Hilleberg from Campsaver (& shipping policy)

[Ent]

It is interesting comparing and contrasting online versus bricks and mortar stores. A classic example is quality of service.

To me quality has four aspects, design, materials, construction and service. As a buyer if the first three hold then you will never experience the fourth.

Warranty claims tend to be a nightmare for some reason in Australia with often the customer portrayed as a whinger. I came from a manufacturing background where it is accepted that despite all the quality system problems will sneak through. All you want to know what went wrong so you can fix it. One way is to get the product back for examination. But if you know the batch or the reason no need so either replace or credit the customer without bothering anyone shipping back known faulty goods.

It annoys me the demand that customers have to front up with a receipt especially if the product has not been on the market for the length of the warranty period runs. Also many sale dockets fade to unreadable in less time than the warranty.

Now with online stores they nearly always have sophisticated systems that allow them to check back so this potential insult to the customer doubting the purchase does not happen

With Campsaver I brought amongst many things a lighter that failed to work. Their response was simple. They checked that they shipped it and understood that once it was filled with gas return was near impossible so issued a credit no questions asked.

Same thing happened with torch from another shop in the USA and same result. My Primus Gravity windshield cracked in half on first use so I sent an Ent type email to Primus. My reply was it had failed because it was junk and a sub supplier had skimped on the specifications. A brand new stove turned up. There was no demand for proof so not surprisingly my stove collection is dominated by Primus gear as they have ticked all four quality boxes.

I am not wedded to any retail model as a quality bricks and mortar can easily justify the premium they charge. What I struggle with is sole distributors. The lack of competition means that they have no incentive to provide service.

Cheers

[wayno]

the online stores recognise the issue where people may have trepidation about dealing with them because there isnt a bricks and mortar shop to deal with them and they are a lon way away... so they uoften have favourable terms for dealing with returns and credits... the ones that are stocking reasonable quality gear expect there shouldnt be an unacceptable no of people wanting to return items and they should be able to make money and put up with people returning gear if they want to. that encourages people to shop with them, higher volumes, bettter deals.... more profit. covers them for returns and credits

[Nuts]

What I struggle with is sole distributors. The lack of competition means that they have no incentive to provide service.

Cheers

What. Like One Planet? Or just those at any given consumers discretion?

[slparker]

My hilleberg akto just arrived in the mail. 90 bucks off via campsaver.

[Ent]

What I struggle with is sole distributors. The lack of competition means that they have no incentive to provide service.

Cheers

What. Like One Planet? Or just those at any given consumers discretion?

Err Nuts One Planet is a manufacturer so how can they compete against themselves?

[Nuts]

Precisely. There are a few retailers. Who is the distributor? Do you Really think that OP don't have considered control over pricing??
In their retail arrangement, where is the opportunity for heavy discounting and reducing profit margins (so they can be compared to OS brands..)? Should they be 'forced' to set up international distributor networks and be subject to discounting? It kinda points to the imbalance of consumer arguments about best business practice and trade law. At the end of the day, consumers vote with their feet (or fingers), there is little else that can really be said that doesn't seem a bit silly (or at least naive) without actually being involved at some level in their business.

[Ent]

Nuts

Firstly if One Planet had price control then they would be staring down huge fines for anti competitive behaviour as they operate in Australia. Are you suggesting they are considering this?

Secondly, One Planet packs can be brought at discount as I did when Allgoods and Mountain Designs had them on special at different times of the year.

Thirdly, I can buy One Planet items from at least one online store.

Honestly I do not see your argument. They unlike Hilleberg are not attempting to have all resellers sell at the same price.

Hilleberg sell direct so I can only reason that they are disadvantaged financially if their resellers sold at a price lower than their list price hence engage in retail price maintenance to hold the price.

Surely resellers should be able to sell at a price that matches their business model. Ones with excellent service could charge more and knock out special ones less. The customer gets to decide.

I suppose it is if you believe in freedom and choice or cosy pricing arrangements. Keep the red flag flying.

[Nuts]

'Heavy' discounting. No I'm not suggesting anything. Working 'around' the law, if indeed it can apply, is a reality for any business. I don't see any communist underpinnings in doing so...obviously other countries can afford to do business (at all levels) a lot cheaper than AU.. we subject ourselves to international market where costs can be kept down at all levels by employing staff for peanuts.. yet we are fine with trade agreements.. oh I see fairness= communism blah, pretty hypocritical to me.

It's not really an 'argument' is it. You admit to being of unusual size. You seem to continually have warranty issues (lol). It seems to follow that some of your comments in support of any particular brand, now business model, seem to be unique to you world.. just observations (to me). meh, everyone is entitled to their opinion, some of mine are not that mainstream. I don't see anything better about a world where discretionary goods are continually cheaper. In fact I don't see much good about cheap imported foods either.. that's another rant for another day.

Bottom line, in this case, is that if one hadn't realised that Hilleberg had 'price maintenance' (a business practice to me, a hanging offence to others) all those years that one supported them, then it kinda shows as being quite naive or perhaps (as I'll prefer to believe) disingenuous for the sake of an 'argument'.. now.

[Ent]

Um? O'well back on topic Nuts.

Been chatting to Campsaver and found them great to deal with. They simply want to offer the best range of gear at the best price/service ratio that enables them to make a decent living. They found out that Australians were being worked over on freight so struck a $400 free freight deal. This is great as it takes the hassle of been shocked by the freight bill.

They are not happy campers on the do not ship bans and set pricing but are bound by agreements struck by their suppliers and are working hard to get their systems in place to minimize stuff ups. Also looking for brands that can be acceptable substitutes. In all a sincere attempt to fix the current issues. They sorted out the problems that I struck and found that Hilleberg will allow individual pricing based on quantity if pushed so by combining with people we got the outcome. O'well proves that if everyone tries to find a solution one can be had. To quote from a movie "what we need is a positive attitude". So very happy with them. People power wins!!!!

Um? Now back to the philosophical debate. Lets look at two well regarded brands and one respected local shop.

At Paddy Pallin Black Diamond gear is around 40% dearer than USA direct. Ten percent is the GST so nothing any Australian distributor can do about that. Ok factor in freight and the convenience of buying locally and for single items buying overseas is not worth the effort. But take a large Cascade Design Thermarest All Season mat and $300 less PP's 20% sale gives $260 price to us. Now in the USA it can be had for under $120. Err? I must be nuts but that in percentage terms is a lot dearer than BD. Arh yes it must be that a sleeping mat is more discretionary spending than say a set of walking poles? Forgive me for being me and assuming that BD's Australian distributor is different to Cascade Design Australia distributor.

Cheers

[RonK]

Moontrail have no problems sending Hilleberg directly to Australia

Yes indeed, I got my Soulo and Nallo 2 from them.

When I ordered my Soulo from Moontrail, I was told they couldn't ship to Australia. I ordered direct from Hilleberg, and got cheaper shipping.

[Ent]

With now at least three suppliers been under the do not ship impression it looks like someone higher up the supply chain got their wires crossed. Maybe Hilleberg themselves?

Hilleberg will allow shipment to Australia from the USA.

Cheers