New Stove what to choose

[Solohike74]

I am a youngish, all season alpine and mountain hiker, what I'm about to tell you will come as a surprise to many.

I have most of my experience using gas canisters, including a jetboil stove, but recently gave up on the gas thing and chose a Trangia 25. I am rewarded with cheaper fuel costs, bigger pots for more meal flexibility, frypan, and the ability to make proper meals not just boil water for soups or dehydrated stuff. Gas canister stoves have proved expensive to operate. On another note re jetboil vs trangia, with the flat bottom trangia pots, I can put them on the hut stoves to melt snow or slow boil some water, which saves on my own fuel costs.

If you're in the market for a stove, I'd go Trangia. Not the mini, the 25 or 27. When I chose 25, the larger version, there is only a small difference in size and weight, but bigger pots are definitely more convenient and give more flexibility.

Trangia is simple to setup and run, there are no moving parts or anything that can get blocked up.

There's only one word to remember. Trangia.

[Strider]

The above seems to point out the issues with the Jetboil, rather than justify the benefits of a Trangia. If I need a bigger pot, I will simply buy a bigger pot.

[Tortoise]

Trangia is simple to setup and run, there are no moving parts or anything that can get blocked up.

The above seems to point out the issues with the Jetboil, rather than justify the benefits of a Trangia. If I need a bigger pot, I will simply buy a bigger pot

I believe she has listed some benefits of a Trangia. I used one for years, then finally converted to gas, for SPEED, ease of simmering, not running out of fuel at annoying times, matchless lighting etc.

It was the best thing since sliced bread - till it stopped working. Intermittently, and not when i took it back to the shop. So now i never know for sure if it'll work or not 2 of my walking companions have had the same thing - one with a Kovea (slightly different from mine), and one with a Jetboil.

So i'm considering going back to metho. Solohike is right as far as i can see in terms of reliability. In 20+ years of use, some multi-week walks, we never had a failure with the Trangia.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Trangia's are good. But they are just so big, bulky and heavy compared to the modern stove.

[Tortoise]

Too true. But they WORK. ALWAYS. I'm feeling that counts for a Fair Bit, after the last couple of failures. 3 different gas stoves in the last 3 walks

And i never took all the bits & pieces. Just one of the saucepans and a light billy lid, or a billy instead for more people. Cuts out some weight. Packed drinks etc into stove to use the extra space.

[ILUVSWTAS]

3 different gas stoves in the last 3 walks

Wow, are you cursed?

That would be frustrating. I've had 2 jetboils in the last 4 years, never had an issue.... (touch wood) but if I did, I dont think i'd ever go back to a Trangia.

[Tortoise]

I should clarify the stoves belonged to 3 different people But in a party of 2 or 3, it was significant. Very glad i didn't decide to share the stove like i always used to. Fortunately the other one of us had enough spare fuel each time.

Mine carked it on day 1 of 6. Makes me nervous.

[corvus]

As a stove "tragic" this is an interesting post what was the cause of the "failure" do you know? as there is not really much to go wrong in most gas stoves other than an occasional blockage in the jet which is unusual and easily fixed if it happens IMHO.
corvus

[Tortoise]

Ok, can you expand on the 'easily fixed'? Keen for any suggestions. The shop had none.

We're assuming blockage somewhere, as there was plenty of gas in the cannister each time, but none coming out when the stove was turned on.

[norts]

Was the stove the the Kovea all titanium?

[Tortoise]

Mine is 'titanium', not sure what you mean by 'all titanium'... is there a 'part titanium' too?

[corvus]

Ok, can you expand on the 'easily fixed'? Keen for any suggestions. The shop had none.

We're assuming blockage somewhere, as there was plenty of gas in the cannister each time, but none coming out when the stove was turned on.

What stove did this happen in
corvus
OOPs late post

[corvus]

Now that I know the stove question is what exactly did it not do please .

[norts]

One has a very square( kovea Supalite) and is all titanium and the other is rounded and has a brass part. Below is the topic when I had issues.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8504.
I had issues with the supalite and do not trust it. I couldnt get gas out of certain canisters

Roger

[Tortoise]

Sorry guys, pumpkin time is upon me. I'll check it out tomorrow if i don't go walking. I did post when it happened, but didn't really know in the end. Corvus, at first the pressure went down, so full bore was very wimpy. Then it stopped completely at first it would start up again and go wimpishly for a couple of minutes, then we couldn't get it to start at all.

Thought re cold gas, kept cyclinder in foot of sleeping bag at night (an unmentioned advantage for us vertically-challenged - there's plenty of room for it). One of the other stoves stopped at lunchtime on nice sunny day. Cannisters themselves were ok as the other person's stove worked on them.

[Solohike74]

Gee after all those hassles, the Trangia is sounding even more attractive.

Tell you something else about it. My sleeping bag zip plays up occasionally. Usually I get it shut with a pair of pliers but didn't have them with me on a recent night in Seamans Hut early this month. Ended up using the Trangia pot gripper just like pliers, I was right as rain!

When you use Trangia, also you are not creating waste with all the fuel cans going into the bin/recycle system. You just refill the bottle.

You always know how much fuel you've got left, not wondering...will this can be enough for my trip?

You can adjust how much fuel you're taking, like a little for a weekend, or lots for an expedition, to avoid carrying excess weight.

Metho is available almost anywhere in Australia. Just got another 1litre bottle this week at big w for under $4.

[Solohike74]

Thought re cold gas, kept cyclinder in foot of sleeping bag at night (an unmentioned advantage for us vertically-challenged - there's plenty of room for it). One of the other stoves stopped at lunchtime on nice sunny day. Cannisters themselves were ok as the other person's stove worked on them.

Some people are cheapskates and don't buy Jetboil brand for winter or alpine camping, if you get jetboil canister it works in winter in alpine areas have used it before myself.

Trangia, powered by metho, works in all temperatures, in all seasons.

[Strider]

Trangia's are good. But they are just so big, bulky and heavy compared to the modern stove.

Not to mention SLOW! It really saps that convenience factor that I've come to expect of my canister stove.

Also, its not just the weight of the Trangia itself. But also the weight of the half litre or so of metho you have to carry with you for a multiday walk (a touch over 400g - the same weight as my stove + canister of gas).

[Tony]

Trangia's are good. But they are just so big, bulky and heavy compared to the modern stove.

Not to mention SLOW! It really saps that convenience factor that I've come to expect of my canister stove.

Also, its not just the weight of the Trangia itself. But also the weight of the half litre or so of metho you have to carry with you for a multiday walk (a touch over 400g - the same weight as my stove + canister of gas).

I agree, while the Trangia is one of the greatest stoves ever, by today's standards they are heavy, and very slow when it is cold. Check this Stoves systems weight comparisons out.

I stopped using my Trangia when one very cold day in the snow, it took me more than half an hour to boil enough water for two cups of coffee, it also took more than one burner refill, I then went to a MSR Whisperlite, used it for a few years but realised it was still heavy and did not like that it could not simmer very well, then I went to gas and unless I am walking in less than -20C I will never go back to the Whisperlite or the Trangia.

Tony

[corvus]

Sorry guys, pumpkin time is upon me. I'll check it out tomorrow if i don't go walking. I did post when it happened, but didn't really know in the end. Corvus, at first the pressure went down, so full bore was very wimpy. Then it stopped completely at first it would start up again and go wimpishly for a couple of minutes, then we couldn't get it to start at all.

Thought re cold gas, kept cyclinder in foot of sleeping bag at night (an unmentioned advantage for us vertically-challenged - there's plenty of room for it). One of the other stoves stopped at lunchtime on nice sunny day. Cannisters themselves were ok as the other person's stove worked on them.

Tortoise I am intrigued with this problem and as we are both on the NWC I would be happy to have a good look at your stove PM me if you like.
corvus
By the way this is what the Superlite looks like http://www.westfield.com.au/au/retailer ... e~TKB-0707

[Mark F]

Roger Caffin (I think) once had a bad canister that clogged the jet (can't find the link) - your description of the problem certainly sounds like a slow clogging of the jet. THe other stove continuing to work does tend to confound this idea.

On a more general note it is vital to keep a gas stove clean. I keep mine in one of those zip pouches that Qantas give out on long haul flights. I finish cooking, eat while the stove cools then it goes back into the pouch. It also gets a decent clean after 3 or 4 trips. After this thread I am going to carry something so I can remove the jet in the field for cleaning.

[Solohike74]

Most people here will not be camping in the snow, so therefore trangia is excellent for those trips, IMO. When camping in the snow, its a bit variable, but often there will be the opportunity to use the stove in a hut.

[Strider]

Sorry guys, pumpkin time is upon me. I'll check it out tomorrow if i don't go walking. I did post when it happened, but didn't really know in the end. Corvus, at first the pressure went down, so full bore was very wimpy. Then it stopped completely at first it would start up again and go wimpishly for a couple of minutes, then we couldn't get it to start at all.

Thought re cold gas, kept cyclinder in foot of sleeping bag at night (an unmentioned advantage for us vertically-challenged - there's plenty of room for it). One of the other stoves stopped at lunchtime on nice sunny day. Cannisters themselves were ok as the other person's stove worked on them.

There has been cases for this stove of the centre pin not being long enough to properly open the valve in the canister. How tight are you attaching the stove, and what brands of canister have you tried?

[ULWalkingPhil]

I use to own one of those Trangia Stoves, good stove, but to heavy and not very efficient. It put me off using Metho as a fuel for my hikes. It was the only time I've ever used Metho as a fuel and was not very impressed with it because I had to carry so much of it.

In order to try to save some weight and better fuel consumption I purchased a Ultra Lightweight Gas stove. Worked well, but I didn't like the fact you have to cart those empty gas canisters with you, empty there apx 150 grams each. Carry two with you and that's 300 grams. It all adds up.

So I started to look into Esbit stoves. Purchased a simple Titanium 700ml pot with lid and a titanium stove stand weighing in at 130grams for the two. An esbit tab weighs 14 grams and I can boil 2 cups of water with enough Esbit Tablet to bring a further cup of water just to the brink of boiling. Worked great, but my homemade wind screen is not so successful. So I started looking into a windscreen when I came upon the Trail Designs cooking system. I've posted a review here on this forum on the cooking system. It's light and very fuel efficient.

Going back to the trangia systems and the Metho fuel.
I followed Bushwalking forums such as this one and another one and read reports other hikers using only 200 ml of fuel for a 4 or 5 day hike and have fuel to spare at the end. So I looked into this, when I found that the Trangia Stove is not very efficient in fuel consumption, and it's not all that quick to boil.

I now use 17ml of metho to boil 2 cups of water in 6 minutes on the trail designs cooking system. which weighs less than 100 grams. 177 grams if I use the Caddy container for storage, but the caddy is also a cup and bowl.
Esbit Tabs are the lightest fuel system for me on long hikes, Short hikes I take Metho.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Sorry guys, pumpkin time is upon me. I'll check it out tomorrow if i don't go walking. I did post when it happened, but didn't really know in the end. Corvus, at first the pressure went down, so full bore was very wimpy. Then it stopped completely at first it would start up again and go wimpishly for a couple of minutes, then we couldn't get it to start at all.

Thought re cold gas, kept cyclinder in foot of sleeping bag at night (an unmentioned advantage for us vertically-challenged - there's plenty of room for it). One of the other stoves stopped at lunchtime on nice sunny day. Cannisters themselves were ok as the other person's stove worked on them.

Tortoise I am intrigued with this problem and as we are both on the NWC I would be happy to have a good look at your stove PM me if you like.
corvus
By the way this is what the Superlite looks like http://www.westfield.com.au/au/retailer ... e~TKB-0707

I've got the same stove. I had this problem, exactly the same symptoms you mention here. I had to very tightly screw in the cylinder to the stove, this eliminated the problem. You need to get a very good seal between this stove and the cylinder. Screw in another half turn to a full turn to what you usually do and problem should go away. It's very scary just how tight I had to screw on that canister to get a good seal.
This particular stove don't have a very good mount in my opinion.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Sorry guys, pumpkin time is upon me. I'll check it out tomorrow if i don't go walking. I did post when it happened, but didn't really know in the end. Corvus, at first the pressure went down, so full bore was very wimpy. Then it stopped completely at first it would start up again and go wimpishly for a couple of minutes, then we couldn't get it to start at all.

Thought re cold gas, kept cyclinder in foot of sleeping bag at night (an unmentioned advantage for us vertically-challenged - there's plenty of room for it). One of the other stoves stopped at lunchtime on nice sunny day. Cannisters themselves were ok as the other person's stove worked on them.

There has been cases for this stove of the centre pin not being long enough to properly open the valve in the canister. How tight are you attaching the stove, and what brands of canister have you tried?

I think you've nailed the problem on the head. It all depends on the canister your using and how tight you screw in that canister. Where I live there's very little choose on brands of canisters. The ones sold here, all have this problem, The problem is worse as you use up the gas. I had to screw on that canister to the point that it was compressing the top of the canister so it would work. I don't use this system anymore.

[Gadgetgeek]

A buddy and myself have gone over this discussion many many times. Due to some fortunate circumstances he owns several stoves, and has used several more. Most of the MSR line, some canister stoves, some metho stoves, trangia and DIY beercan burners.
What we came to is this. There is no perfect stove for everyone. the "best" stove is only the best for your circumstances at that time. Need to melt a huge amount of snow? XKG (also doubles as an emergency signaling device) want to melt snow and have a conversation, Whiperlite. The regular one is quite good, but single fuel, you loose 10-20% (or so we guess) efficiency with the international, but it will burn almost anything. All of the other liquid fuel stoves are in the same theme, you can only get the heat available in the fuel, and you only get efficiency from single fuel stoves. I love my international, but it sucks as a solo stove. its heavy, dirty if you use kerosine, it is field serviceable, but I've had a couple times where its gotten plugged, and its taken a couple hours to get it cleaned up to go again (of course most people don't run 4 L of fuel through on a weekend )
Canister stoves are only going to be as good as A. the fuel B. conditions and C. large or small head. they are all variations on a theme.
Metho works, has a number of advantages, mostly that your stove is light, so your weight can be made up in the fuel. But it does have some pretty major limits.
Solid fuel stoves like Esbit or Hexamine or whatever also have advantages and disadvantages. (I've only ever used a cheap one, and it burned my soup, of course if I had room to stir the soup, it would have gone better)
I would break it down like this: Single person warm weather:cannister or metho. Single person cold weather, Metho or liquid fuel
Group warm weather:cannister, group cold: liquid fuel
of course with any of those you have to take a look at the disadvantages, and see what they will mean for you. Any stove can fail (although you'd have to run over a trangia to make that happen)

Metho burners are pretty easy to do yourself, so its worth looking around, finding a design inside your skill range and trying out. there is only so much heat in metho, so you'll be looking at 500ml boil times between 5 and 8 minutes, but it will give you an idea of how they work without spending much.

[scouts1]

My Whisperlite pump handle has snapped off, after 20 years [mainly stored) I guess it's done ok,
Luckily it broke at breakfast on the last day of a leg of the AAWT.
jetboil or replace pump handle?
I know this is a can of worms but I know nothing of this new wonderful invention that uses gas cartridges, and how they compare to the archaic Whisperlite I have grown to love,
With its flaring flame and idiosyncratic ways the Whisperlite may have singed its last arm hair!
Has anyone done the jump from liquid fuel to gas? I was thinking of a Jetboil Flash. I see Snowys have them online for $144.90 including the coffee kit, free postage. However 427 grams in weight, not sure how that compares with the old Whisperlite.

[Moondog55]

The stove tragic in me says fix the Whisperlite or buy a replacement, pumps are cheap relative to the cost of a new stove

[RonK]

Yes, I have Whisperlite and a Dragonfly which are no longer in use. I don't miss the flareups, the soot, the flameouts. And I don't miss carrying quantities of smelly fuel.
Initially I had concerns about the disposal of gas canisters, but soon realised they could be pierced and recycled.
I'm very satisfied with the convenience and fine flame control of canister gas stoves.