Wintertising my tent Non-Theoretical discussion

[Moondog55]

Talking to rocket stove enthusiasts over at Winter Trekking it seems I need a third can to act as the heat exchange rather than using the flue pipe itself as the heat source. A good bit more mucking about but much more efficient it seems so if anybody has come across any formulae for calculating the size of said heat exchange I'd be grateful if you'd share.

[Moondog55]

Rather than open a new thread I'll tack these questions on here.
When I was at the tip last month dumping some recyclables I bought a cheap canvas tent because I wanted the 60 degree pole joiner that came with it. At the same time I picked up what was supposed to be the nylon fly that came with it. On unpacking and inspecting the nylon fly is actually from a geodesic dome.
My thought is to use it as a group shelter for this winters short trip ( this is assuming it happens) and while I would never again take a cheap 2 pole dome up the hills a 4 pole geodome is a totally different tent
My question for you all is; how much extra strength I might get from adding another pole?
I'll go outside now and take some photos of the partially erected dome

[Moondog55]

I've put this up using some of the poles in my stash of spare parts; so none of the poles are the correct length. I did this by adding a ring and pin at each guy out point.
Tent fly is 2200 *2200 and just shy of 2000 tall in the middle so a reasonable size for a small group which is why my thoughts about spending some time fixing it up.
All the guy points will of course need making much stronger but I won't bother making a start if it isn't worth while. My second thought is to add an extra wand running from front to back where the zips are. Apart from a few wear holes which are easily patched the fly is in OK condition

[Moondog55]

And of course I just get an email notification of a BCF sale where a similar sized Geodome tent is now $199-

http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/prod ... mendations

Cut out the woven poly floor and you get a decent sized group shelter that easily fits on a sled and weighs about 10 kilos, most of which is fibreglass wand
Not that I have $200- to spend

[Aidan]

Do be careful with regards fires inside tents Moondog.
Don't want to see your Mrs's trying to sell you on ebay, shrink-wrapped for posterity

[Moondog55]

Stoves in tents are for long term base camps
But an open fire in a 10 metre tipi perhaps

[Moondog55]

OK trying to use this fly with an internal frame won't work, at least not easily enough to erect in a storm, so a slight rethink is in order.
As part of my big destash I have salvaged lots of those Delrin tent pole hooks from tents destined for the recycling.
I have 19 of the tent loops as I broke one but I can find a substitute for the apex I would hope that 4 per wand side would be strong enough
Peg points down the tent would be re-done with 25mm polyester tape and some edge reinforcement and the same with the existing tie downs on the tent itself.
Before I go ahead and put 20 hours work into it I'd like some feedback and comments
If I start I'll open a new DIY thread

[andrewa]

What about sewing on internal pole sleeves? I did this once with good effect on a smaller geodesic. If doing so, make sure that they are big enough to easily slide the pole through - mine were a bit tight, and a PITA. You would then need strings or tape across the bottom between the pole ends.
A

[Moondog55]

I keep forgetting about connecting the front corners. I have the webbing here so I must do that
I want to do this the easy way Also I don't yet have the room to spread out and pin 7 metre tubes
As a group shelter for 6 to 8 where we all have our own storm proof sleeping tents I think near enough will be good enough This one is 3000*3000 plus a bit
I'll start the DIY thread tomorrow and I hope I remember to take lots of pictures
The walking foot is making sewing so much easier it has become fun again

[Moondog55]

DIY thread started

[Moondog55]

So the silver fly is finished and packed away.
Now I still need my own winter tent so back to that big one I got for $100- and that we used at Mt Franklin.
Going on other conversations regarding stoves in tents this one will get the floor cut out to save weight
If you look at the pictures of the second; larger tent the cheapest, best solution to the snow load problem would seem to simply another FG hoop centered between the existing poles and attached with pole hooks.
Open to ideas there please

[Moondog55]

Bringing this back to the top because as soon as our kitchen renovation is finished I'll need to start work slowly on the gear for Winter 2016
Thanx to another thread and input from other forum members, a way of making the cheap fibreglass poles strong enough has been found and I will have enough fuel money saved to take the trailer up and make a large dump of gear, food and firewood.
What I am having real trouble with is a design for the wood fueled heating stove as the cast iron Sheepherder type really wasn't suitable for the fuel I had and will have again next winter.

[Moondog55]

I think I have got the wood stove design fixed in my head now after talking to some others.
As I can't weld this thin Stainless steel I am going to use an old LPG bottle that I just paid $5- for at the test centre as the main firebox and use the stainless pressure tank as the heat exchange part
I'm now looking for a short off-cut of 200mm SHS as the feed section

[Moondog55]

I think I have got the wood stove design fixed in my head now after talking to some others.
As I can't weld this thin Stainless steel I am going to use an old LPG bottle that I just paid $5- for at the test centre as the main firebox and use the stainless pressure tank as the heat exchange part
I'm now looking for a short off-cut of 200mm SHS as the feed section

Or I could just buy another larger cast iron stove from Evil Bay for $100- which I just did and which hopefully I can get ready in time

[RonK]

Hmmmm - your mention of the lp gas bottle got me wondering if you are aware of the Ozpig.

[Moondog55]

Certainly I am, orientation seems to be OK for cooking on but wrong for a heating stove
I have all the stuff here but sometimes I find it easier to fix something rather than build from scratch and if we get everything else done in time there may be more than one wood heater to take up

[Moondog55]

Here are some pictures of the smaller fly' / group-shelter modified with the external wands and much strengthened tie down points

[Moondog55]

While I will still be making a rocket stove for heating I just bought for $100- and old Trolla 104 which needs a rebuild
About 3 times the size of the stove I used in 2014
Does anybody here have any experience in removing old stove bolts that could offer some advice?
Fixing it once I get it apart shouldn't be a problem, they are a very simple design after all and the baffle plates are just mild steel
The folks I bought it from were quoted $900- + for the rebuild by Trollas agents in Melbourne and I assume most of that was labour to disassemble

[Moondog55]

Well the stove is disassembled and waiting for me to weld up a couple of cracks
There is a rear flue outlet position as well as the top one, for use in the winter I'm thinking that having the maximum surface earea for heating water/slow cooking of beans etc would be advantageous
Any thoughts on that?

[north-north-west]

No, but one question. How much does that thing weigh?

[Moondog55]

No, but one question. How much does that thing weigh?

Quite light actually after all the crap was cleaned out of it, about 35 kilos
I'll need some new flue, a short section of 115mm or a 4.5 to 4 adapter

[Moondog55]

Any potters or kiln makers here?
I am having trouble assembling the stove after taking it apart and cleaning it up' and repairing the cracks
The refractory mortar I was sold to seal it sets hard too quickly and I need to slow it down quite a bit.
I contacted the maker and they said to keep spraying it with water but when I do so it flows out of the joints.
I asked "Rubbedin" if adding potters clay or fireclay [kaolin] would work and they had no idea
Open to ideas and suggestions

[stry]

Well the stove is disassembled and waiting for me to weld up a couple of cracks
There is a rear flue outlet position as well as the top one, for use in the winter I'm thinking that having the maximum surface earea for heating water/slow cooking of beans etc would be advantageous
Any thoughts on that?

I would use the top outlet Straight flu is likely to draw better and will accumulate less crud.

Not sure why you are needing to vary the flu diameter. Sometimes stepping the diameter down can create a very pronounced venturi effect, which is good. Sometimes it doesn't work. Suck it and see. Pretty sure that stepping up post stove would be a mistake.

[stry]

Any potters or kiln makers here?
I am having trouble assembling the stove after taking it apart and cleaning it up' and repairing the cracks
The refractory mortar I was sold to seal it sets hard too quickly and I need to slow it down quite a bit.
I contacted the maker and they said to keep spraying it with water but when I do so it flows out of the joints.
I asked "Rubbedin" if adding potters clay or fireclay [kaolin] would work and they had no idea
Open to ideas and suggestions

I occasionally see someone who may well have the answer. Don't hold your breath 'cos I don't know when I'll see him next, but I will keep it in mind.

[Moondog55]

Ta
If i can get it to work this is a much better starting point than 2014

[north-north-west]

I know detergent can be used as a plasticiser in concrete and normal mortar but have no idea what it would do with this stuff.

I'd have thought it would be a common problem and there'd be info online somewhere . .. edit: goggled 'refractory mortar plasticizer' (the American spelling turns up more links). Heaps of links and suggestions come up. Let yourself loose on the web.

[Moondog55]

Unfortunately Rubbedin won't disclose their recipe for their mortar apart from the information that it is a high silica mix with no aluminium
Not all ingredients are compatible and I don't want to get it hot and have the mortar in the joints explode out
I could use builders lime as the plasticiser if the product had none in it already but too much and I get other problems
I could use kaolin
http://www.boral.com.au/productcatalogu ... oduct=2289

but again I need to know how much to use and if it's compatible
My potter friend didn't make here own kiln so couldn't assist although she did offer me a handful of red clay
Rubbedin themselves may be able to help me after XMas when the technical experts come back from holidays but I am a little impatient to get this finished

[stry]

OK - hope this is of some help.

1/ The name "Rubbedin" rang no bells with my contact.
2/ There is a apparently an air set cement which could well have the issues which have given you grief.
3/ Suggestion was to use fire clay NOT pottery clay. Fire clay will only set when heat is appied. Your application may not get as hot as a kiln, but would probably be hot enough to set fire clay, particularly if you progressively stoked it up.

Fire clay should be available from pottery supply sources and probably on line.

Give it a crack

[Moondog55]

Thanx Stry
I'm guessing this air set cement is sold under very may brands and I can buy fireclay from Bunnings

[stry]

Yes,I think "air set cement "was a generic description.

I would have more faith in the compositon and suitability of fire clay purchased from pottery sources than from Bunnings, but I may be being unduly cautious.

My contact was of the opinion that fire clay should be available in quite small quantities.