Hilleberg Akto versus Tarptent Scarp

[corvus]

Cool. Just thinking out loud here.. Seem the inner is that waterproof why not make the outer the same? That way they'd both breath, you'd get little or no condensation and the outer would take the 'sting' out of the water droplets so that the inners water proofness was good enough.
Or is it that the inner doesn't breathe much - hence the mesh on the sides rather than full solid inner ??

"well I did that finger test about two hors ago. Still no drips now."
I mean like capillary action (sort of), so does you finger get wet? (as opposed to 'does it drip' if you catch my confusing drift!)

This is what Henry has to say.

Henry Shires said...
Martin et al,

Re:seam-sealing the Scarp 1, the good news is that you can do a poor job, if at all, and it wont matter very much. The "inner" is made of calendered ripstop nylon, a highly water repellent material. Any drips through the seams or splash though the apex vents will just roll off the inner fabric.

-H

11 February 2009 01:55



Regards
corvus

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Jellybean]

Will stay tuned for the Scarp 2 with winter fly length as it might be an option for a luxury under two kilogram solo tent.

Hi Brett,

If possible, I will give you a bit of a review after this weekend. Two friends have each just bought the new Scarp 2 (it's been a very long wait since they first ordered due to the new design still being in production, but one of them received his this week and will be using it for the first time in Kanangara NP this weekend). 'Will report back.

Cheers,

JB

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Franco]

Hi Brett
I will cut a tyvek ground sheet that covers the vestibule as well. Kind of toying with the idea of doing one vestibule only.
The advantage would be less weight (probably around 60g) and bulk, the disadvantage would be that you need to think before you are in which side you want.
Covering both vestibules would also reduce condensation from ground evaporation, mostly on grass.
What do you think ?
BTW, unless the extra 9 cm of headroom in the Scarp 1 is not enough (the Scarp 2 is 115 cm, so 25 more than the Akto) I don't know why you
would look at the 2 as a solo shelter.
I think that Corvus should have charged you $10 entry fee and let you try his for size.

Jellybean
Deep apologies for those two Scarps for your friends.
The factory that makes the fly for the Scarp can't keep up and as some stock arrived at TT Henry was organising his trip to Scotland.
The other Scarp should be here soon.
Franco

[Nuts]

(Akto looks better )

[sthughes]

Nooooo! I wouldn't trade one vestibule for 60g in a pink fit. The dual vestibules is a feature I love in the Scarp. Maybe a compromise would be to make it only accessible from inside. Hence you could still store your pack (and/or whatever) in there and access it.

At the highest point in the Scarp I can just sit upright on a Prolite 4. Using my Neo or a Downmat I would not be able to sit upright anywhere. That makes the Scarp 2 quite attractive to me as a tent just light enough for 1 in luxury but still plenty spacious enough for two. Having said that I'd be happy with a Scarp's size if it was always for 1, it is nice and spacious for a solo tent in both width and length, just it could be a smidgen higher for me.

[Jellybean]

Nooooo! I wouldn't trade one vestibule for 60g in a pink fit. The dual vestibules is a feature I love in the Scarp. Maybe a compromise would be to make it only accessible from inside. Hence you could still store your pack (and/or whatever) in there and access it.

At the highest point in the Scarp I can just sit upright on a Prolite 4. Using my Neo or a Downmat I would not be able to sit upright anywhere. That makes the Scarp 2 quite attractive to me as a tent just light enough for 1 in luxury but still plenty spacious enough for two. Having said that I'd be happy with a Scarp's size if it was always for 1, it is nice and spacious for a solo tent in both width and length, just it could be a smidgen higher for me.

Hi sthughes,

I think (hope) Franco was was suggesting that the groundsheet be cut to cover one vestibule rather than both (as opposed to saying that one vestibule should be removed from the tent) .

Re your sitting up in the Scarp 1 comment, how tall are you?

Thanks.

Cheers,

JB

Last edited by Jellybean on Fri 28 May, 2010 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Jellybean]

Jellybean
Deep apologies for those two Scarps for your friends.
The factory that makes the fly for the Scarp can't keep up and as some stock arrived at TT Henry was organising his trip to Scotland.
The other Scarp should be here soon.
Franco

No worries Franco. A bit frustrating for them (especially after I'd been raving about Tarptents and Henry's customer service (he's always responded promptly when I've asked questions) but at least the one who needed the tent this weekend, has it (as far as I know) and, hey, much worse things can happen!

Cheers,

JB

[sthughes]

Hi sthughes,

I think (hope) Franco was was suggesting that the groundsheet be cut to cover one vestibule rather than both (as opposed to saying that one vestibule should be removed from the tent) .

Re your sitting up in the Scarp 1 comment, how tall are you?

Thanks.

Cheers,

JB

Not real tall, just under 6 foot (can't remember exactly).
I seem to be long in the body however as I have the same issue in many small tents. For example my Microlight is plenty long enough but much too low. When Brett gets in it, laying down he pushes both ends with head and feet, but sitting up is no worse than me, despite being 4 to 5 inches taller than me The only solo tent I have tried that is good for height is the Hubba HP. While it is only a smidgen higher than most others it has a flat ceiling rather than a peak which makes a big difference.

[corvus]

Tyvek ground sheet for Scarp 1 weighs 126g and it is 1m wide.
corvus

[Franco]

JB got what I meant. Yes you could have a groundsheet shaped like the one of that Estonian made tent (....) so that it covers one but not both vestibules.
I would still prefer to cook over bare ground than some plastic.
Another way is the Bibler type where the non opening door panel has a cover/pocket. So you put your stuff there and use the other half to cook under .
can't find my pics of that but it was used in the Bibler Pinon
One of my mates is 6' /6'1" and he can sit inside the Akto on a thin mat. So no problem for him inside the Scarp 1.
Franco
BTW, this is what the Akto should look like, at least when it's dry..

[north-north-west]

Hmmmmmm . . .You've pretty well convinced me to go for the Scarp, lads. With crossing poles, of course. And a sheet of Tyvek (if I can get it) for a groundsheet. Should be plenty of room and still lighter than the Nallo et al.

Now, just to wait until the Aussie $ goes up again . . .

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[corvus]

Hmmmmmm . . .You've pretty well convinced me to go for the Scarp, lads. With crossing poles, of course. And a sheet of Tyvek (if I can get it) for a groundsheet. Should be plenty of room and still lighter than the Nallo et al.

Now, just to wait until the Aussie $ goes up again . . .

G'day n-n-w,
You have the option to purchase Tyvek with the Scarp at a fair price which will save you having to search it out locally.
corvus

[Jellybean]

Will stay tuned for the Scarp 2 with winter fly length as it might be an option for a luxury under two kilogram solo tent.

Hi Brett,

If possible, I will give you a bit of a review after this weekend. Two friends have each just bought the new Scarp 2 (it's been a very long wait since they first ordered due to the new design still being in production, but one of them received his this week and will be using it for the first time in Kanangara NP this weekend). 'Will report back.

Cheers,

JB

Sorry Brett, can't give you much of a report this time. We arrived at the campsite very late on Friday night (due largely to thick fog over the last 20km of unsealed road which restricted visibility to 2 - 5m and reduced travel speed to a crawl), and pitched the tents (and my tarp) quickly before the rain set in. After heavy rain all night (and poor weather forecast for the whole weekend - 4 of our original party of 8 piked at the last minute and didn't make the trip), we revised our walk plans and camped in a cave on Saturday night. No tents required. (As it turned out, we didn't get any more rain until we were driving out of the NP after the walk - thanks Huey!!)

Of the very little I saw of the Scarp 2 on this occasion, I can say that I was impressed at how quick and easy the Scarp 2 was to pitch and it's size! It's a great size for two people, for one person, an absolute palace! (One of the reasons the friend who owns it bought it was because it was light enough to carry and use as a solo tent but could also be used for two when required). I did quickly sit up inside it and was surprised at the headroom! I'm 185cm (6'1") tall - evenly proportioned (height split evenly between torso and legs) and, sitting on his Thermarest Prolite, I still had 4 -5 (possibly 6") inches of headroom. (Didn't lie down to check the length as he still had his gear everywhere).

Will provide a proper report next time I walk with him. What I did see has reinforced my plans to buy a Scarp 1 (I already have a good 2 man tent) and John is certainly happy with his purchase (he is only 5' 7' or 8" - so can't comment on the length - he had plenty of room! ).

Cheers,

JB

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Yeh i'd really like to know how the tarptents perform in Tassie conditions at altitude??

[Son of a Beach]

Yeh i'd really like to know how the tarptents perform in Tassie conditions at altitude??

The reply to this, and the many related comments regarding low temperatures and conditions at altitude have been split off to their own topic.

[Mountain Rocket]

I know this thread is old and all, but I still feel it is somewhat relevant... well at least these two models seem to pop up a lot in recommendations so they are not yet (totally?) redundant. That said this thread feels very incomplete without Brett/Ent's comments. If anyone else has any musings they would like to add I would happily read them.

Cheers.

[stepbystep]

Like with a lot of gear purchases a lot of us justify what we have spent by finding the good points!

I have the Scarp1 and have been happy, it's roomier than the Akto and more versatile, the dual vestibules are excellent. The silnylon floor is annoying when camped on a slope though. The Scarp has stood up well to rain and hail and some gusty conditions on Mt Wright. The real test is yet to come as I have yet to camp in an exposed site when the wind is strong and sustained, the Akto is a proven performer in this regard.

[photohiker]

I know this thread is old and all, but I still feel it is somewhat relevant... well at least these two models seem to pop up a lot in recommendations so they are not yet (totally?) redundant. That said this thread feels very incomplete without Brett/Ent's comments. If anyone else has any musings they would like to add I would happily read them.

Cheers.

Couldn't agree more. Deleting prior posts is vandalism imho. Reflects an attitude of taking one's bat and ball home leaving the other players stranded mid game.

Both tents have good points, and they have been covered pretty well in this and other threads. I've not slept in an Akto, but been in several and I've had a Scarp for must be nearly 2 years now. Personally, I doubt that there is much between them in terms of strength or wind/water proofness. Anyway, here is my list of features and preferences:

Design: Scarp. Has a seam running from the corner to halfway up the side of the centre hoop to take up the extra fabric created by the tunnel design. When pitched taut, it shows a smooth outer envelope compared to the Akto. The Corners are also very strong, being triangulated.

Weight: Scarp. Not much in it though.

Packability: Akto. Scarp's minimum dimension dictated by the corner poles and the main pole is longer than the Akto, so not as easy to sling under a pack top cover etc.

Pitch ease and speed: About the same, not much in it, especially once you get familiar with the tent.

Colour: Akto. I give this to the green Akto, only because bright moon or early morning sun illuminates the inside of the Scarp so well its like daylight in there. Not sure that the red Akto would deliver as well in this regard (it could).

Condensation: About the same, I think. I have had condensation in the Scarp, but only when pitching on wet ground on a still and/or rainy night.

Features: I give this to the Scarp, twin vestibules are great in a solo tent. Just pitch it where you want it and use the door that suits. If the weather turns some, you can switch sides no problem.

HTH

[norts]

I have a red Akto and never seen in the flesh a Scarp of any kind. My one man tent before the Akto was a Macpac Microlight.
The red gives a nice glow.

I have problem with the Akto, folding it up, still havent worked out the best way. The material is so slippery it doesnt fold well and if you roll it around the 4 stays its not a neat package. Any Ideas?

I am also going to seam seal the the four corners of the floor, one started to leak the other day on Thetis, there was a lot of water outside , I was camped in a a small run off.

Holding the door open on the fly is fiddly but if you dont roll it and just pull it up and secure it it is ok.

Roger

[Nuts]

You may have it worked out as best it can norts but we lay it all onto the black base, fold the small poles in then over once more (so each end has the poles together. Then fold the two ends to each other (ie the base in half) and roll (towards the gathered ends). Leaves the tent black floor showing, everything else tucked away.

Last edited by Nuts on Wed 12 Oct, 2011 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[corvus]

I was so impressed with the Scarp 1 I also bought a Scarp 2
corvus

[Son of a Beach]

Most of the off-topic posts regarding the missing posts in this (and other) topics have now been removed. If people want to discuss that issue further, please do it in the "Forum and Site" forum.

An admin perspective on that issue, in brief: I do understand the frustration with many posts having been deleted by some members. The forums configuration was changed some time ago so that it is no longer possible for people to delete their own old posts without explicitly applying to the admin team for it, and a good reason must be supplied (and an administration fee may be charged for this). The reason being that it causes problems to other members who may be trying make sense of older topics.

However, there are some good reasons for some people deleting their old posts. I know of two people on these forums who have done it for good reasons (and others who've done it for reasons I'm unaware of, and others who've not had good reasons at all - in my opinion). Of course, I'm not going to go into what those reasons are, nor whether they apply to the person who deleted post(s) from this topic or not, but just want to say that some good reasons do exist.

Any replies to this post should be in the "Forum and Site" forum, please.

[north-north-west]

Pitch ease and speed: About the same, not much in it, especially once you get familiar with the tent.

The Scarp is far easier to pitch right when you're unaccustomed to the tent. I've never been happy with my pitching of the Akto, but the Scarp was perfect first time.,

Colour: Akto. I give this to the green Akto, only because bright moon or early morning sun illuminates the inside of the Scarp so well its like daylight in there. Not sure that the red Akto would deliver as well in this regard (it could).

The red Akto is brilliant. Cheery. Nice yellow inside, easy to see outside. The worst thing about the Scarp is the suicide grey colour.

have the Scarp1 and have been happy, it's roomier than the Akto ...

The Scarp has a smidgin more room under the fly, but less room inside the inner tent. Less floor space, anyway, even if the ends are higher. I'd rather be weathered in in the Akto than the Scarp.

Last edited by north-north-west on Tue 25 Oct, 2011 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

The worst thing about the Scarp is the suicide grey colour.

I was talking about light transmission, but by the sound of your comment, you should stay away from the Scarp.

I'm sure franco will be along shortly to confirm re space in the inner tent. Scarp has more than enough for me.

[Franco]

The worst thing about the Scarp is the suicide grey colour

Odd remark from someone that has (?) the tent because the fabric inner is white and that is what I see from inside the tent...
A good reason why most inners are white is because it is neutral so your eyes don't need to readjust to daylight when exiting the tent.
(white of course also reflects more light so better for reading and so on)
If you use the mesh inner, then you get a shaded version of the outside light through the grey fly. Grey does not add or take away colour, just light.
(BTW... dark greens and blues are the suicide colours)

As for space , a bit hard to compare not having the two side by side.
The Scarp has a rectangular floor, 81cm wide and 218 long. (19'sq/1.8 sq m)
The Akto is 61cm at the end, 90 cm in the middle and 220cm long.
(some may be able to work out the square footage of that...)
However having a similar corner height 9 I think that the Scarp is ,at33cm, just a tad higher, the Scarp is about 10cm taller so i feel that the internal volume is larger in the Scarp.
Franco
Moontrail at the rescue...
http://www.moontrail.com/tents/hilleberg_akto.php
The floor of the Akto is 1.7 m sq, therefore combined with the extra 10 cm apex height the Scarp has greater volume.

[stepbystep]

The floor of the Akto is 1.7 m sq, therefore combined with the extra 10 cm apex height the Scarp has greater volume.

Not to mention the extra vestibule adds significant versatility....I use one on the more exposed side for pack/boots/gaiters and can use the other one for entry/exit/cooking and storing other bits'n'pieces.

I do agree the grey-ish colour isn't the wisest for light transmission and visibility in mist. Is there any reason Henry has no flexibility in the colour scheme area?