Kathmandu....Doubtful quality?

[blacksheep]

Not a problem Ollie, send me you details- size, preferred colour, type of activites you are in to, credit card number and we'll sort something out
(ps- from next week there will be some fantastics deals about on gear)

[ollster]

Not a problem Ollie, send me you details- size, preferred colour, type of activites you are in to, credit card numberand we'll sort something out

Fixed!

Yeah, I've already had a heads up about the Macpac sale... finger on the pulse and all that. I'll be trying VERY hard to resist.

[ninjapuppet]

HAHA,

when i was still a poor malnourished student, i kitted myself with gear from Ray's outdoors to do the OT. nearly died from the weight. Then things started to break & fall apart... then i graduated and started earning money,

Then came along those 60% off kathmandu sales. OMG so happy! i decked myself out in everything i could, thinking i got a bargain!..Then I worked a few years, had more cash and slowly started upgrading all my gear to expedition grade equipment with everest in mind... I found the kathmandu gear too heavy. eg, the northstar tent: its solid, but too heavy compared to similar strength tents in other brands.

I group my gear into catagories such as neccessities, accessories etc. I find that kathmandu is good value for the accessories like mirror, mosquito zapper etc. (things you can live without)

but for the essential gear, i would recommend you not skimp, and get the best quality gear you can afford if you see yourself bushwalking long term. My macpac 65L pack has lasted nearly a decade of abuse without a sign of letting up, and I'm confident my one planet McMillan (on advice from forum members here) ....... would live up to a simlar standard set by the macpac .

** my rays outdoors pack - eventually had the shoulder strap come apart 3/4 through the OT. i didnt have any sewing kit with me so had to carry it on R shoulder alone for the rest of the trip. took about 5 weeks of therapy to get rid of that shoulder pain after i got back! ($$$$)

[Moondog55]

Just had to join so I can participate in bagging Katmandu products.

I used to buy their products all the time because for a long while they were the only place selling anywhere near reasonable kids clothing and waterproofs, I never had a problem with fit or quality or price when my kids were small, even the boots were OK, lately though I have been disappointed especially at the removal from the inventory of shoes ( Not boots ) that fitted.
General comment now; overpriced; overweight underengineered and poor quality control at place of manufacture.

But Macpac are headed down the same path now

Newcomers opinion

regards
Ted

[ollster]

But Macpac are headed down the same path now

BLASPHEMER! BURN HIM!

PS: Welcome to the forum. (If you had have said MDs then I would probably have agreed... but Macpac are still troo... ok, "mostly" troo)

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hahaha OUCH x2
theres something in the air tonight....
Sad but I agree, the quality of MACPAC tents (as I stated a couple of months ago) seems to be going downhill, preferring lightweight over the usual bombproof standard.

OP, Mountain HW are probably my current fave 2 brands.

[blacksheep]

the specs and suppliers on macpac tents have remained unchanged for many many years... just because they are not sold by paddys/bivouac/r&R/bogong etc does not mean the product is changed.. (edit...see below- there are changes...whoops)
our core line is staying core.

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[ILUVSWTAS]

Arent the new Minarets lighter than the older models?

[blacksheep]

Arent the new Minarets lighter than the older models?

caught me out there.. I forgot that around 3 years back there was a spec change..
the poles moved to a new ferrulous model from DAC. the ferrules are always the breaking point on poles, these new poles are extruded with different diameters at either end- much tighter tolerances at inserts meaning stronger/more reliable poles with less material used (and consequently a small weight loss) (they also they now use a new "green"water based anodising process )
the fly sheets on minaret/olympus were upgraded from a Pu coated UV40 nylon to a sil-sil UV30 HT nylon. the high tensile (HT) and sil-sil are an advance in strength (equal break strength to UV40 with significantly higher tear strength) and shave a couple of grams per m2 (over a tent those few grams add up).

these are hardly downgrades ...they add cost and are adopting advances in material developments... you'll see them on the worlds (other) best tents also...so yes, the quality on some products is changing as textile development, and component manufacturing allows us to improve our products... my mistake (i thought the implied meaning was a regression....)

[ILUVSWTAS]

That's cool mate! Most people do prefer lighter gear, I am trying to balance light and strength these days myself, I just love my old Minaret so so much I think any change couldnt be "better" They are the perfect tent

[Moondog55]

When I said Macpac were headed down the same path i did imply that quality was going down.

That is probably just my initial reaction to "Macpac" becoming a BRAND NAME store, although I do think that most of the new packs and clothing are geared towards travellers I suppose that is where the money is, and retail is about making sales.

I confess to liking my gear simple and I haven't bought a new pack tent or sleeping bag or bivvy sac for over 12 years, my day and a half sac is worn out but I can't find a decent replacement for the WE "TourJour" that I have owned for close to 20 years

[Franco]

Two things that I miss :gear that lasts and repair shops.
Franco

[blacksheep]

Two things that I miss :gear that lasts and repair shops.
Franco

one stop shop would be a store that sold product that used quality materials and also stood behing the product and repaired them as required...we do try to be that place..

but franco, how can you love uber lightweight and longevity? the 2 are practically mutually exclusive

[ollster]

but franco, how can you love uber lightweight and longevity? the 2 are practically mutually exclusive

I thought the rule was cheap/light/strong, pick any 2.

[Franco]

Sorry , that is my standard comment when nostalgia comes along. It was meant to highlight the obvious contradiction within the two comments that often come up.
People comment that gear used to last a lot longer however they forget that we used to maintain the gear (and have it fixed) whilst now we prefer to just replace it.
Not to be taken seriously. (my comment)
Franco

[Ent]

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[blacksheep]

yes brett, we have full time repair staff employed here. they spend their days on 20 year old packs, making floors for tents, replacing lost buckles etc. In AU the first port of call is Remote in Melb who we send repairs to that they can handle- it is easier then sending to NZ (not only for cost reasons, but for MAF/ quarentine reasons- outdoor gear often has grass seed etc attached).
they are authorised to determine warranty/ non warranty issues on our behalf, and we make all the calls in house here for NZ product (we also repair the Japenese/HK product here in NZ as they don't have repairers there!)

we don't have minimum handling charge on a warranty repair, but if we are offering a service then at least there will be a recovery of any freight costs.

cheers

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[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Tue 16 Nov, 2010 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Lindsay]

Hi Cam

Good to hear and can understand the quarantine issue as a Stroller "lost" a Gore-tex coat because it was not cleaned before coming into Australia. Big hint for our walkers coming in or coming back from O/S to make sure all gear is spotless else the cleaning cost by Quarantine could make getting it done not worth it plus I would imagine that the cleaning is to remove bugs an may not be as gentle as you would wish yourself.

Cheers Brett

Generally the cleaning most people give their gear after use is sufficient. AQIS will take a quick look for any caked on dirt or plant material caught in seams etc. and you're on your way. Often a verbal assurance to AQIS that your gear is clean is all that's needed.

If it does need cleaning and if it has been declared, boots and other outdoor equipment will generally be cleaned free of charge and on the spot, a wait of maybe 10-20 minutes depending on how busy the AQIS officers are. Cleaning is done with detergent, elbow grease and scrubbing brush/high pressure hose. If your gear is not declared, the same cleaning routine takes place but will be accompanied by a lecture and if an attempt has been made to conceal gear or mislead the AQIS people, an on the spot fine of S220 can be imposed.

But I'm sure no one here would attempt such a thing

[Ent]

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[etrangere]

Lets say I have a product, most stores would sell it at the RRP of $100.

I take that product and give it a RRP of $200, then 4 times a year sell it at $100 and advertise it at 50% off.

People are likely to buy that products from me and think they got a bargain rather than the equvalent product for $100 at another outlet

That pretty much somes up Kathmandu!!

I personally ONLY ever shop during a sale and only non important/essential items ie beanie, water bottle etc but NEVER an important item such as a backpack, sleeping bag, tent etc. Here in perth we have a Main Peak, Paddy Pallin, Mountain Designs and Kathmandu all within 100 meters of each other, 90% of the time when browsing I dont even bother going into the Kathmandu store.....that pretty much somes up what I think of them.

[dancier]

In AU the first port of call is Remote in Melb who we send repairs to that they can handle- it is easier then sending to NZ

Thanks for the contact, I've got an Olympus that needs the door zipper repaired. Might be time to buy a new one because it's over 25 years old.

I've got a Kathmandu Lansen that I bought on sale for $350, it's fine for a cheap tent, but I'm not sure how it's going to perform in really bad weather.

[Xtreme Earth]

I would have to agree with Entrangere on the pricing of their gear. They aren't the only ones though! Some of the Kathmandu gear is OK but it's usually overpriced unless on sale. There is of course some lemons in there too! I think with most of the brands who sell a very wide range of products across the whole outdoor industry sector, there is good and not so good in their range. It's pretty hard to keep track of your QC when you spread your talents too wide, and especially when you start ordering gear off the shelf from Chinese, Vietnamese or Indian factories. I think MacPac are another example of that to a much lesser extent. Their gear isn't quite what it used to be (only my opinion) but it's still pretty good. It's nice to be able to trade of a long established name some times! I wish I had their reputation because I would sell my gear for a higher price too

[blacksheep]

I would have to agree with Entrangere on the pricing of their gear. They aren't the only ones though! Some of the Kathmandu gear is OK but it's usually overpriced unless on sale. There is of course some lemons in there too! I think with most of the brands who sell a very wide range of products across the whole outdoor industry sector, there is good and not so good in their range. It's pretty hard to keep track of your QC when you spread your talents too wide, and especially when you start ordering gear off the shelf from Chinese, Vietnamese or Indian factories. I think MacPac are another example of that to a much lesser extent. Their gear isn't quite what it used to be (only my opinion) but it's still pretty good. It's nice to be able to trade of a long established name some times! I wish I had their reputation because I would sell my gear for a higher price too

how many designers were involved in making your range? how many QC staff? what are your quality processes? what does macpac buy "off the shelf"? what is the product develpment process? how long / how much testing before you release a product? do you have staff with repair experience? how will your packs look after 20 years?
can you tell me what sewing thread you use (I trust you have a spec based on testing)?
good luck with your business and thanks for the kind words, I suggest you review of the comments above and ensure you meet these needs for customers in every country you sell into...then you will earn a reputation. Until then you will be no different from a range that some guy put together at Canton fair.
why are your packs special and worth more? you need to give a good answer to this before you have a chance at being a long established brand that is worthy of trust...

[samh]

I do appreciate that companies post here on the forum and they can often be of great help. However I feel a bit annoyed by a few 'unconstructive' comments recently.

how many designers were involved in making your ranhe? how many QC staff? what are your quality processes? what do we buy "off the shelf"? what is the product develpment process? how long / how much testing before you release a product?
can you even tell me what sewing thread you use?...

Who cares??
I don't think this belongs in this forum

....Well just my opinion....

[corvus]

I would have to agree with Entrangere on the pricing of their gear. They aren't the only ones though! Some of the Kathmandu gear is OK but it's usually overpriced unless on sale. There is of course some lemons in there too! I think with most of the brands who sell a very wide range of products across the whole outdoor industry sector, there is good and not so good in their range. It's pretty hard to keep track of your QC when you spread your talents too wide, and especially when you start ordering gear off the shelf from Chinese, Vietnamese or Indian factories. I think MacPac are another example of that to a much lesser extent. Their gear isn't quite what it used to be (only my opinion) but it's still pretty good. It's nice to be able to trade of a long established name some times! I wish I had their reputation because I would sell my gear for a higher price too

how many designers were involved in making your range? how many QC staff? what are your quality processes? what does macpac buy "off the shelf"? what is the product develpment process? how long / how much testing before you release a product? do you have staff with repair experience? how will your packs look after 20 years?
can you tell me what sewing thread you use (I trust you have a spec based on testing)?
good luck with your business and thanks for the kind words, I suggest you review of the comments above and ensure you meet these needs for customers in every country you sell into...then you will earn a reputation. Until then you will be no different from a range that some guy put together at Canton fair.
why are your packs special and worth more? you need to give a good answer to this before you have a chance at being a long established brand that is worthy of trust...

A " post to far" perhaps black sheep but why not?? main thing is can you back up you claims
corvus

[Son of a Beach]

I do appreciate that companies post here on the forum and they can often be of great help. However I feel a bit annoyed by a few 'unconstructive' comments recently.

I agree Sam... I very much appreciate the company reps who do get involved here. However...

Xtreme Earth and Blacksheep: I would prefer it if company representatives refrained from from dragging down their competition here, whether it's Kathmandu, or Xtreme Earth or Macpac (or other). Of course you're welcome to correct statements about your own company.

[blacksheep]

it was at the end of a long day of preparing design specs for my next development trip when i read the posts above. (I have our Japanese distributor here next week and 6 samples to finish, and then our Dutch distributor here the week after and some additional work that will see me off for 3 weeks on the factory floor. ) A lot of final design adoption and detail that hase meant me missing the tail end of day light savings after work bike rides- and the hills are winking at me just outside my window..so, I was definately not in the mood to read inferences that that our products are an off the shelf assortment that is of dubious value. Our team works too hard for that.
And while it's never a good idea to post while frowning, I stand behind the questions I raise...as many leading brands will tell you, how your products are viewed and trusted is the result of thousands of user days that your product has enabled. The process (design, testing, checking) that goes into the release of that product determines that experience. Our team here, the least experienced developer or spec-technician or QA staff has been doing their role for 12 years. (I'm in mid-range at 15years of design development).
The questions I posed to the fellow starting upn are questions that have answers that combine to answer his questions of "how to control QC with a wide range" and "how can I have a reputation that makes my products desireable/trusted".
I stand by my statements.
I have seen many packs displayed by factories at trade shows, and asian sportsfairs . Some ranges are simply a guy going aropund point and ordering. And if a new company is to emerge in the market, they have to show to their customers that they are not like that (if they don't want to be seen as not like that of course)...how they do that is their question...
Samh...you should care. the topic is doubtful quality. These things I mention, to which you ask "who cares" are some ways of removing doubt in quality.

[Son of a Beach]

Fair enough, blacksheep. I guess I was concerned about the direction it looked like the discussion was going, and trying to nip it in the bud.

[samh]

@ black sheep
The point I was trying to make is that the number of staff is not important as long as they do their job well. I don't care if you have 1 QC staff or 10 or even 50 as long as the product which leaves the factory has no faults.

samh