Gas canister disposal

[Orion]

Oh, one odd thing I've noticed is that most canisters are slightly overfilled, at least the ones I've seen. I have a fairly sensitive gram scale. When I weigh canisters, a few are dead on the money, but it's more typical to find them a gram or two overfilled. Just an odd tidbit.

Here are the net weights of three Snowpeak 110g canisters:

109.95g
109.78g
110.72g

Also, the volume of this canister is about 221ml.
For a 230g size Jetboil canister the volume is about 504ml.

Tidbits.

[Orion]

More tidbits.

Although it doesn't have much if any bearing on refilling (or disposal) of canisters it was interesting to me to find that the behavior of canisters did not seem to match what the label or manufacturer website stated was inside.

Here is a plot of canister pressure from start to finish for two MSR Isopro canisters (circa 2006). The dark blue line is what theory predicts for a 20/80 (wt/wt) propane/isobutane mixture.



Note the initially high pressure that dissipates quite quickly. This isn't propane or butane escaping but something much more volatile. Although it is more pronounced in these samples, I have seen this in every canister I have measured. It is volatile enough that simply attaching and detaching the stove will result in pressure loss. This means that it will also have some effect on liquid feed stoves:

[hikin_jim]

Here are the net weights of three Snowpeak 110g canisters:
109.95g
109.78g
110.72g

Interesting! How are you able to determine the net weight so precisely?

HJ

[Orion]

How are you able to determine the net weight so precisely?

With a scale.

[hikin_jim]

How are you able to determine the net weight so precisely?

With a scale.

[hikin_jim]

I was at a bushwalking type store on Saturday. I took a look at the new Jetboil Crunchit which is essentially a "church key" for gas canisters. The tool has a threaded portion that connects to the threads on a canister and as the tool is screwed down, depresses the Lindal valve within, releasing any gas. Seems like a fairly sound idea. Now, how many locations will actually accept punctured canisters for recycling is a different matter.


HJ

[corvus]

G'day HJ that is the one I mentioned and it is good to now know what a "church key " is
corvus

[corvus]

Thanks for that link HJ, $37.00 Buy it now price from the same source +$9.00 postage ,may just have to have one of those because at $1.25 Au for 220g Butane it looks good against $7.95Au for 230g of Premium Blend Mix especially with my Stoves with heat exchangers that accept liquid feed.
corvus

Got one of these Gizmos the other day and first impression is very favourable big test is how will a refill perform ??
corvus

[hikin_jim]

G'day HJ that is the one I mentioned and it is good to now know what a "church key " is
corvus

That's a rather irreverent way to refer to a can opener/piercer. I'm not sure where that expression came from, but it's a sort of joke that has stuck. A lot of people know just what you mean by it. Odd how things like that are.

I noticed at the bushwalking type store near me that all the canisters on display stoves had a roundish hole in them -- as from a nail or similar. Apparently the local bushwalking store doesn't see the value of the very Jetboil tool that they sell.

HJ

[flyinglion2000]

Hello everyone,

I have been reading this thread with interest. I am a bit of newb to all this so humour me if I sound like a dill.

Some of this thread deals with re-filling "camping/bushwalking" type canisters with "long skinny ones" (as per the pics).

My question is why not just use in the field the long skinny ones instead? So you don't have to go to the bother of decanting one into the other. Surely there are adaptors that can utilise the long skinny cans with the sorts of stoves that can be used with the "camping/bushwalking" type canisters? Or am I missing something?

I appreciate that the long skinny ones are a different shape/size and would pack/tramsport differently but is this difference enough to warrant the time effort and risk/hazard of refilling?

My two cents - appreciate any insights into this point.

cheers

[hikin_jim]

There are a couple of issues with the long, skinny ones:
1. They have a "male" Lindal valve. The valve sticks out of the canister. It's very easy for things in your pack to hit that valve and release the gas. That would be bad. Yes, they come with a little plastic cap to protect the valve, but that cap comes off very easily. Ask me how I know this.
2. The connector isn't very secure. There is the possibility of an accident if you bump one in cramped quarters.

You can carry an adapter, but then that's more weight and bulk to pack -- and more to fiddle with out in the bush. I personally prefer to do the fiddling at home. I use the long skinny ones with a vulnerable valve and a poor connector to fill the nice threaded ones with a recessed "female" valve (that won't be hit accidentally) with a secure threaded connector.

You are right though that it does take a bit of faffing about to refill the standard canisters.

HJ

[corvus]

One other point is if you are using a canister top burner with the long ones you have a very unstable base.
corvus

Sorry missed the side adaptor

[flyinglion2000]

thanks for the feedback guys.

Hi Corvus, how did you go with the re-fill adaptor you bought from Japan? I'd be very interested to hear your experience and opinion.

Cam

[corvus]

G'day Cam,
The unit is very well made and works well especially with the recipient left in the freezer and the donor in the sun for a while b4 transfer ,got a MSR Pocket Rocket to roar plus the Brunton (whats its name ?? with the platinum mantle)) gas Latern to glow in my kitchen with the transferred gas
Would have never considered doing this gas transfer till I saw this unit so I now have summer and winter canister stoves (summer gas $1.25 winter $7.95)and I can top up my winter ones for Autumn use in Tasmania
corvus

[michael_p]

...Surely there are adaptors that can utilise the long skinny cans with the sorts of stoves that can be used with the "camping/bushwalking" type canisters?

Adapter for skinny cans: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adaptor-Nozzle-Gas-Bottle-Screwgate-Camping-Stove-Gear-/310346721007?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item48421b26ef.

Having used one of these adapters before it is a bit of a pain to have to put together and take apart and they do add weight. And I have to agree with hikin_jim, the skinny canisters are more trouble than they are worth (YMMV).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Michael.

EDIT - Just stumbled onto this adapter: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-SHORT-GAS-CYLINDER-ROUND-STOVE-ADAPTOR-LANG-CAN-/110788672152?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cb84fa98.
Looks interesting.

[hikin_jim]

One other point is if you are using a canister top burner with the long ones you have a very unstable base.
corvus

You can get an adapter with a 90 degree angle in it (as in Michael's post above). I've used that adapter for testing, but I can't see taking it into the bush. The "long" canister connector isn't very secure.

HJ

[hikin_jim]

G'day Cam,
The unit is very well made and works well especially with the recipient left in the freezer and the donor in the sun for a while b4 transfer ,got a MSR Pocket Rocket to roar plus the Brunton (whats its name ?? with the platinum mantle)) gas Latern to glow in my kitchen with the transferred gas
Would have never considered doing this gas transfer till I saw this unit so I now have summer and winter canister stoves (summer gas $1.25 winter $7.95)and I can top up my winter ones for Autumn use in Tasmania
corvus

Yeah, it's a nice unit, and paying pennies on the dollar isn't so bad either.

With a nice rig like that, transferring isn't too bad. I usually top off or fill several canisters at a time rather than doing one at a time.

HJ

[flyinglion2000]

EDIT - Just stumbled onto this adapter: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-SHORT-GA ... 19cb84fa98.
Looks interesting.

Hi Michael

I have one of those type adapators - they don't inspire 100% confidence as the connection to the long can feels a bit loose / suspect and not rock solid fixed. Its like probably what Hiking Jim was alluding to earlier in this thread that the male connector on the long can is not a engineer isnpired connection system - just a cheap mechanism to let the gas out not conrol its release into another piece of equipment. I've noticed I lose a bit of gas when making the connection with this adaptor to the long can.

I've taken the plunge and am going to give one of these puppies a go. Hopefully it will arrive in time for Xmas and will give a report once i have tried it out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KOVEA-COBRA-ADA ... 20bcf37362

cheers

[flyinglion2000]

Hi Corvus

Good to hear that it does the job and cost effectively too. I daresay I will go this path as well.

I visited the webpage of that seller ( http://tumekaekun.com ) and they have a heap of adaptors and what picqued my interest was an adapator that can take a long can and mate it to a MSR Dragonly (as well as a Whisperlite and another) . Does anyone have any experience or views with using "gas" through a Dragonfly (or similar "liquid" fuel stove)?

http://tumekaekun.com/SHOP/MSR-DF.html

Note the website is in Japanese but Google Translate does a pretty good job of converting it to English!

[hikin_jim]

I've taken the plunge and am going to give one of these puppies a go. Hopefully it will arrive in time for Xmas and will give a report once i have tried it out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KOVEA-COBRA-ADA ... 20bcf37362

cheers

Generally, anything from Kovea is a good bit of kit. I'll be interested in hearing how it goes with this one.

HJ

[michael_p]

EDIT - Just stumbled onto this adapter: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-SHORT-GA ... 19cb84fa98.
Looks interesting.

Hi Michael

I have one of those type adapators - they don't inspire 100% confidence as the connection to the long can feels a bit loose / suspect and not rock solid fixed. Its like probably what Hiking Jim was alluding to earlier in this thread that the male connector on the long can is not a engineer isnpired connection system - just a cheap mechanism to let the gas out not conrol its release into another piece of equipment. I've noticed I lose a bit of gas when making the connection with this adaptor to the long can.

I've taken the plunge and am going to give one of these puppies a go. Hopefully it will arrive in time for Xmas and will give a report once i have tried it out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KOVEA-COBRA-ADA ... 20bcf37362

cheers

Thanks flyinglion2000. Always good to get feedback from someone who has actually used a product.

That Kovea Cobra adapter looks good. A report on your experience with it would be great.

Cheers,
Michael.

[hikin_jim]

EDIT - Just stumbled onto this adapter: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-SHORT-GAS-CYLINDER-ROUND-STOVE-ADAPTOR-LANG-CAN-/110788672152?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cb84fa98.
Looks interesting.

This style isn't too bad. The ones where it's a big stainless steel disk with only a couple of flanges to hold the canister in place are the ones I really think are questionable. Kovea makes one of this style, and it has worked well for me.

HJ

[michael_p]

http://tumekaekun.com/SHOP/MSR-DF.html

Wow, they have some interesting adapters. Good find flyinglion2000.

Cheers,
Michael.

[hikin_jim]

I visited the webpage of that seller ( http://tumekaekun.com ) and they have a heap of adaptors and what picqued my interest was an adapator that can take a long can and mate it to a MSR Dragonly (as well as a Whisperlite and another) . Does anyone have any experience or views with using "gas" through a Dragonfly (or similar "liquid" fuel stove)?

http://tumekaekun.com/SHOP/MSR-DF.html

There are a couple of Japanese sites like that. They have adapters that look nothing short of fantastic. Tumekaekun (that you found) is one. The other I'm familiar with is http://alva.ne.jp

You could really spend some money on those sites!

HJ

[michael_p]

http://tumekaekun.com translated to English: http://translate.google.com.au/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftumekaekun.com%2F

http://alva.ne.jp translated to English: http://translate.google.com.au/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Falva.ne.jp%2F

[Tony]

I have just purchased a Gasmate Butane Appliance Adaptor from BCF, cost $22, it is designed to run a stove on top but I have adapted it to run my remote stove to use the much cheaper Butane gas for testing purposes, I will also be able to refill other canisters with it.

Tony

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[hikin_jim]

Oh, there you go again, Tony, making us all envious with your MYOG remote canister stoves. Is that a Crux or Gnat?

HJ

[Tony]

Oh, there you go again, Tony, making us all envious with your MYOG remote canister stoves. Is that a Crux or Gnat?

HJ

Hi HJ,

It actually is called a Kathmandu Backpacker stove Titanium, or a Gnat for short.

Tony

[corvus]

Sorry but it is a re- badged Fire Maple FMS-116T
corvus

[hikin_jim]

I swear I cannot tell the difference between the head of the Gnat stove and the head of the Crux stove. I wonder if they're both made by FMS?

Here is my Crux:


Here is a Gnat:


The controls and such are different, but the heads are strikingly similar, at least to my eye.

HJ