Tarptents bad ordering customer service

[Kingsleythelost]

Ive heard an awful lot about cottage industry. For me this is more important to show good customer service. Showing poor customer service like he did to me will do a cottage industry no good.

I would love to hear from the man himself as to why he thought it was justified. i know ive been attacked from pretty well every angle by the old timers on here with 1000's of posts but not many have mentioned he actually did give me bad service and failed to communicate with me. And then couldnt take a negative comment in one email and even accept my apology.

I didnt know it was raining in where ever he lives and couldnt seal my tent....however he did know when i wanted the tent.

[Onestepmore]

3 month wait for Mountain Laurel Designs

I do agree with you that an email or message saying that it could not be delivered within the time frame you wanted it would have been appreciated. I think this would have prevented a lot of the problems that eventuated. I still stand by my statement that I think your expectations of a two week turnaround were a bit unrealistic.

Anyway, go have a beer (or a heavy scotch!), watch some TV and be reassured that in a very short time some other post will occupy people's time and attention!

[corvus]

Wonder how long this topic will go on for ?
corvus

[Kingsleythelost]

[quote="icefest"]I waited 6 months before ordering my zpacks pack because I preferred a 4 week wait over a 10 week wait. I was happy to only have to wait 4 weeks until they had made my pack.
2 weeks is really short term for the cottage industry.

Did you really say "I plan on splashing that email all around the internet thanks"?[/quote

If you want to read the entire email i welcome Henry to post it here and come and discuss the issue....

The tent was In Stock....yep it was tight but i paid for express postage to ensure it would hit the target. If it was on order or anything else i can understand but the product was sitting in his store room.....The only catch was Sealing....With good communication it would of easily hit the target because i would have said dont worry just send it!

[Strider]

BTW, Kigsleythelost,
since you felt it was OK for you to publish private E Mails (thanks for the publicity anyway...) I feel that maybe it would have been correct also for you to include this comment of yours
"I plan on splashing that email all around the internet thanks"

Nowhere did any of Henry's emails state they were private.

[Kingsleythelost]

Scotch now your talking OSM!

[Onestepmore]

Sounds like you need one.

Put it to bed

[photohiker]

Put it to bed

Agree.

Yes, I read the thread. best drop it and move on.

[Franco]

Kingsleythelost,
Since you insist in posting your onesided comments maybe this E Mail from Henry to you will clarify some points :
"Just so you/we are clear, we explicitly ask all customers to:

“Please use the comments field on the order form to tell us your "need by" date so we can get your order to you on time.https://www.tarptent.com/ordering.html

There was no such request in the comment field and that field informs about about any urgency. After ordering, you then sent an email requesting seam-sealing to which we responded yes. Then you wrote back and asked "when will the tent be shipping I've got about 14 days before my next outing would love to take it ..?” I read that as a request for timely shipping but not drop-dead urgency and no sense that your future trip plans would be ruined without it. To the extent that we didn’t email you on the 19th to tell you it was raining we apologize. To the extent that you berated and belittled us, we exercised our right to not sell you a tent.

Thanks.
Henry Shires
This is my last comment here as I clearly suggested to the OP to have a look at another product.

[Kingsleythelost]

OMG your not going to let this go you and my reply...Considering you were complaining about airing emails in Public

Kingsley wrote

I appreciate the confusion, I missed a couple of things while ordering like seam sealing and dates. I found the ordering a little confusing. Im not used to having to read the entire screen. I normally just hit buy now

It was not idle banter between us as im not a mate I might talk to a friend in such a manner but if a customer asks for dates and even tells you dates it should be taken as such. Once you have mentioned dates and timelines it really should be known by all where each stands. Does that make sense? I do appreciate the confusions though.

I know my reaction was over the top but also feel sometimes we (you and me) work with irate customers and sometimes you just have to go ….What a dick… and get on with it. I don’t feel it was worth cancelling my entire order that id nicely sat there and waited on for 9 days. I woke up in a bad mood (im giving up cigarettes) but not your concern…I definitely was out of line im not defending my actions.

I did feel let down and rather than caning an order like that I would suggest maybe ask me a few questions and get to the bottom of my disgruntlement good customer relations works like that. I would have calmed quick enough in, the sale would have been done. No damage we both get on with our lives. You a bit more money and me a shin y new tent that I wanted.

Anyway best of luck I hear you make good tents guess ill never know,

Cheers
Kingsley


From: Henry Shires [mailto:orders@tarptent.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 2:19 AM
To: kingsley
Cc: <franco@tarptent.com>
Subject: Re: Thank you for your Tarptent order [331995]

Kingsley, due to international bank communications and/or weekend business hours differences between here and there, it sometimes takes a day for the bank to get the word that the transaction is void.

Just so you/we are clear, we explicitly ask all customers to:

“Please use the comments field on the order form to tell us your "need by" date so we can get your order to you on time.

https://www.tarptent.com/ordering.html

There was no such request in the comment field and that field informs about about any urgency. After ordering, you then sent an email requesting seam-sealing to which we responded yes. Then you wrote back and asked "when will the tent be shipping I've got about 14 days before my next outing would love to take it ..?” I read that as a request for timely shipping but not drop-dead urgency and no sense that your future trip plans would be ruined without it. To the extent that we didn’t email you on the 19th to tell you it was raining we apologize. To the extent that you berated and belittled us, we exercised our right to not sell you a tent.

Thanks.

Henry Shires
Tarptent


On Nov 23, 2013, at 5:58 AM, Henry Shires <orders@tarptent.com> wrote:

You were not charged and we voided the authorization yesterday. Attached is your receipt.

<Transaction Receipt.pdf>

On Nov 23, 2013, at 12:47 AM, kingsley <> wrote:

Hey Henry our relationship didn’t start very well but id like it to at least end well can you please return the funds so I may buy a different tent.

Thank you


From: Henry Shires [mailto:orders@tarptent.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 7:41 AM
To: kingsley
Cc: <franco@tarptent.com>
Subject: Re: Thank you for your Tarptent order [331995]

Dear Kingsley,

You were not charged when you ordered—it was as a credit card authorization, not a charge. You did not “pay extra money” because you were never charged.

Seam-sealing is an outdoor process that takes time and we told you that when you requested seam-sealing. When the wind and weather conspire, we are unable to seam-seal.

We reserve the right to not sell to people we deem not well-suited to our products. We have now voided the transaction authorization and canceled your order.

Henry Shires

Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959 USA
ph: 650-587-1548
fax: 801-459-9526
e-mail: info@tarptent.com
web: http://www.tarptent.com

On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:19 PM, kingsley <> wrote:


I really cant believe you guys have done that to me. Ive heard great reviews about your products but cant believe the service is this bad,

I paid extra money for prompt delivery also stated I needed the tent by a given date, Was told that it would be shipped and it wasn’t. No one bothered to mention anything too me. You have also effectivly charged me for a tent that has not been sent. I know you only put a hold on the money but it doesn’t leave it in my pocket.

I understand that seaming can be a smelly business but if our running a two bit organization that relys on good weather to get the job done? I know lots of people here in Oz that use your tents im imagining you have a lot of tents sold and sealed maybe its time to invest in an indoor area, what happens if it rains for a month?

Im looking forward to getting the tent but very disappointed in the service im receiving


From: Orders@tarptent.com [mailto:orders@tarptent.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 7:03 AM
To: kingsley
Subject: Re: Thank you for your Tarptent order [331995]

OK. Should we include the seam seal kit?

On Nov 22, 2013, at 11:54 AM, kingsley <> wrote:



Don't worry ill seal it myself please send the tent as I need it soon

Thx

Sent from my iPhone

On 23 Nov 2013, at 3:31 am, "Orders@tarptent.com" <orders@tarptent.com> wrote:
Hi Kingsley,
We are waiting for our weather to stabilize as the seam sealing is done outside. The last few days we have had rain. The next few days we have very high winds. Hopefully next week we will have a few clear days to seam seal. Once the tent is seam sealed we will email you a tracking code.

Regards,
Cynthia
Tarptent

On Nov 21, 2013, at 6:01 PM, kingsley <> wrote:



Hi Henry can you please advice of my tracking number and sent date

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Nov 2013, at 8:03 am, Henry Shires <orders@tarptent.com> wrote:
We can rebill your card for the difference. You don’t need to do anything.

Seam-sealing takes a few days. It will likely ship about the 19th.

Thanks.

Henry Shires

Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959 USA
ph: 650-587-1548
fax: 801-459-9526
e-mail: info@tarptent.com
web: http://www.tarptent.com

On Nov 15, 2013, at 1:02 PM, kingsley <> wrote:



Fantastic how would you like payment for that? Also when will the tent be shipping I've got about 14 days before my next outing would love to take it ..


Cheers
Kingsley

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Nov 2013, at 4:08 am, Henry Shires <orders@tarptent.com> wrote:
Thanks very much for you order. We will seam-seal ($25) it before shipping.

Henry Shires

Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959 USA
ph: 650-587-1548
fax: 801-459-9526
e-mail: info@tarptent.com
web: http://www.tarptent.com

On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:06 PM, kingsley <> wrote:



Can I please get the tent sealed thanks

Sent from my iPhone



On 15 Nov 2013, at 11:56 am, orders@tarptent.com wrote:

Date: Nov 14, 2013
Order ID: 331995
Paid by Credit Card
Ship Via: Intl Express Mail

Billing Address:
AU

Shipping Address:
AU

Qty Price Item
---------------------------------
1 @ $290.00 153 Double Rainbow (Pole and Breathable Liner Options: Carbon(-2oz)/no liner)


Subtotal: $290.00
CA Sales Tax: $0.00
Shipping: $65.00
Order Total: $355.00

Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959 USA
ph: 650-587-1548
fax: 801-459-9526
e-mail: info@tarptent.com
web: http://www.tarptent.com



Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959
650-587-1548
info@tarptent.com






Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959
650-587-1548
info@tarptent.com

[Kingsleythelost]

One sided comments OMG you make me laugh Franco i have nothing to hide however you clearly didnt want to put the bit about the funds not being released as yet...(and they are still not released) Funny how you left that out.

To me you are the one presenting one sided arguments ive put it out there for the world to see. Again with these sweeping statements which part of it was one sided?

I was happy to let this go but you insist on poking the bear....

[Kingsleythelost]

The customer service shown here by Franco is a testament to both Franco and TarpTents they are clearly too big to deal with one customer who maybe a little annoyed.

The email i posted above is true and not altered the only thing i did was remove my email address and posting address ill let the punters decide if it was bad service....

[wayno]

at the end of the day, its not a case of one side was completely at fault and the other side was free of blame...
you exercised your right to complain and it didnt work out.
i've been pretty hosed off myself over delays in ordering gear in the past. i was promised an item in a week and three weeks later it hadnt arrived and was starting to run out of time for a trip..
but at the end of the day stick with the facts when communicating with people, as hosed off as you might feel. Lesson learned so thats a positive.
it can be deceptive, when you read reviews about outdoor companies, people will give glowing reviews of the product but they may be the most patient people in the world and arent bothered they have to wait months to get the item,,, then you order something and realise you're not dealing with the types of companies you've dealt with before and you're not going to get the same type of service, ie prompt and you realise you're going to run out of time to get the gear....
so this post has brought to light for those who havent been aware, that you are likely to have to wait longer, sometimes a lot longer to get the gear you want from a cottage manufacturer. so another lesson learned...
we've also learned that you may not get the same interaction experience with a cottage company. because the person you're dealing with isnt dedicated to communicating with clients all day.... another lesson learned.
generally people who buy from cottage industry companies are still willing to put up with these issues because they have the patience and time to wait, and they feel that they can get a product from these companies they find hard to get elsewhere,either quality and or customisation of the gear can be better than is produced by larger companies......
so hopefully we are all better informed of potential issues that may arise dealing with cottage industry companies...

[photohiker]

Seeing as you're "putting it out there for the world to see", I can't see your email with the "I plan on splashing that email all around the internet thanks" comment in it, but you're claiming Franco is "you are the one presenting one sided arguments"

Franco is just filling in the gaps. Anyway, it looks like the relationship went of the rails here:

Kingsley

Don't worry ill seal it myself please send the tent as I need it soon

Tarptent

OK. Should we include the seam seal kit?

Kingsley doesn't answer the perfectly reasonable question but sticks the boot in instead

I really cant believe you guys have done that to me. Ive heard great reviews about your products but cant believe the service is this bad,

I paid extra money for prompt delivery also stated I needed the tent by a given date, Was told that it would be shipped and it wasn’t. No one bothered to mention anything too me. You have also effectivly charged me for a tent that has not been sent. I know you only put a hold on the money but it doesn’t leave it in my pocket.

I understand that seaming can be a smelly business but if our running a two bit organization that relys on good weather to get the job done? I know lots of people here in Oz that use your tents im imagining you have a lot of tents sold and sealed maybe its time to invest in an indoor area, what happens if it rains for a month?

Im looking forward to getting the tent but very disappointed in the service im receiving

Tarptent decides this is the type of customer they don't need and sends the 'Dear John' letter

Dear Kingsley,

You were not charged when you ordered—it was as a credit card authorization, not a charge. You did not “pay extra money” because you were never charged.

Seam-sealing is an outdoor process that takes time and we told you that when you requested seam-sealing. When the wind and weather conspire, we are unable to seam-seal.

We reserve the right to not sell to people we deem not well-suited to our products. We have now voided the transaction authorization and canceled your order.

Are there any missing pieces? Was it after this you threatened to splash the email?

[Kingsleythelost]

I cant add the three side emails would you like?

One i said yes post it before i got a response back,,,(without sealing)
two I said that not proud of it but that was after he said screw you im not selling you a tent. Otherwise why would i say that?

Phpto man you are clearly a mate of his and defending him without any facts its how things work around here ive discovered...a little club of mates i guess the $ are good in the industry so keep it tight eye boys

OMG your not going to let this go you and my reply...Considering you were complaining about airing emails in Public

Kingsley wrote

I appreciate the confusion, I missed a couple of things while ordering like seam sealing and dates. I found the ordering a little confusing. Im not used to having to read the entire screen. I normally just hit buy now

It was not idle banter between us as im not a mate I might talk to a friend in such a manner but if a customer asks for dates and even tells you dates it should be taken as such. Once you have mentioned dates and timelines it really should be known by all where each stands. Does that make sense? I do appreciate the confusions though.

I know my reaction was over the top but also feel sometimes we (you and me) work with irate customers and sometimes you just have to go ….What a dick… and get on with it. I don’t feel it was worth cancelling my entire order that id nicely sat there and waited on for 9 days. I woke up in a bad mood (im giving up cigarettes) but not your concern…I definitely was out of line im not defending my actions.

I did feel let down and rather than caning an order like that I would suggest maybe ask me a few questions and get to the bottom of my disgruntlement good customer relations works like that. I would have calmed quick enough in, the sale would have been done. No damage we both get on with our lives. You a bit more money and me a shin y new tent that I wanted.

Anyway best of luck I hear you make good tents guess ill never know,

Cheers
Kingsley


From: Henry Shires [mailto:orders@tarptent.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 2:19 AM
To: kingsley
Cc: <franco@tarptent.com>
Subject: Re: Thank you for your Tarptent order [331995]

Kingsley, due to international bank communications and/or weekend business hours differences between here and there, it sometimes takes a day for the bank to get the word that the transaction is void.

Just so you/we are clear, we explicitly ask all customers to:

“Please use the comments field on the order form to tell us your "need by" date so we can get your order to you on time.

https://www.tarptent.com/ordering.html

There was no such request in the comment field and that field informs about about any urgency. After ordering, you then sent an email requesting seam-sealing to which we responded yes. Then you wrote back and asked "when will the tent be shipping I've got about 14 days before my next outing would love to take it ..?” I read that as a request for timely shipping but not drop-dead urgency and no sense that your future trip plans would be ruined without it. To the extent that we didn’t email you on the 19th to tell you it was raining we apologize. To the extent that you berated and belittled us, we exercised our right to not sell you a tent.

Thanks.

Henry Shires
Tarptent


On Nov 23, 2013, at 5:58 AM, Henry Shires <orders@tarptent.com> wrote:

You were not charged and we voided the authorization yesterday. Attached is your receipt.

<Transaction Receipt.pdf>

On Nov 23, 2013, at 12:47 AM, kingsley <> wrote:

Hey Henry our relationship didn’t start very well but id like it to at least end well can you please return the funds so I may buy a different tent.

Thank you


From: Henry Shires [mailto:orders@tarptent.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 7:41 AM
To: kingsley
Cc: <franco@tarptent.com>
Subject: Re: Thank you for your Tarptent order [331995]

Dear Kingsley,

You were not charged when you ordered—it was as a credit card authorization, not a charge. You did not “pay extra money” because you were never charged.

Seam-sealing is an outdoor process that takes time and we told you that when you requested seam-sealing. When the wind and weather conspire, we are unable to seam-seal.

We reserve the right to not sell to people we deem not well-suited to our products. We have now voided the transaction authorization and canceled your order.

Henry Shires

Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959 USA
ph: 650-587-1548
fax: 801-459-9526
e-mail: info@tarptent.com
web: http://www.tarptent.com

On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:19 PM, kingsley <> wrote:


I really cant believe you guys have done that to me. Ive heard great reviews about your products but cant believe the service is this bad,

I paid extra money for prompt delivery also stated I needed the tent by a given date, Was told that it would be shipped and it wasn’t. No one bothered to mention anything too me. You have also effectivly charged me for a tent that has not been sent. I know you only put a hold on the money but it doesn’t leave it in my pocket.

I understand that seaming can be a smelly business but if our running a two bit organization that relys on good weather to get the job done? I know lots of people here in Oz that use your tents im imagining you have a lot of tents sold and sealed maybe its time to invest in an indoor area, what happens if it rains for a month?

Im looking forward to getting the tent but very disappointed in the service im receiving


From: Orders@tarptent.com [mailto:orders@tarptent.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 7:03 AM
To: kingsley
Subject: Re: Thank you for your Tarptent order [331995]

OK. Should we include the seam seal kit?

On Nov 22, 2013, at 11:54 AM, kingsley <> wrote:



Don't worry ill seal it myself please send the tent as I need it soon

Thx

Sent from my iPhone

On 23 Nov 2013, at 3:31 am, "Orders@tarptent.com" <orders@tarptent.com> wrote:
Hi Kingsley,
We are waiting for our weather to stabilize as the seam sealing is done outside. The last few days we have had rain. The next few days we have very high winds. Hopefully next week we will have a few clear days to seam seal. Once the tent is seam sealed we will email you a tracking code.

Regards,
Cynthia
Tarptent

On Nov 21, 2013, at 6:01 PM, kingsley <> wrote:



Hi Henry can you please advice of my tracking number and sent date

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Nov 2013, at 8:03 am, Henry Shires <orders@tarptent.com> wrote:
We can rebill your card for the difference. You don’t need to do anything.

Seam-sealing takes a few days. It will likely ship about the 19th.

Thanks.

Henry Shires

Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959 USA
ph: 650-587-1548
fax: 801-459-9526
e-mail: info@tarptent.com
web: http://www.tarptent.com

On Nov 15, 2013, at 1:02 PM, kingsley <> wrote:



Fantastic how would you like payment for that? Also when will the tent be shipping I've got about 14 days before my next outing would love to take it ..


Cheers
Kingsley

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Nov 2013, at 4:08 am, Henry Shires <orders@tarptent.com> wrote:
Thanks very much for you order. We will seam-seal ($25) it before shipping.

Henry Shires

Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959 USA
ph: 650-587-1548
fax: 801-459-9526
e-mail: info@tarptent.com
web: http://www.tarptent.com

On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:06 PM, kingsley <> wrote:



Can I please get the tent sealed thanks

Sent from my iPhone



On 15 Nov 2013, at 11:56 am, orders@tarptent.com wrote:

Date: Nov 14, 2013
Order ID: 331995
Paid by Credit Card
Ship Via: Intl Express Mail

Billing Address:
AU

Shipping Address:
AU

Qty Price Item
---------------------------------
1 @ $290.00 153 Double Rainbow (Pole and Breathable Liner Options: Carbon(-2oz)/no liner)


Subtotal: $290.00
CA Sales Tax: $0.00
Shipping: $65.00
Order Total: $355.00

Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959 USA
ph: 650-587-1548
fax: 801-459-9526
e-mail: info@tarptent.com
web: http://www.tarptent.com



Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959
650-587-1548
info@tarptent.com






Tarptent
12213 Koswyn Ct.
Nevada City, CA 95959
650-587-1548
info@tarptent.com

[wayno]

so, lets all get outside for a walk before the weekend is over ....

[photohiker]

so, lets all get outside for a walk before the weekend is over ....

Sounds like a plan!

But I've already done one.

[Kingsleythelost]

I appreciate these comments as they seem even and well balanced. When people like photo hiker pipe in they clearly have other agenda's

at the end of the day, its not a case of one side was completely at fault and the other side was free of blame...
you exercised your right to complain and it didnt work out.
i've been pretty hosed off myself over delays in ordering gear in the past. i was promised an item in a week and three weeks later it hadnt arrived and was starting to run out of time for a trip..
but at the end of the day stick with the facts when communicating with people, as hosed off as you might feel. Lesson learned so thats a positive.
it can be deceptive, when you read reviews about outdoor companies, people will give glowing reviews of the product but they may be the most patient people in the world and arent bothered they have to wait months to get the item,,, then you order something and realise you're not dealing with the types of companies you've dealt with before and you're not going to get the same type of service, ie prompt and you realise you're going to run out of time to get the gear....
so this post has brought to light for those who havent been aware, that you are likely to have to wait longer, sometimes a lot longer to get the gear you want from a cottage manufacturer. so another lesson learned...

generally people who buy from cottage industry companies are still willing to put up with these issues because they have the and time to wait, and they feel that they can get a product from these companies they find hard to get elsewhere,either quality and or customisation of the gear can be better than is produced by larger companies......
so hopefully we are all better informed of potential issues that may arise dealing with cottage industry companies...

[wayno]

well at times people want to look at the detail, and that can be helpful on this forum sometimes, maybe constructive criticism?

[perfectlydark]

The way some people here are treating kingsly is pathetic. Thers apple/fanboys and I guess "cottage industry" fanboys as well. This site has become a circle of old timers complaining and arguing against anyone that doesnt fit their model of perfect bushwalking. Im out this thread has all the condecending attitudes ive noticed creeping in for a while. Dont bother seeking a reply for me im not going to. Sick of the attitudes of a few that seem to think bushwalking is exclusive or something

[perfectlydark]

Theres constructive disagreement, such as wayno and then theres the other comments of nameless members which have no place in a supposed "community"

[Strider]

Can't you [derogatory name removed by moderator] (yes, both of you) sort this out in private?

[photohiker]

I appreciate these comments as they seem even and well balanced. When people like photo hiker pipe in they clearly have other agenda's

I don't have an agenda and I have no association with TarpTent other than having a couple of their tents and being very happy with the tents and the service.

I worked in a customer service intensive business for 30+ years, I've got lots of experience and I'm always interested in identifying where the relationship runs off the rails and why. That's why I laid out the communication as quotes so that the train can be easily read. It's obvious in this case that if you had just answered the seam seal kit question and gone out the back and kicked the cat, the tent would be on it's way.

The only advice I can offer for future communications is that when things are running off the rails and you've typed up your stroppy email, just save it as a draft and come back to it in an hour or so. Chances are you won't send it without major changes.

Readers of this thread will realise if they want to buy a TarpTent they should be polite in their communications with the business. That is a good thing to come out of it, despite the fact that this is normal behaviour for most people.

[stry]

I'm baffled as to how this thread is still getting oxygen.

It's all been said and hopefully some understanding of the positions of both sides has been gained.

Time to let it go

[gordononline]

SeemsTT providing bad service and then TT over-reacting to a legit (albeit raw) complaint about it is acceptable? Not in my world. And people who say that they've had 30+ years in customer service and think this is ok - guess what - it isn't - never has been and never will be. Photohiker - I know nothing about you but if your business treated me like TT did to Kingsley then I would be making others aware of that too. I've managed several businesses and if my staff were as rude to Kingsley as TT were - they would be looking for new jobs. Regardless of cottage or SME or large business - while the customer is not always right - they are important - not trivial. Photohiker needs to get with the real world where businesses don't thrive on that paradigm.

[GPSGuided]

Still going? Indeed it takes two to tangle. Not surprised with the OP throwing terms like "2 bit" and "What a dick" around, basic civility has been lost. There's a price to be paid when using those kind of words. Taking another look at the definition of "2 bit" <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=2%20bit>, if Henry from TarpTents took this definition, he'd certainly be seriously offended. Forget any chance of making up to the customer. They are human too.

[Nuts]

There have been a couple of reports on this, without looking far we see people prepared to call others idiots etc. I don't want to edit anything just yet.. it will take some effort as i'm not really interested in the topic.. it's just a tent..

Meanwhile I would suggest some self-editing as you know is appropriate. If it's too late to make changes then pointing your edits out (in a message) will at least save us some time and patience.

[photohiker]

I've managed several businesses and if my staff were as rude to Kingsley as TT were - they would be looking for new jobs.

I agree with you on this, perhaps not on the immediate termination. If my customer facing staff responded to customer aggro in kind they would be reprimanded (warning) and given further training on how to deal with difficult customers.

We're not talking about that situation here. We are talking about a customer getting abusive at the owner and manager of the business.

[Kingsleythelost]

We're not talking about that situation here. We are talking about a customer getting abusive at the owner and manager of the business.

This is what your talking about no one else

Still going? ... "2 bit" and "What a dick" ....

I did call myself that and if your insulted by 2 bit Toughen up princess

Its funny how the people with closed minds cant keep their mouths closed

[GPSGuided]

I did call myself that and if your insulted by 2 bit Toughen up princess...

I am not but reserve the right to respond as appropriate. But others may be severely offended, especially when communicating with people of a different cultural environment. What we accept as common unoffensive slang here in Oz are often taken quite differently there in the US. If that's not recognized, then it'll explain a large extent of this present problem.

PS. No need to enlarge texts. It's as rude as writing in caps. As in real life, there are basic etiquettes on the net too.