One person's walk to lighter gear

[Nuts]

I think I've seen that lid in the MYOG section?

Yeap I think it featured in that section. Very neat fix to a rather obvious oversight in Golite's design.

Cheers

Well...it is designed to be rolled like a dry bag lol
That it is overloaded and worn higher than any textbook would recommend shows how few set rules are useful.
Not much luck with those jackets eh..

[Strider]

I think I've seen that lid in the MYOG section?

Yeap I think it featured in that section. Very neat fix to a rather obvious oversight in Golite's design.

Cheers

Should have just bought a Quest to begin with.

[Ent]

Hi Nuts

Light weight jackets seem to be my Waterloo with gear. Might try a RAB one day. Might be asking for the impossible. The Air is on the right track but eVent in some brands just can not be trusted, yet in the RAB pants it appears to be good and you have had a good run with other eVent jackets.

At least the Montane Air breathed so much better that Sthughes MacPac experience. If give it a few more goes and then let Montane know my experience.

So far lighter weight is bit of hit and miss. Delighted with the One Planet Shadow and the light weight Thermarest preformed well. No issue with any of the WM bags and gradually accepting the Jetboil for what it is. They will be keepers. The MSR Nook is a classic problem of gear being imported into Australia without spare parts but that is a well known experience with that particular distributor.

Anyway nice getting under 20 kilograms total load for a day or two and looking hard at clothes so be trying a windshirt as what Flyfisher uses. Learning more from the people that I walk with as you get an honest first hand experience in the same conditions that I walk in. Now that weight includes quite a few luxuries but not really interested base weight just total weight so includes cameras, booze, etc.

Cheers

[dancier]

I treat waterproofness and breathability as a myth, then there are heaps of options on the market. You mentioned RAB, maybe try the Kinetic or even the HAGLOFS Endo II Pull which seems to be an improved replacement for the OZO.

http://www.haglofs.com/en-US/products/c ... en-us.aspx

http://www.campsaver.com/kinetic-jacket-men-s

[wayno]

they are highly breathable because they have very thin face fabric, more threads, more gaps beween teh thread to breathe
the endo uses gore tex active shell. it uses less glue to bond the membrane to the fabric and gore tex dont recommend if for scenarios where you are carrying a heavy pack with high friction on teh fabric...
the kinetic isnt designed as a mainstay jacket, more of an emergency jacket,
i've got a garment made from teh same fabric, you can see through it, its as thin as it comes...., i woldnt use it for my main jacket unless i was happy forking out regularly every time the fabric got damaged....

[Ent]

Thanks for the links and also the comments. It is rather tricky area as you can get some impressive light weight stuff but if it is not suitable for a pack then not much chop for the intended use. The Montane Air fabric is tough enough for bit of light scrub work that you brush against on tracks or open alpine areas but the bubbling suggests that the bonding job is inadequate for pack use and even in general use. What I am after is a jacket that can stand continuous pack use and tough enough for the light scrub that you encounter on tracks or alpine areas. The Paddy Pallin Vista is great for bushbashing and rock sliding but many walks are not that extreme.

The big issue is the marketing types that are flogging jackets as bushwalking grade when really they are cycling or running jackets. Some advertising is rather misleading as really it should be made clear if the jacket is suitable for pack or not. Should not have to rely on the purchaser having to establish this. I accept that abrasion and tear resistance is near impossible to say much about as everyone has a different opinion on what is acceptable. Gore-tex are way superior than eVent in defining this with the Pac-lite specifically not recommended to extended pack wear so full marks to them. eVent seems to be the area of "optimistic" marketing but some grades and brands are great while other brands not up to scratch. I am with wayno that some heavy grades of eVent have breath-ability issues due to the gluing and outer layers used. At least with the low price of the Montane Air it was worth the suck it and see approach but at full retail price I would not be a happy camper as two overnight walks should not reduce a jacket to rubble.

Cheers

[ULWalkingPhil]

I've been following this topic with interest.

I purchased one of those Montane Air eVent Jackets while they where on sale for $135.00.
I've worn it on numerous occasions in the rain with no pack on, the best jacket I've ever owned, Only once I've had to wear on a overnight hike with my pack on, that was at Fraser Island on a 7 day hike. It performed well, No sign of any of this delamination thus far.

It worries me what I have read with this fault. From what I have read here, I think I will save this jacket for wearing around town and in the yard and look elsewhere for a waterproof jacket. I'm eyeing of the Cuben Rain Jacket made by Zpacks. It's not cheap, but is light and from what I've heard durable, as it's made from a tougher Cuben material than what you generally see with Tarps and tents.
Price: this is interesting, because if this Cuben Jacket made by Zpacks in the US is as durable as some reports I've read and apparently it's very breathable, than the advertised price compared to what we pay for a decent waterproof jacket here in Australia is very competitive. I don't have the spare funds at the moment, but when I do, I'm going to purchase one. What I like the most is it's weight.

Here's some info on the Cuben Jacket from the suppliers. They say the jacket is strong enough for light brush, so you probably would not want to wear it in thick scrub, for trails with just some light bush bashing, I think this might be a very good option to help decrease the weight of your back.

ZPacks™ Waterproof Breathable Cuben Fiber Rain Jacket
new on 10/4/11!
Specifications:
Size Medium:

Weight: 4.5 ounces (127 grams) / $225
Waist / Chest Girth: 42"

Size Large:

Weight: 4.7 ounces (133 grams) / $225
Waist / Chest Girth: 46" (shown)

Description:

Contructed from 1.42 oz/sqyd Waterproof Breathable Cuben Fiber material! The fabric is a three layer laminate with high strength Dyneema fibers in the middle. In our testing the strength, waterproofness, and breathability have all proved to be pretty good. The jackets are breathable enough to sleep in or hike in if it is cold out without getting clammy.

The material is thick enough to withstand light brush, and can be easily patched with tape.

[wayno]

there was a chap on here a while back who wrote a trip report he did wearing a cuben jacket, he commented about it delaminating, i can't recall who it was exactly

[ULWalkingPhil]

there was a chap on here a while back who wrote a trip report he did wearing a cuben jacket, he commented about it delaminating, i can't recall who it was exactly

That's interesting, maybe there's no such thing as a lightweight rain jacket suitable for backpacking. Looks like the straps are the culprits on our packs.

I wore a Poncho for the first time recently and it worked out great. I always thought they look silly, I still think they look silly but was very effective in keeping myself and pack dry. you can only wear on trails, not for bush bashing. Now with the weather starting to warm up, I think I'll just take my poncho.

[wayno]

columbia's omni dry membrane is polyethylene, far stronger than the normal polyeurethane membranes, they can make the membrane a lot thinner because of this. although their early peak to peak model was polyester shell. i think the latest version is nylon.
i've got the peak to peak, its 450 grams, but its still a decent weight shell because so litte weight is taken up by the membrane...
have to watch the sizing though generally need to go a size up at least
i havent used it enough to comment about durability yet. bot issues so far after a couple of overnight trips

or you could go down the road of proshell and the various brands that make those jackets. gore 3L has tended to be the way to go for bombproof gear
people seem to rave about arcteryx jackets, they issue a big range of fabric weights and cuts for their jackets and hybrid ones with heavier material for the high wear areas.

[Ent]

Hi

Penguin has one of the Cuben jackets. Rather basic design and hood. He likes it but not for me.

The delimination with the Air might be a factor of tumble drying so strong recommendation not to tumble dry despite that been required by a few DWR restorers.

One day I will find or start a thread on DWR restoring products. Tried the Grangers wash-in with the Air.

Cheers

[wayno]

interesting, because dwr garments recommend using an iron to improve the dwr treatment. so if its a heat issue with the tumble drying affecting your jacket , how would it cope with the heat from an iron? i wonder about how waterproof event will stay long term. its not so much a membrane as a jumble of microsopic fibres at randome angles. if over time they break then the waterproofness will drop. neoshell is a similar construction and gives a waterproof wating of 10,000 but dropping to 5,000 after a few dozen washes.
if you really need a bombproof jacket and can't afford to replace it in the long run then stick with something like gore tex 3Layer

[blacksheep]

eVent certainly is a membrane technology. It is an extruded film of PTFE (ePTFE). A true microporous membrane. The only diffence to this membrane and that Gore uses is that eVents is oleophobic so it will not contaminate with oils (but still best to wah often), whereas Goretex coats the ePTFE layer of PU to protect from oils..the downside to the Gore system is the PU halfs the rate mositure vapour (sweat) can pass through .
I maintain that any 3 layer using less than a 40D fabric in contact with pack rub areas will struggle to meet the expectations antipodeans have of our gear.

[wayno]

much bigger pores in event and less material between the pores

http://www.eventfabrics.com/eVent_technology.php

[Strider]

I maintain that any 3 layer using less than a 40D fabric in contact with pack rub areas will struggle to meet the expectations antipodeans have of our gear.

What is the denier weight of the Traverse, Cam?

[blacksheep]

Wayne, that image is comparing ePTFE and pu. Yes, ePTFE is direct venting system, pu is a wet system, no argument there. But when you say eVent has bigger and more open pores are you comparing this to something other than pu?
Strider, the traverse has 70d on the shoulder area, where jackets tend to take a beating when used with packs. The body is considerably lighter. As way no said in a previous post, the lighter/ thinner fabrics do allow for higher mvtr rates.

[Ent]

Hi

The most damaged area of the jacket is around the waist belt. Shoulders largely untouched.

No doubt the Gore-tex proshell is the best jacket material for wear and breathability compromise that I have. Sthughes Hollyford is pilling, useless DWR and does not breath much. Downright disaster. The mid weight Montane eVent Venture jacket is rubbing as well but at least breaths well and the DWR not too bad.

We are talking rather limited use except for the PP Vista that has copped a battering and lot of use. It is my go to jacket but light it is not.

Shame about the Air as it was looking good. As mentioned the delimination is now in the arms so bigger issue than pack rubbing. And this is after only two overnight walks!

Cheers

[wayno]

someone in bivouac told me they get less complaints about pertex shield 2.5L than they do about gore tex... outdoor research are big on pertex. they have a three layer jacket out now. about 450 grams paladin compable breathability to gore tex.
if my columbia doesnt last i'll go to outdoor research, they also do proshell, reasonable prices. beats paying arcteryx prices.
i've got pertex shield overtrou... held up well so far,, moderate amount of use. stretchy. dwr not the best and not the worst...

[Ent]

Coming back from an Achilles operation lighter weight (by my standards) was the call for the first overnight trip which was Mount Tyndall. The weather forecast did not look promising so the One Planet Shadow was crammed with warm gear plus loaded up with ample drinking water in case water was scarce. Actually water was plentiful and the weather turned out to be be a cracker of two days but it was cold at night. The Shadow claims a maximum load weight of twenty kilograms but was loaded to twenty-one kilograms so a real test and one that it sailed through. I love all my One Planet packs, especially their harnesses. For twenty kilograms I think that the Shadow harness is arguably the most comfortable, even beating out my past favourite, the Mungo, for that weight range. Brilliant pack for track to light scrub and all the care you need is being selective when dropping it to the ground to avoid abrasive rocks.

Mount Tyndall is a brilliant mountain with a 700 metre plus climb required that rewards you with 360 degree views from Cradle to French Mans Cap and over the sea. Highly recommended walk with a rather narrow track through the scrub and the charms of conglomerate rock to negotiate. Many good camping spots at Lake Tyndall where the track leads you to.

The Jetboil TI was adequate for the simplified menu. The Western Mountaineering Versalight needed the minus twelve rating to deal with the MSR Nook tent. Though the temp only got down to one degree it felt a lot colder. The Western Mountaineering down flash pants were needed at night for cooking along with a nice warm down jacket.

The MSR Nook is a frustrating tent in many ways with most things being rather fussy which shows in the time taken to pitch it. The zips are prone to jamb and the vestibule mud mat, as mentioned before, is an exercise in poor design. Will take up a fellow walker's suggestion on having it sown to the main groundsheet. It is near impossible to stretch out the floor tight and the supplied pegs just too small to hold in the soft alpine ground. It is rather an exercise in impressive weight specifications than usability as the vestibule is way too small for one, let alone two packs. My Hilleberg Nallo is just so much nicer. The large amount of mesh in the inner make it a cold tent but did eliminate a lot of condensation issues that the non MSR tents had that night. But it is light and well made plus as the name suggests, needs a remarkably small area to pitch it.

Below is a picture taken at night of it along with a Hilleberg Akto, MSR Hubba Hubba HP and Tarp Tent 2.

Cheers

[Onestepmore]

Good reviews. Out of interest, which of the four tents above would you say performed the best under those conditions?

[Strider]

The large amount of mesh in the inner make it a cold tent but did eliminate a lot of condensation issues that the non MSR tents had that night.

Interesting that the Scarp owner decided to seal up completely, despite the (seemingly) good weather.

[Nuts]

Ha, that's where I camped a few weeks ago. Hey, you guys are awfully close Who's the adventurer over on the right?
Nice pics, do you have any more?

[Ent]

Good reviews. Out of interest, which of the four tents above would you say performed the best under those conditions?

The weather forecast was for heavy rain so everyone had their flys sealed up to avoid being soaked. Condensation is on of those weird things that happens to varying degrees depending on user and even the patch of ground that the tent is pitched on. It was rather damp underfoot so pretty severe conditions for generating condensation.

As for the best tent? Well this is always a dangerous question to answer as each person's opinion is likely to differ. Personally, I think that the MSR Hubba Hubba HP best suited the conditions with the right amount of ventilation and warmth. The Akto was new to the user and rather closed up so in that setup more prone to condensation. The Tarptent was sleeping two so had the odds stack against it. The Nook had minimal condensation but was very cold.

Cheers

[Onestepmore]

Thanks Ent. Hmm, I had just been wondering how the Scarp perfomed, being a single skin, as hubby and I have one of them on the way. I'm presuming there were condensation issues?
If we do any more alpine camping, which we hope to, then I was wondering if the Scarp will be adequate, or further down the track do we buy, say a Jannu? I like the flexible vestibule configurations but head entry is always a little akward. I like the side vestibule of the Staika but it's 700g heavier. Our first above treeline camping was in the Snowies in NSW at Easter and we loved it- we had our son with us so took so took a Hilleberg Nallo 3GT but it's a bit big and heavy for just two of us. (Other future contenders are the MSR Fury (too fiddly to set up tho?), the Marmot Alpinist (single skin tho, and maybe vestibule too small?) or Exped Venus II (I like the 2 vestibules))

Pretty campsite btw!
/envious

[Strider]

Scarp is full double wall Shelly

[Onestepmore]

Duh, yes I knew that...
Been looking at too many tent descriptions

[Strider]

Duh, yes I knew that...
Been looking at too many tent descriptions

I would hope you knew that being you have one on the way!

[wayno]

all teh best for the big day !

[Ent]

Hi Onestepmore

A double skin tent that can closed up is always a good choice for alpine areas hence my love of the Hilleberg range. All the tents used would have once been classed as lightweight to even been considered too light weight. But I would be happy that any of them could handle structurally expected conditions on the West Coast of Tasmania.

Condensation was noticeable in the Akto type tents but that is a result of low roof over the sleeper and cold night. The Nook's high end helps and the Hubba Hubba HP has vents that help.

My preferred tent is still the Nalllo two as the spacious vestibule is great. The Akto is a great single person tent to actually use for living with. As you get good shelter when cooking around it and vestibule that can handle a big pack. These are areas where the Nook struggles.

Cheers

[wayno]

does anyone do a hiking tent where you can change how much of the internal wall is mesh? so you could zip up the mesh area and increase the insulation? then open it back up when you need more ventilation? would seem like a good answer to the quandry of is this tent too hot or too cold for where i'm going to pitch it....