Water filters vs purifiers

[davidmorr]

Surely the biggest issue with a steripen is reliability. They were failing left right and centre when I did Kokoda so I don't think they handle high humidity well (strange for a WATER filter).

I often hear the argument that you shouldn't rely solely on a GPS for navigation because it could fail and you'd be lost without a backup. Surely the same logic applies to electronic water filters?

Yes, so I would always take a few tablets as well, or boil the water. Don't use a GPS, so not problem there.

How were the Steripens failing?

[Jellybean]

Have you had any difficulty getting batteries for it? Dick Smith tell me that they only keep the CR123 for old film cameras, and given that film is rapidly disappearing, how long will the batteries be available?

Hi,

Getting batteries for the Steripen is not an issue. If you Google CR123 and look at the Wikipedia definition you'll find other names for the equivalent batteries (e.g., 123). Readily available at Woolies and Coles, although they are not the cheapest places to find theses batteries. Google "123 batteries" and you'll see a few places within Australia where you can buy them more cheaply on-line.

Cheers,

JB

Last edited by Jellybean on Wed 05 May, 2010 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Jellybean]

Surely the biggest issue with a steripen is reliability. They were failing left right and centre when I did Kokoda so I don't think they handle high humidity well (strange for a WATER filter).

I often hear the argument that you shouldn't rely solely on a GPS for navigation because it could fail and you'd be lost without a backup. Surely the same logic applies to electronic water filters?

Yes, so I would always take a few tablets as well, or boil the water. Don't use a GPS, so not problem there.

How were the Steripens failing?

Agree that it's worth taking some tablets as a back up.

Also curious as to how the Steripens were failing. Yes, they are potentially fragile, but if you are sensible with their use and store it in the protective case provided you shouldn't have any problems.

If you are on an extended walk or are using the Steripen alot, you should take spare batteries - they do run out (I'm wondering whether that was the issue with the Kokoda walkers? I can't see how high humidity would affect the functioning of the Steripen?).

[ozjolly]

How were the Steripens failing?

Not sure. One guy we passed had two steripens - one as a backup - and they both failed! They do seem convenient though.

[adventurerichard]

just regarding the CR123's, I have the adventurer model which uses the same batteries as the journey i think and also bought the solar recharger (which for the adventurer serves as a carry case too). The rechargeables don't last as long but i have one set in the pen and one in the charger which can sit on top of my pack. Charging usually takes me a couple of days but i'm getting 20 ish litres from a set so I've never had two run down pairs of batteries yet. Great for if you're away a long time or just charge a few up at home for free (no govt rebate on my solar charger though ).

[davidmorr]

Hi David,
Yep- I have the journey and am using the Lithium battery which came with it- have not yet replaced it (just took purification tabs with me on standby should it run out). Will have to keep my eyes open for the battery now. I'm pretty sure I just got standard postage from Moontrail and it still got here in the week... have bought from them a couple of times all with no problem. No experience with the Singapore mob- let us know who you chose and how you go.

It's been a long story, but I decided on the Steripen and ordered on from Moontrail. It arrived quickly as you said, but when I tried to use it, it would not stay on for more than a few seconds. Did a lot of testing and checked the batteries (ok), so I classified it as DOA.

Moontrail said to send it back. I would pay the postage to them ($21) and they would pay to send me a replacement. That's what I did. Today the replacement arrived and it works properly. In fact, they tested it before the shipped it to make sure it was ok, which was nice of them.

So full marks to Moontrail, not so good to Steripen's manufacturer.

[Lizzy]

Hey David,
Glad Moontrail worked out ok , but bumma about the steripen.... thats the problem with buying online... but for the savings I guess the risk is usually worth it. Wishing you many years of healthy hiking with the steripen!
Cheer
Lizzy

[mountnman]

I have been looking at the MSR SweetWater Purifier System http://www.moontrail.com/sweetwater-purifier.php

It says that it eliminates


Protozoa, including Cryptosporidium, Giardia, Cyclospora, and Entamoeba histolytica

Bacteria, including Staphylococcus aureus, Clostridium perfringens, Campylobacter, Salmonella, Shigella and E. coli

Organic chemicals, including herbicides, pesticides, diesel fuel, chlorine and chemicals resulting from strip-mine runoff.

Viruses, including those that cause polio and Hepatitis A


Does anyone have any opinions on this filter considering it claims to treat viruses too? (By putting in 5 drops of Sweetwater ViralStop)

[Liamy77]

yup chlorine will kill some viruses - same as pool bleach does.... it wont remove them just kills them int he water.
but then thats what a $18 packet of water purification tablets does (this product just filters the water too)

[Liamy77]

I have been looking at the MSR SweetWater Purifier System http://www.moontrail.com/sweetwater-purifier.php

It says that it eliminates


Protozoa, including Cryptosporidium, Giardia, Cyclospora, and Entamoeba histolytica

Bacteria, including Staphylococcus aureus, Clostridium perfringens, Campylobacter, Salmonella, Shigella and E. coli

Organic chemicals, including herbicides, pesticides, diesel fuel, chlorine and chemicals resulting from strip-mine runoff.

Viruses, including those that cause polio and Hepatitis A


Does anyone have any opinions on this filter considering it claims to treat viruses too? (By putting in 5 drops of Sweetwater ViralStop)

Yup chlorine treatment will kill some viruses - same as pool bleach does... this product is the same as normal water tablets but with a filter too by the look of it...

[ninjapuppet]

I had been using the older steripen Adventurer (yellow) for a while now.
Just got my hands on the new green rimmed steripen Adventurer OPTI. it was a special discount after some US supplier stuffed up one of my orders.

compared with the older yellow rimmed steripen, it is identical in size and weight. apparently the internal circuitry has been tweaked a little so it doesnt consume up so much electricity but i'd been using my older steripen several times a month for over a year with no problems.
the neoprene case it comes with is identical. the usage is exactly the same.

Differences:
- its got a green rim instead of yellow rim
- its button is harder to press. the button doesnt give a reassuring CLICK sound when you press it. hope this improves with time. maybe its to prevent accidental presses and hence flatten the battery?
- It has an additional LED light next to the UV rod which doubles as a torch. turns on if you hold the button for 3 seconds. this is just a gimmick because the button is so hard to press and its not very bright.
- when you are sterilising, the UV rod lights up as in the older steripen, but the LED also flashes which is kinda cool but again, just a gimmick.
- the cover is abit easier to pull off than the older steripen, but still damn hard! there is no need to make it this difficult. you dont want to use too much force incase you break the UV rod.
the cover is clear so you can see which side the UV rod is on, and this helps you decide which direction to pull the cover off to, but again, a gimmick.

OVERAL IMPRESSIONS:
its just a marketting ploy to sell a "NEWER UPDATED AND IMPROVED" model which isnt really improved by much. at least they tried.
considering its RRP is more expensive than the older model, i would prefer the older model mainly because the CLICKING button when pressed.

As for filters, in areas with good water like tassie and NZ, i dont use the steripen's screw on filter anymore - couldnt be bothered fumbling with the little plastic screw on filter because when your fingers are cold and numb, its quite a tight fit.
I tried to use the hanky but after blowing snot into it and nearly forgetting about the snot - i was nearly going to drink water contaminated with my own snot.
Also tried the bandanna thingy but it couldnt seem to let water through fast enough.
I now use a stocking sewed around the edges with a cord release. weighs 3 grams and does just as good a job. much quicker to attach too!

in areas with doubtful water, I use the aquamira Frontier Pro reviewed eariler.

In the past, i have owned the MSR hyperflow (light but clogs up too much), MSR miniworks (reliable but too bulky), Katydyn Hiker pro (too unreliable) In my honest opinion, this system now is the perfect combination for me.

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[Jellybean]

Hi NP,

Thanks for your thorough review of the Steripen Adventurer OPTI. I saw a blurb/review about it in BPL the other day and wondered what it was really like. It initially sounded like the Opti was smaller and lighter than the previous Steripen Adventurer and possibly less demanding on batteries (which may have made it attractive, I already own the previous Steripen Adventurer), but it's clear from your review that there's no difference in size/weight and the battery "problem" is resolvable. I'll stick to my one!

I also originally had the screw on filter but decided that having to carry that and a Nalgene bottle was too heavy. The Nalgene canteen wasn't around then, or at least I hadn't seen it, so I cut the top off a 1l Platypus collapsible bottle (very light, but durable) and bought a Steripen Fits All Filter (pictured below) to use instead, when needed (so far it hasn't been needed). However, I like your Nalgene canteen and stocking filter combination (as long as you can keep holes out of the stocking - I'm good at that! ), as the wide mouth of the canteen allows you to use the steripen in it, plus you can carry water in the canteen.

How do you find the Nalgene canteen?

Cheers,

JB

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[Liamy77]

It's been a long story, but I decided on the Steripen and ordered on from Moontrail. It arrived quickly as you said, but when I tried to use it, it would not stay on for more than a few seconds. Did a lot of testing and checked the batteries (ok), so I classified it as DOA.

Moontrail said to send it back. I would pay the postage to them ($21) and they would pay to send me a replacement. That's what I did. Today the replacement arrived and it works properly. In fact, they tested it before the shipped it to make sure it was ok, which was nice of them.

So full marks to Moontrail, not so good to Steripen's manufacturer.

I disagree... if it was DOA then only half marks - same as the postage ... I think that it should NOT have cost YOU at all! but at least it was resolved.....

[jetjackson]

I like the idea of an activated carbon filter. Depending on where you are hiking you don't know what chemicals are in the water source from farm run off... could be all sorts of biocides, lindane, heavy metals... who knows. At least with the activated carbon filter you get rid of most of this stuff as well.

[sailfish]

Last I heard, life straw is supposed to become available in Australia in December.
I'm pretty well decided to go with that at this point in time.
Removes particulates and organisms without chemical taste.


Regards,
Ken

[ahmondjai]

I had a Katadyn Combi, and took it to Girraween last month for its first use.
while filtering from the taps, which draws water from the surrounding creeks, the water came out brownish.
Should a water filter which can filter out bacterias filter out any sediments? or is the brownish "clean" water normal?

[jetjackson]

Not sure on that one. I would have thought so. My understanding with Activated Carbon (I sell it in my job) is that it has billions of tiny pores. These pores adsorb (not absorb - there is a difference) particles. Depending on the raw material that was used to make the carbon the pores are different sizes. There are 3 raw materials that make activated carbon, Wood, Coal and Coconut Shell. Coconut shell and coal based activated carbons have smaller pores and thus are able to absorb very fine particles. Generally these types are used in water treatment - we sell this material in bulk quantities to councils/swimming pools etc. for water treatment. It's particularly good for removing heavy metals. Wood based carbon has much larger pores and so smaller particles would not be adsorbed as they would just fall out of the pores so to speak.



Left to right - Wood based, Coal based, Coconut based. - You can see the difference in the pore sizes. They are referred to as Micropores, Mesopores and Macropores. Each type has a higher or lower count of each. Wood based has a high count of macropores and a low count of micro and meso. Coconut has a high count of micro and low count of macro. Coal has a medium amount of each (that doesn't necessarily mean better).

I did a bit of reading and your Katadyn filter has both Activated Carbon and a Ceramic filter - the Ceramic filter is the part that removes the bacteria as it is impregnated with silver.

- My point, based on what I know about Activated Carbon is that it would seem that either the particles giving the Girraween water the brownish tea colour are either too large or too small to be adsorbed by either the silver impregnated ceramic or the activated carbon. Katadyn says nothing on their site about which type of carbon they use but I have sent them an email asking (they may not want to answer as they may think we are trying to do a home job of replacing the carbon ourselves)
http://www.katadyn.com/fileadmin/user_u ... son_EN.pdf - although this spreadsheet has some good info about the capabilities of the filter.

Also did a bit of reading and Activated Carbon removes Lindane/DDT and other pesticides and odour generating materials. This is why I would prefer to use a combination of activated carbon filter and iodine tabs. Treat the water with Iodine tabs and then suck it through an activated carbon filter which should remove the bad tastes. Yet to test this hypothesis though.

[jetjackson]

Katadyn just emailed me and confirmed they use coconut based carbon in their carbon filters.

[ahmondjai]

Thanks for all that jetjackson~
sounds like Katadyn used some high quality components in their products~
I'm just concern whether that's safe to drink after filtration by the Combi, since it's still brownish.
Has anyone filtered water from creek? what are the results of your filter?

[Liamy77]

so, are tanin particles larger or smaller than most pathogens? - dunno.....

[Kolbaska]

Tannins are small and soluble, no harm, but carbon will remove them.
I had Steripen fail - simply didn't light up. The battery was new. Before sending it back I tried another battery - and it's working ever since. Go figure.

[jetjackson]

Ahmond's experience was that the activated carbon did not remove the tanins. To me that would suggest then that either the carbon filter has reached the end of it's lifespan or that the tannin particles are too large/small to be picked up by the activated carbon. Ahmond - how old is your activated carbon filter?

http://www.gov.ns.ca/nse/water/docs/dro ... tances.pdf - bit of info here on Tanins
http://www.watersystemscouncil.org/VAiW ... annins.pdf - some more here

Seems like anion exchange resin or a flocculant is the recommendation on those docs - not really possible to flocculate water when you are hiking. There is something about Iron bonding with tannins and making larger particles - Iron is present in some Granite but I don't know if it could leach out of the Girraween granite and into the water... I am just speculating at this point. I only know piecemeal information about water treatment.

[ahmondjai]

Thanks for the replies, guys~
Katadyn got back to me, suggesting me to do a test with garden soil in water to test out the filter itself.
The results confirmed that the ceremic filter wasn't crack, thus, it's functioning. the brownish dye in water was due to high minerals(probably iron) in the creek water. As they are smaller than 0.2 micron, they cannot be fully filtered out by activated carbon and ceramic filter of the Combi.
According to the rep, they are harmless if being consumed periodically.

That took care of my concern, but I'll still use my Steripen along with the Combi~

[Kolbaska]

Membrane filters filter by size, but carbon doesn't - it attracts the impurities to its surface. All you need is large surface (which is of course achieved by decreasing the pore size and increasing their density). In the end you need a fairly large layer of carbon to filter water, or a few passes. On a tap water filter there's a good 50 cm3 at least filled with carbon to treat very modest flow...

[pete0762]

Finally getting back to this one I started ages ago and amazing how much information is just in this one thread. Anyway I got my Steripen Adventure and a Pre-filter when I was in the US from REI in May alltogether costed only AU$115 ( bargain compared to what they charge here). Its so small, light weight and works great. So thanks for all the information and keep on posting. cheers Peter

[ninjapuppet]

I just got back from a rafting trip in NZ. I got dunked into the river for about a minute and my brand new steripen Adventurer Opti went kaput and died.
I am 100% sure i screwed the lid on tightly since i checked it after my friend played with it.

seems ironic that a water treatment device can get waterlogged but i guess i was naive to think it was waterproof.
Guys, be aware Its only water resistant against splashes. Water came in through a hole in the lid and entered the UV tube from there.
I should have placed it inside my dry bag...

lucky ive got insurance and just happen to have a few other steripens lying around. check the for sale section if you want one.

[sailfish]

Just got a Life Straw, 0.2 micron, removes 99.9999% bacteria and 99.9% of protozoan cysts (making it effective against Giardia etc.) Cost about $30 which subsidises the distribution of Life Straw in the 3rd world.
Weighs 70g after use (wet), filters 1000 letres (more than 2L per day for a year) and and does not rely on batteries, chemicals etc.

PS. I tried it out in the garden pond.

Regards,
Ken

[gayet]

Where did you get it from?

[sailfish]

Where did you get it from?

I put it on my birthday wish list.
However I believe they are available from several sources within Australia.
lifestraw.com.au
kitbag.com.au

Google will find a few more.

Regards,
Ken

[Capt DropBear]

Just got a Life Straw, 0.2 micron, removes 99.9999% bacteria and 99.9% of protozoan cysts (making it effective against Giardia etc.) Cost about $30 which subsidises the distribution of Life Straw in the 3rd world.
Weighs 70g after use (wet), filters 1000 letres (more than 2L per day for a year) and and does not rely on batteries, chemicals etc.

PS. I tried it out in the garden pond.

Regards,
Ken

Thanks for the info on this one, to be honest I thought they were one use only items.