Planning tent purchase

[Suz]

yep i'll defo get extra guy lines. not setting it up this week, weather is horrendo here in Sydders - a tree could come down on it at any minute :O
I'll get those cup hook thingos too
you're trip looked awesome Dan, i'm super jellybags.

[simonm]

Well done Suz. It does look like a great tent.

[Joomy]

Isn't Big Sky the crowd that was taking orders but taking months and months to actually come through with the goods (if at all)?

Yes, but now he doesn't charge your card until the tent is ready to ship and keeps a significant number of popular models in stock. He had problems with his original factory but the new factory seems much more reliable.

I know the OP has made her decision but for what it's worth my next purchase will be a Mirage 2P from Big Sky. I considered a Stratospire 2 but having done a surprising amount of camping recently on non-peggable ground I think the free-standing feature is a big plus for me. Single skin doesn't bother me much, and the 2 minute set up time is appealing too.

Also, I think anyone carrying more than 1.5kg for a tent for 1 person (not necessarily a 1P tent) non-4 season is nuts. There are just so many awesome options that are well under 1500g.

[Suz]

yes, well i suppose if i have a problem with the stratospire i might in due time change to a tt rainbow. that can be set up freestanding and quickly. similar weight too.

[GPSGuided]

yep i'll defo get extra guy lines. not setting it up this week, weather is horrendo here in Sydders - a tree could come down on it at any minute :O

The rain has stopped and you have a 48 hours window to try it out before the next front comes in. Quick!

[Joomy]

yes, well i suppose if i have a problem with the stratospire i might in due time change to a tt rainbow. that can be set up freestanding and quickly. similar weight too.

I'm sure you won't have any issues that can't be overcome. I think the SS is a great design. But I definitely wouldn't rate a Rainbow over a Mirage.

[Frankofl]

I'm also considering a tarptent, probably a Scarp 2 for solo use. As it's for bike touring the weight doesn't matter so much.

I found this fairly distrurbing video of a Moment 1 in wind. Do the Scarp users also have this problem?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG4YeHwcXCY

[Suz]

Hey - No I've never seen a Scarp suffer in the wind - all the youtube videos I watched before buying showed they are pretty solid. You seen this vid? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVIbyVK6IR4 This shows how well it copes in moderate wind in an exposed area. Notice how flappy everything is before fully put up and just as its being taken down - but once it's set, it's solid.

I did nearly buy a Scarp 1 myself. You would certainly have plenty of room in there in a 2 by yourself. Just remember to pick a tent that folds down 'short' enough for bike touring. Talk to RonK about it - he can probably help.

[GPSGuided]

I found this fairly distrurbing video of a Moment 1 in wind. Do the Scarp users also have this problem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG4YeHwcXCY

The ends didn't look to have been pitched with enough tension. And why did the poster turn off comments? Why not let others comment and ask questions?

[Strider]

Pitch any tent side on to the wind in conditions like that and its bound to move and shake a bit. The only problem here is operator failure.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Franco]

I have seen that You Tube clip before.
Not having been there, so not knowing just how well the tent was set up in the first place, (makes a huge difference if the shelter is really nice and taut before hand) it is hard to comment however I will note that the tent did not fail.
As a comparison this is what the Akto (a tent some think is stronger than the Scarp but others disagree...) looks like in strong winds :

and this is the comment from one of those Aktos owner :
"I've found that the Akto can get flappy in really strong winds - see below (photo) - but I have never worried that it won't stand up to whatever hits it."
Note the yes it does flap but does not fail comment.
(relevant if you read a recent post here about the Scarp...)
my take is that the Scarp 1 is stronger in the wind than the Moment but again you need to know how to set it up taut.

Doing the Great Ocean Walk with my wife, on the second day she complained that the pack wasn't comfortable.
I had a look , it was set up incorrectly
Two minutes later the pack felt good . Still the same pack...

[GPSGuided]

my take is that the Scarp 1 is stronger in the wind than the Moment but again you need to know how to set it up taut...

I think that stands to reason just given the difference in the number of guy lines and the geometric design b/n the two models. They are all good tents along a spectrum of stronger and stronger tents. Need to watch b/n the frames in those Youtube clips or its easy to swallow garbage.

[rucksack]

I have the same model Tarptent Moment as shown in the Youtube clip. I have been using it for the past 4 years, in all seasons including during winter in Tasmania and in tropical storms in North Asia. Does it flap? Not much, especially if it is staked out tautly (as Franco says), but yes, it flaps in strong winds; it's a single pole tent with largish panels. Have I had it in really strong winds? Yes. Very. Did it flap? Yes. Any damage? Nil. Ditto for my Hilleberg Nallo 2, which I have been using for the past 6 years. I have used the Nallo 2 in some very, very windy conditions, including three memorable nights on the Wilmot Range one summer past when the wind was shrieking and carrying on without respite for three days and two nights. Did the tent flap? Yes. A lot actually. Any damage? None. Tents flap. Even well staked out tents flap in strong winds. Large fabric panels tend to do that. I look at the Youtube video in question and think, well, he is camped out in the open with no protection in a strongish wind and he is surprised that his tent flaps. He should get out more. One of the 'tricks' in using a lightweight single traverse arch pole 3-seasons shelter such as the Moment, (and Franco has mentioned this in the past and it definitely works), is to dig a small hole beneath either end of the centre arch pole, so dropping the outer down closer to the ground. It can be done at the ends too. It helps. The outer will still be effected by the wind, of course, but it can deter driving wind and rain (and snow) from blowing straight through the mesh inner. It doesn't stop it entirely and it doesn't make it a 4-seasons tent, but then it isn't. GPSGuided is right. There is a 'phylogenetic scale of tents', so to speak, and heavy duty arctic shelters and small single poled 3-seasons shelters with mesh inners do not sit very close together on the scale. But they all flap, just some more than others.

rucksack

[DanShell]

One of the 'tricks' in using a lightweight single traverse arch pole 3-seasons shelter such as the Moment, (and Franco has mentioned this in the past and it definitely works), is to dig a small hole beneath either end of the centre arch pole, so dropping the outer down closer to the ground. It can be done at the ends too. It helps. The outer will still be effected by the wind, of course, but it can deter driving wind and rain (and snow) from blowing straight through the mesh inner. It doesn't stop it entirely and it doesn't make it a 4-seasons tent, but then it isn't.

rucksack

I have done the same thing with my Stratospire to get the outer down closer to the ground.

The wind wasn't flapping my outer around too bad but it was getting in under the outer and the inner was flapping around something terrible, so I had to lessen the air gap under the outer!

[GPSGuided]

Given the design of Moment, I am wondering if anyone has modified their and added additional stake points, especially at the base of the 4 side panels ie. mid-point b/n the arch pole and end of the tent? Suspect it'll stabilise the Moment considerably in those severe conditions.

[rucksack]

I have seen a photo of someone who has added exactly those additional loops mid way along the bottom edges of the 4 large panels of their Moment so as to facilitate 4 additional pegs. I cannot remember where I came across that. Might have been a while ago. Franco may know more.

rucksack

[simonm]

I think this link shows the mod you are talking about. It would certainly be simple to do.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=98326

[GPSGuided]

Thanks Simon and exactly what I was thinking about. A pretty obvious improvement solution. Guess the point with the Moment is that it really needs its two end anchor stakes to be solid and it'd be easy for them to work loose if not specifically addressed. To me, one stake in each end is really the key 'weakness' in the design. Yet, that's also where the convenience of the design comes in.

[Franco]

"To me, one stake in each end is really the key 'weakness' in the design. Yet, that's also where the convenience of the design comes in."
Yes, streamlining the design and going for a two peg supported shelter does have some limits (one reason for still having the Scarp in the line up) however on a positive note, now that Hilleberg have adopted the same design it may turn out to be a desirable feature...

[simonm]

Franco what are your thoughts on the extra peg modifications as detailed above?

[rucksack]

Thanks Simon. Yes, that's the link.

rucksack

[Franco]

From Simonm :
"Franco what are your thoughts on the extra peg modifications as detailed above?"

The extra tie-out points at the bottom of the panels can help, the inside pole bit I found to be feedly and sort of working against the design.
(I was the first to do that mod with the Scarp but gave up because of the above reason)
The trick with tents in the wind is to avoid (well minimise) fretting, just like you would with a sail.
Often it isn't strong wind pressure that will cause the problem but repeated wobbling that loosen the pegs and shred the fabric.
That is why I keep mentioning setting up the tent taut in the first place.
The hardest thing of course is to set up a tent when already windy.

[simonm]

Thanks Franco. I might do that extra tie out mod to mine, in the off chance I get to go for an over-nighter one day soon .

[GPSGuided]

Thanks Franco. I might do that extra tie out mod to mine, in the off chance I get to go for an over-nighter one day soon .

How would you design that? Punch a hole in the fabric? Sew a reinforced loop with narrow webbing? Or a loop for guyline tie out?

[simonm]

Thanks Franco. I might do that extra tie out mod to mine, in the off chance I get to go for an over-nighter one day soon .

How would you design that? Punch a hole in the fabric? Sew a reinforced loop with narrow webbing? Or a loop for guyline tie out?

Not sure just yet as I haven't looked at it, but I will probably just sew on a loop of 13mm grosgrain.