most intelligent way to save weight. People spending $100 on saving grams and could just eat less potato chips for the same result

Eating healthy is expensive these days too. Have you not been to an "organic" grocery store and check out their prices lately?

[wayno]

Hmm, have I missed it? What about the most intelligent way to save weight. People spending $100 on saving grams and could just eat less potato chips for the same result

Eating healthy is expensive these days too. Have you not been to an "organic" grocery store and check out their prices lately?

not true
lentils or beans $5 a kilo, one kilo cooks up to be three kilos of good nutrition. ad veges or rice....

[photohiker]

Hmm, have I missed it? What about the most intelligent way to save weight. People spending $100 on saving grams and could just eat less potato chips for the same result

+1 However in my case it would be considered unhealthy to reduce my weight, and counter-productive as it would require losing muscle mass - there aint much fat left

As other's have probably said, the other most intelligent way of saving weight is to buy lighter gear as your old stuff needs replacement.

[GPSGuided]

Hmm, have I missed it? What about the most intelligent way to save weight. People spending $100 on saving grams and could just eat less potato chips for the same result

You do realise that it's harder for a light person to carry a heavier weight. Body weight acts as a balance to the pack and those chips are needed for a a reason.

[Joomy]

You would think there would be more productive ways to save weight than worry about a few gms of toilet paper but according to this thread it is the most important thibg to cut back on!

Well, a roll weighs about 85g, which is more than some stoves!

What ARE the Bushwalk Australia approved weight saving methods? Every single one put forward seems to get resoundingly ridiculed.

Much easier to find 10 ways to find 200 grams than one way to find 2000grams.

This is an excellent point that is often overlooked or scoffed at for some reason. When you start saying "oh this item is 200g heavier but it's worth it for this reason" for 10 or 20 items suddenly you are carrying 2-4kg more than you could otherwise. Sometimes it's unavoidable and sometimes there's a lighter way to do it that doesn't require much sacrifice in terms of comfort or safety margins. Some people take this to extremes, and that's fine for them, and some others of us take the middle approach, which as mentioned means generally spending time or money lightening the things that make the biggest weight contributions.

The pack is generally the heaviest item, especially if we are talking 80L canvas monstrosities. By switching to one which as Andrew said is made of a lighter (but durable enough) fabric, has a simple but well-fitted harness and is only JUST big enough to carry all your items, the average "pre-enlightened" hiker can probably shed at least 1kg for relatively little cost (simpler, smaller packs are generally cheaper).

Shelter is the second heaviest item/s most Aussie bushwalkers carry. IMO even lightweight double wall tents like the Hubba Hubba are unnecessarily heavy for non-snow camping situations in mainland Australia. Tarptent-style tents are a good 500-800 grams lighter and cheaper to boot. SW Tassie and Main Range in winter are different obviously, but even then a nice light tunnel serves just as well as a massive geodesic.

Lightening sleep systems is sometimes seen as dangerous, but I see it as a great place to save weight by exploiting the complementarity of items. Basically this means exploiting (and fundamentally reducing) redundancy while still maintaining an safe margin. Many people have a set of heavy warm clothes, a heavy sleeping bag, and never combine the two, instead sleeping in little more than thermal underwear while their warm clothing acts as a pillow or something. Instead I say get a light air pillow (more comfortable anyway), a lighter sleeping bag, and plan to wear more clothing to bed on cold nights. Mountaineers, who are the ones who really can't afford to have too much redundancy, have been doing this forever. Ideally on the coldest night you should have most of your clothing on inside your bag and be comfortable. More than that is a waste. Of course it's hard to predict exactly how cold the coldest night of a trip will be so some margin of safety is necessary but the idea is to not have twice as much insulation as you need. Having enough clothing to keep you warm while active during the day, and then hopping into your sleeping bag when the temps drop and you start cooling down yourself, and then combining the two on frigid nights will save significant weight and bulk (which is its own kind of weight-savings since you can bring a smaller pack).

[wayno]

a down jacket can be used with your sleeping ssytem, you've got something to keep you warm in your camp and boost your warmth in your sleep system and be able to take a lighter sleeping bag, take a really warm bag and less clothes and it means youve got less to keep you warm before you get into your bag...

[Orion]

a down jacket can be used with your sleeping ssytem, you've got something to keep you warm in your camp and boost your warmth in your sleep system and be able to take a lighter sleeping bag, take a really warm bag and less clothes and it means youve got less to keep you warm before you get into your bag...

That's true if you need a down jacket during the day. But if you don't need a down jacket when you're moving then it's more weight efficient to have a slightly warmer bag instead.

[wayno]

yes all depends on the weather and how likely you are to need a warm jacket in camp. theres a range of down and synthetic jacket weights to choose from mont bell make sub 200 gram insulated jackets for instance, jackets can go up to 800gm in weight, . get something that isnt overkill or too cold.

[radson]

I agree Wayno and good to see no-one is advocating that ol' chesnut that sleeping naked is warmer in a sleeping bag

Those crazy kids at PHD have a variation on the jacket and bag theme as well. http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=364

[wayno]

I agree Wayno and good to see no-one is advocating that ol' chesnut that sleeping naked is warmer in a sleeping bag

Those crazy kids at PHD have a variation on the jacket and bag theme as well. http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=364

that may depend on who you are sleeping with !

[wayno]

yeah theres the odd brand in the states that makes those half sleeping bags, cant remember which ones off the top of my head, more the cottage industry brands... not a bad concept. but bear in mind most down jackets arent as warm a constrution as sleeping bags since most sleeping bags don't stiched right through the compartments joining the outside fabric together, whereas most down jackets do, so you have loft all the way through a sleeping bag without cold spots

[Stonie]

Intelligent ways? gram counting your gear is only part of the picture.

• If you are carrying body fat lose it with extra fitness and diet before you go. An average person can shed 5kg pretty easy. if you are a bit overweight there are some big savings to be had here.
• Stop your stuff getting wet. Use a pack cover and a series of drybags (ultrasil) inside your pack if hiking in wet conditions. use a proofer on the outside of your gear. wet gear is heavy.

Stonie.

[nq111]

Another good way is to save is footwear weight - where 100g saved is equivalent to 500-700g in backpack.

Don't get me wrong, i consider myself a boots person but I believe the advantages stated above.

Out of frustration in not being able to find suitable boots for the tropical end of the country (I would prefer a proper boot but light and fully drainable / breathable) I have been using Invo8s and ankle braces and the benefits are clear.

A really bad way to save weight is not carrying enough water in dry country. It can be tempting with water being so darn heavy. Running out of water in the hot bush is the most unpleasant (and scary) experience.

[stry]

Intelligent ways? gram counting your gear is only part of the picture.

• If you are carrying body fat lose it with extra fitness and diet before you go. An average person can shed 5kg pretty easy. if you are a bit overweight there are some big savings to be had here.
• Stop your stuff getting wet. Use a pack cover and a series of drybags (ultrasil) inside your pack if hiking in wet conditions. use a proofer on the outside of your gear. wet gear is heavy.

Stonie.

Good thoughts, particularly the insidious effects of your gear soaking up water.

But if I shed 5 kilos of body weight, I'd need an anchor

[Joomy]

a down jacket can be used with your sleeping ssytem, you've got something to keep you warm in your camp and boost your warmth in your sleep system and be able to take a lighter sleeping bag, take a really warm bag and less clothes and it means youve got less to keep you warm before you get into your bag...

Lol I guess my post before yours was TL:DR for most people, since that was essentially the gist of my last paragraph. The thing you have to keep in mind with wearing a down jacket inside a sleeping bag of course is that there is enough room for the down jacket to loft sufficiently. If you have a super-tight mummy bag your puffy won't loft properly and won't provide as much warmth.

[GPSGuided]

But if I shed 5 kilos of body weight, I'd need an anchor

Then that would be called unintelligent.

[Onestepmore]

Warning poo talk ensues......

God, I hadn't realised how methodical I had become about business in the bush until I wrote this. Haha!

Lol, and this from someone called 'Pongo'

BCF sell loo paper that doesn't have the hollow inner. It's not the nice soft stuff though.

Does anyone use the method of wiping with a small soft cloth like a microtowel and then rinsing well? Obviously this would be the towel's sole dedicated use, so no multi-tasking here! Would be dependent on water availablity.

Some of my weight saving measures
I like to remove any extra packaging from food, and repackage, mix stuff like milk powder and dried fruit and cereal into meal sized portions.
Eat dehydrated meals in the bag in a foil cozy instead of taking separate bowls.
Don't take commercial first aid kits - remove a lot of the unnecessary stuff they include, repackage into a ziplock bag. Easier to see stuff too
Repackage sunscreen, moisturiser (I always take this), fly repellant cream into smaller containers. You can get individual biodegradable soap leaves. I take a small hotel soap bar in a small plastic container too, in a ziplock bag. Small resealable pack of baby wipes, small alcohol hand sanitiser bottle.
Don't carry a hand torch, like we originally did, then we used a smal hanging lantern. Now it's just a head torch (I use a one battery Zebra one)
I layer clothes - so that lighter insulation layers can also be used to sleep in if needed. Down packs better than fleece, and I like it best. But fleece is better if it's get damp, comes in lots of different weights. Thermawrap or primaloft is going to be better than down in the damp, but doesn't compress quite as much. Allows you to use a lighter sleeping bag.
Wear a down hat at night like a Blackrock one at night or a down hood
And use a hoodless bag or a quilt that can open up - this has been our recent purchase when my son upgraded his sleeping bag from a heavy bulky synthetic one to a zpacks bag that can also do dual purpose as a hammock quilt when opened up. We haven't explored the baseless katabatic type quilts yet.
The other thing we've done this year is we now have two UL Mont bell super spiral bags that can zip together. I was really impressed with the one I had for a while first, so we got a second to upgrade hubby's heavy down bag. Hubby's is less warm than mine but I feel the cold. He's a heat radiator and warms me up, as i'm a cold sleeper. I had cosidered getting a double bag like a Feathered Friends Spoonbill but a) they are expensive b) while lighter than 2 separate bags they really only have one use c) two separate bags are more versatile d) I need a warmer bag than hubby
Swapped out for light synthetic bags like the Caribee Hyperlite or Plasmalite in summer for the kids, Kathmandu Comet for hubby and I. I've got a WM Summerlite for mid season
I still always use a silk bag liner - negligible weight and will increase the life and cleanliness of your bag. Always wear your clean socks in your bag. You can get inexpensive double teksilk liners form Thailand off e-bay.
Gloves at night too in winter. Buff for neck protection - can use it like a balaclava over your mouth if it's cold, can also have to go over your head too as an additional layer under a beanie. I like dual purpose. Buy long sleeved merino base layers with a light hood. More versatile for very little additional weight.
I don't have usually have anything 'spare' to use as a pillow in a stuff sac, but I do have a light one that has a microfleece side that can be used as a pillow in case I don't wear all my gear. I confess for comfort do always take a separate pillow - but that's a conscious decision.
I do still use stuff and compression sacks to reduce bulk - though I know loose packing is more weight and sometimes volume efficient (better use of corners and gaps in your pack), but I like to be able to FIND stuff
Use cuben or silnylon stuff sacs and pack liners with super small cords and tighteners.
I do take a spare set of clean thermals, undies and sock to put on at night before bed
Montbell anorak and wind pants, or Montane light speed wind jacket instead of full waterproofs if rain isn't expected. We always take rain protection, a beanie and gloves. The Marmot super mica jacket has been a good light waterproof choice, instead of always taking our heavier Goretex ones. Weather and season dependent of course.
Consider a short sleeping mat - my daughter has chosen to use a short mat and then a thermarest eggshell type sit pad for her legs - dual purpose. I still prefer a full length mat tho. The GG mariposa has a foam sit pad in it's back - dual purpose, so I could easily go for a short pad if I wanted to. Once again choice - lighter vs comfort
Cuben fibre tents if that's your thing (you can get some good 2nd hand bargains if you're lucky ) Or go the tarp/bugnet road instead of a full double skinned tent. Very terrain/season depent so many factors to consider.
Tyvec or polycro floor liner instead of the manufacturer's footprint. If we take one of the Hillebergs if the kids are coming too then we just use the integrated footprint, mainly due to ease and laziness!
Swap out your tent pegs for some carbon fibre stakes or easton stakes for the main guys, and lightweight ti skewers for the rest.
Replace heavier guy lines with smaller diameter dynema or zing it type guys, and smaller line locks (I know I could ditch the line locks and use truckies hitches etc but I choose to use line locks for speed and ease)
Use a smaller pack and utilise the belt bags and chest strap bags that are available - Gossamer Gear and Zpacks make some light ones, cuben available as well.
Don't use metal Sigg type water bottles or Nalgene containers. I do still sometimes use a hydration pack if I have my Gossamer Gear Mariposa pack, but otherwise just have a 600 ml water bottle in a cuben bag on the front strap, and a soft Evernew or Platy bag inside. If I use my Aarn pack, I carry my water on the front pocket, and have a small Evernew adapter that can fit onto any of their water bottles so I don't have to take the bottle out.
NB the Aarn pack means I don't need a separate bag liner or pack cover as it's got it's own integrated waterproof liner.
Replace any stainless steel pots or mugs with aluminium or preferably titanium.
Just take a plastic spork or spoon instead of a metal cutlery set. For eating out of a dehydrated bag go and steal one of the long handled black spoons from McCafe. Yoghurtland has nice sturdy spoons too
Bring a small canister if that's all you need - when we started out we'd carry the large gas canisters for a day walk for a lunch time cuppa! I've become slightly obsessed with stoves and have various alcohol and woodstoves to play around with, but for reliability the Optimus crux lite with a snow peak ti pot and a foil windscreen has become my go-to choice, but for day walks etc the heavier bulkier jetboil is still the one I take where the weight is less of a concern. For longer trips I always take a tiny fold out titanium esbit burner as a backup and a few tabs.
Water sterilisation - ditch the bulky ceramic filters. Lighter options are to simply boil, use a small steripen, or a sawyer queeze system, or micropur chlorine dioxide tablets, or Aquamira drops. All have their pros and cons. We use the USB charged Steripen, but always have a few tabs in the first aid kit as backup. I've only played around with the sawyer filter as yet.

Completely random. I'm sure there's others things I haven't thought of
We've changed our gear a lot from when we first started with Black Wolf packs, Roman sleeping bags, Kathmandu mats, steel water bottles and Oztrail dome tents!

[Onestepmore]

......Then chew nurophen plus (full of codeine) like tic tac's for the next 24 hours to keep you moving and stop the pain.
Locked me up big time and I don't recall dropping a #2 for about 5 days......and the first time it felt like a fist sized rock (too much info I know)

Forest....you know nothing
(I hope you've watched Game of Thromes)

Try giving birth
And the next few days after......

[Onestepmore]

Oh, and after a trip I go through my stuff and make a note of what wasn't used, or what could be improved upon.
Some things are always going to be there, like a first aid kit, PLB GPS and maps, a day's extra food, spare fuel and waterproofs, wether they were used or not.

I need to do this after regular travel trips too, as I always take way too much stuff on holidays

[wayno]

i think the super mica jacket is marmot not montane?

[Onestepmore]

i think the super mica jacket is marmot not montane?

Correct
My bad
Amended

[Onestepmore]

And I forgot about my dehydrated toothpaste dots!!

They were fun to make

[Onestepmore]

Mind you, we do all this, then take a litre of wine
Decanted into a platy of course!

[wayno]

heavy fleeces are a waste of weight, unless you need to wear it when you're walking, you're better off with insulated jackets, better warmth for weight and they pack down better, especially down...

[ULWalkingPhil]

Dr Bronner's soap is a great multi-use product. I use it as a toothpaste, soap and washing pans. Vvery concentrated, I take an eye dropper plastic bottle.

[Onestepmore]

yeah theres the odd brand in the states that makes those half sleeping bags, cant remember which ones off the top of my head, more the cottage industry brands...

Like these - the bags you' wear and can open up at the feet? so you can walk?
http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/other_bags/raku.htm

and the half sleeping bags that attach to a down jacket
http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_pr ... arc_at.htm

or the quilts that double up as a jacket you can wear round camp?
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/shop/sierra-sniveller/