What stove do you use?

[John Sheridan]

I just boiled 2 cups of water in 3 minutes with 25 grams of Alcohol, my homemade stove and stand with my Optimus Crux Weekend HE pot, I mean it's turbo charged boiling

It's just a normal coke can stove, nothing special.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7MqBjeOlPU

The best I could do before was about 6 minutes with a trangia mini pot stand, the pot stand is just made of coathanger and the same height as the trangia one, but for some reason it's turbo charged ?????

Maybe the coathanger stand provides more air to the stove !!!!!


Either way I am experimenting some more.


Cheers.

[hikin_jim]

There are a couple of ways that you can "tune" an alcohol stove: speed or low fuel use. Looks like yours is built for speed. The Trangia burner, in my experience, is built a bit more for minimizing fuel consumption.

HJ

[John Sheridan]

Please do tell us these ways

Will put the Trangia in the pot stand and see what happens, might be worth the weight of the Trangia if the fuel consumption is good, I can really wait 6 minutes for two cups to boil, rather save the fuel.


Cheers.

[hikin_jim]

Please do tell us these ways

Will put the Trangia in the pot stand and see what happens, might be worth the weight of the Trangia if the fuel consumption is good, I can really wait 6 minutes for two cups to boil, rather save the fuel.


Cheers.

John,

Getting a stove to do more with less is not an easy thing that there are some simple instructions for. I've been experimenting with alcohol stoves for a couple of years now. I've abandoned side burner stoves and I've abandoned stoves that require priming (pre-heating). The path to efficiency doesn't seem to lie along those lines.

What does seem to be efficient is a stove with a smaller air opening than a standard open coke can type stove. I've had some good results with using a smaller can, about 225ml, but using designs similar to standard full sized (355ml) coke type cans. If you take a look at the below photo, the smaller, taller coke can type stove closest to the brass Trangia burner is the most promising design I've found.


HJ

[John Sheridan]

I see you have not made any mini stoves using deodorant bottles or similar sizes, I have made plenty of coke can stoves, but they are too big for my current pot with the heat exchanger on the bottom, well they work , but not as good as a smaller one where the flame stays underneath all the time. I want to make a double walled deoderant stove with the deoderant bottles have been saving them, but need to get a pipe cutter to cut them properly and not &@&@& them up, I have a limited bottle supply, i need to be more stinky

Also have you made any wick stoves I have read that they can boil 2 cups of water with 15 grams or so fuel, might take 6 minutes or so, but that's ok with me.

If I boil 6 cups of water a day for 10 days straight that's only 450 grams of fuel if it was 25 grams that's 750grams

[hikin_jim]

I've experimented with 222ml drink cans (regular Coke cans are 355ml) but nothing smaller. The smaller cans do work better than regular cans, but that's not the real issue when it comes to efficiency. It seems that the width of the opening has more to do with efficiency than the width of the container. For example, the Trangia burner while heavy turns out to be a pretty good burner. It's quite wide, but its opening is considerably smaller than its width.

Take a look at this photo:

The two stoves in the back row are the proven 12-10 stove from Trail Designs. Note how the opening is smaller than the width of the cans. Now, take a look at the third stove from the left in the front row. Note how it too has an opening smaller than its width.

Here's a photo of such stoves being tested:

All of the cans are standard sized, 355ml, aluminum drink cans. Note the relative flame sizes.

The stove in the back row, farthest on the left is a fully open style where the width of the opening is equal to the width of the inner wall. Note that it has a large, inefficient flame. The two stoves in the back row to the right have an opening smaller than the width of the inner wall. These two stoves are very tall stoves. Note that they have very efficient but very small blue flames. Lastly, note the two stoves in the front row. Their opening is smaller than the width of the inner wall. These two stoves are much shorter than the stoves in the back row. These stoves have mid sized but reasonably efficient flames. Just for ease of reference, an open type burner with an opening smaller than its width is called a "partially occluded open burner". Probably a little "anal" to call it that, but that was the best name I could come up with for that type of burner.

Contrast the flames in the above photo with the ones in this photo:

The stoves on the upper right are made from smaller (222ml) drink cans, but note how they have large, bright yellow, inefficient flames.

There are two things we can draw out of these tests:
1. The width of the opening is more important than the width of the container itself.
2. The height of the stove has an impact on the efficiency of the burn. Taller stoves are more efficient; shorter stoves are less efficient.

One couldn't tell this just based on the photos, but it turns out the tall stoves are very difficult to light. Once lit, they burn well and are quite efficient, but because of the difficulty of lighting I consider them impractical for field use. The shorter stoves with about the same width opening were much easier to light which gave me a third finding from this round of tests:
3. The height of the burner should be roughly equal to the width of the opening. Taller stoves are efficient but are a royal PITA to light. Shorter stoves burn too hot.

I haven't experimented with wick stoves. Perhaps some day. So many stoves, so little time.

HJ

[Lady McGuyver]

I carry an MSR Reactor
Such a huge range of stoves people are using, testing and enjoying. . . but it seems no-one is using the Reactor. . ( or no ones admitting it!!! )
I’ve used one for a few years now and I can’t fault it. Its reliable, super-fast (which is good for my dehydrated tucker – just heat & absorb method) It packs up into itself, is way lighter than my Trangia and the space gained in my pack is also noice!!
It’s a great asset on winter trips or in really rotten weather when you need something warm & nourishing right now.

I guess the only negative I could suggest with this stove is if it malfunctioned field repairs are impossible, being a closed unit. . . leaving me eating a cold dinner

Cheers Cyn

[hikin_jim]

I think of the Reactor as a little heavy, but I suppose compared to a full Trangia set up (especially a #25 Trangia) that the Reactor is not so bad. The Reactor is about the most windproof stove out there though. I certainly can't think of another gassie I'd rather have in wind (well, may a Trangia with a gas set up, but even then). The Reactor is just the absolute bomb for snow melting. Very little else can crank out that kind of heat. I've used my Reactor in mild winter conditions (down to about -5C), and it's been wonderful.

HJ

[bushwalker zane]

I use the Optimus Crux with the Optimus heat exchange weekender pot set. Light, compact, fast. I like it, but I do miss the romance of a quiet burning Trangia...

[Aushiker]

Have had a bit of play now with the Trail Designs Sidewinder Ti-Tri and pretty happy with the way it performed. My average fuel usage was 68 ml per day and I found I could easily boil 300 ml on 15 ml and 600 ml on 20 ml. All up pretty happy with the beast.



Andrew

[icemancometh]

MSR Reactor for when it counts, ie winter. Don't be fooled, this is much better than the Jetboil, which I owned before this
Could be improved but the best out there right now I reckon. Not the lightest but definitely the most reliable. Though one trip we had a prob lighting it in stronger winds.
Cyn, you ever tried the Reactor 2.5L pot?

Otherwise, any cheap light stove is sufficient. Gas, none of liquid fuel stuff

The Windpro is good so you can windshield and invert the canister

Last edited by icemancometh on Wed 28 Dec, 2011 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[rucksack]

Steady on with the language there icemancometh.

And what Trangia are you referring to? The alcohol burner, or the Primus gas burner, or the Nova multifuel, or the Primus Multifuel X2, or perhaps the KAP Arctic, or one of a multitude of burners which have been successfully inserted into the Trangia windshield and pots over the years, and been up and down most of the world's tallest peaks and remotest regions. The Trangia has been around for a long time and it is definitely not ... what is the word you used?

We do appreciate a bit of civility on this site; that and the odd intelligent comment. By all means criticise something and say plainly what you like and do not like, but careful with the language. OK?

rucksack

[icemancometh]

edited my post rucksack

what I don't like re fuel stoves-size, weight, bulk, ease of stuffing it up, probs with fuel, time

[rucksack]

No problems icemancometh .. and welcome to the site.

I agree about the bulk and weight and so on. I have a lot of stoves, but I do use a Trangia base and windshield and the pots & kettle up high (really high & cold) when fellow climbers are klomping around setting up camp and trying to cook. Less chance of my dinner going belly up and in really low temperatures (as in -40ºC up near the Russian border), dinner actually gets cooked, (using my Primus Multifuel X2 burner running on kerosene). So, it's really a case of horses for courses for me. Walking in Tasmania, I use something a lot smaller and lot lighter, but up high, with other walkers, that bulk doesn't phase me. In fact, I look upon it as 'protection', both from the weather and from fellow climbers, if you get my drift. And, I'm cooking for more than one person, of course, so those larger pots come in handy.

rucksack

Last edited by rucksack on Wed 28 Dec, 2011 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Lady McGuyver]

Icemancometh, I'd love one of the 2.5l pots, but can't find one anywhere, they mustn't be available in Aus. . . I like the idea of the wider base (for frying etc) and being able to quickly heat more water in one go.
I too, have found it a bugger to light if its windy, once it's lit it's great tho. And sometimes its hard to see if it's ignited, as it doesn't always glow up straight away, or change in sound. But I do like my Reactor!

[icemancometh]

Icemancometh,
I too, have found it a bugger to light if its windy, once it's lit it's great tho. And sometimes its hard to see if it's ignited, as it doesn't always glow up straight away, or change in sound. But I do like my Reactor!

I do think we were going with a flint at the time too which didn't help

I think the bigger pot is justifiable if lots of snow melting is called for or for larger groups. Don't use the Reactor when more than 2.

[Strider]

Trangia 27 Duossal. Works for me

[corvus]

For stability ,cooking for more than one in cold wet windy conditions down to the "minuses" (not -40 rucksac ) I still think my old Trangia 25 basic aluminium set including kettle teamed up with my Optimus Explorer 11 multifuel stove is perfect however you will need to distribute the 1775gm weight amongst your fellow walkers

Having said that I now personally use a FMS 100-T gas burner and various Ti pots with or without a windshield and have cooked/reconstituted meals in cold /freezing and warm conditions with excellent results (I am a modestly good cook ) but the Trangia system is still IMHO a very stable and safe shared cooking system especially for those starting out .
corvus

[rucksack]

It's only showing -22ºC 'up there' at the moment Corvus .. positively Spring-like, I'm sure!

Your Optimus 11 Explorer has a silent cap, doesn't it? I have seen that teamed up with a Trangia 25 before and it's looked to be a good fit for a winter stove. It would be a very decent combination in the cold, when cooking for more than one, but I agree - share the weight!

I was in one of the better mountaineering stores up here last week and they had what looked to be the entire Fire Maple range on display, bar two, I think: the FMS-107 and FMS-108. They had your FMS-100T, of course, (that's proved to be quite popular up here), plus its stainless steel brother, the FMS-100, (much cheaper, of course, but heavier), plus it's liquid fuel relative, the FMS-F2. I nearly weakened on the latter, but 8 stoves is 8 stoves and all mine are 'users', although I do have my favourites. Mrs rucksack was about, and I had just acquired a new Black Diamond Mission 50 ice climbing pack a few days earlier, so I didn't exactly want to test fate, merely for the sake of a 9th stove. I'm sure you get my drift.

rucksack

[hikingoz]

I just ebayed a FMS 104 for $35. I've got a minotauk gnat which is a rebranded FMS 116t and it's been brilliant. I decided to give a remote canister stove a try for cold weather. If I like it I might buy something similar in titanium.

I'm considering options for making the cannister slightly warmer in cold conditions. A cannister cosy or something like that perhaps.

[corvus]

It's only showing -22ºC 'up there' at the moment Corvus .. positively Spring-like, I'm sure!

Your Optimus 11 Explorer has a silent cap, doesn't it? I have seen that teamed up with a Trangia 25 before and it's looked to be a good fit for a winter stove. It would be a very decent combination in the cold, when cooking for more than one, but I agree - share the weight!

I was in one of the better mountaineering stores up here last week and they had what looked to be the entire Fire Maple range on display, bar two, I think: the FMS-107 and FMS-108. They had your FMS-100T, of course, (that's proved to be quite popular up here), plus its stainless steel brother, the FMS-100, (much cheaper, of course, but heavier), plus it's liquid fuel relative, the FMS-F2. I nearly weakened on the latter, but 8 stoves is 8 stoves and all mine are 'users', although I do have my favourites. Mrs rucksack was about, and I had just acquired a new Black Diamond Mission 50 ice climbing pack a few days earlier, so I didn't exactly want to test fate, merely for the sake of a 9th stove. I'm sure you get my drift.

rucksack

Only eight stoves and you call yourself a ????

Dragged out the Optimus 11 /Trangia 25 combination (thanks to you)and what a performance to set it up get it going what with Metho priming ,pumping and pumping (been in storage too long ) Mr fix it son will rectify any faults however it was interesting to connect the cheap Gas converter unit for Trangia from 20+ years ago for it to fire up first spark
corvus

[icemancometh]

why this love of Trangias among the folk on here?

I'd go a MSR XGK, which is my cold wx stove for longer trips esp with multiple people and lot of snow melting.

Other stoves in the box are the Windpro and the little Ti stove from Kathmandu. Light and cheap, took that on the Overland with a 120g 700ml? Ti pot too.

Most of my walking buddies use the Whisperlite/Dragonfly or the Kovea's (the Moonwalker was alright but who has an igniter on the stove when it's designed to be windshielded!! Poor design there!). Only two friends use the Trangias. One because of his missus and the other cos he likes to carry stuff...90L+ packs

[Rob A]

I dont know how many people walk all day without having a cuppa on the trail. But getting something hot into you, you dont want to be messing around.
At the moment using MSR pocket rocket on a normal gas can which all fits in a small single pot and cup lid along with coffee tea instant soup milk powder small bottle milk.
Everythings together, and packed at the top, which is handy when someone is struggling. Just use that at camp too but dig out plates and cutlery food parcels.

Tried the soda can thing, made little works of art experimented with straight, tapered in and out cones, hole patterns, fibreglass wicking. In the end they were great fun but just a liability.

[icemancometh]

Icemancometh,
I too, have found it a bugger to light if its windy, once it's lit it's great tho. And sometimes its hard to see if it's ignited, as it doesn't always glow up straight away, or change in sound. But I do like my Reactor!

I do think we were going with a flint at the time too which didn't help

I think the bigger pot is justifiable if lots of snow melting is called for or for larger groups. Don't use the Reactor when more than 2.

There is also the MSR windpro + Quick Pot 1.3L = 192g + 212g = 404g...lighter than the Reactor...+ windshield 56g = 460g
Still lighter than the Reactor and you can invert the canister, just have it on a low setting before trying it.
This was my setup before the Reactor and gives you the benefit of being able to cook (ie not just burn)

There is also the bigger pot which comes as part of the 2 pot set which makes it lighter and cheaper than the Reactor 'set'

Be interesting to see the performance comparison in the cold/at altitude...will have to take it to NZ and do a test.




This is a much better stove than the Kovea equivalent at the time as the latter had a piezo on the stove so when you windshielded it you got a melted lump of plastic and a bad smell.

And I don't think I've ever had a hot cuppa on the trail. Save that for camp.

[rucksack]

icemancometh, I am curious about your piezo comments. I have three stoves with piezo ignition and always use windshields (with all three), but have never had this 'melting' issue that you speak about. Perhaps, you can enlarge your comments. And, as to Triangia, well, they would have to be the most widely sold and successful outdoor stove design about, judging by their longevity, (i.e. the first Trangia set ups were released 60 years ago), and their ubiquitous presence. Remember, there are at least three 'permutations': their alcohol stove, their gas stove using canisters, and their liquid fuel option. The Trangia's only 'competition' on the longevity front would probably be the SVEA 123/123R, which was released in 1955 and is still going. I cannot think of another. I am assuming that you are primarily referring to the weight (and perhaps bulk) of the Trangia sets, but some really don't care about that. I have all three stove options with my Trangia 25 and I almost always take the Trangia when I am winter camping with more than two people. The weight numbers then add up, the set up is very user friendly, and I can cook for everyone at the same time - very social, if you are into that sort of thing.

rucksack

p.s. As to a 'hot cuppa on the trail' .. well, it is common enough in my experience. I do it sometimes, if the weather is poor and the going a little tough, especially in a group where one or two are finding it testing, or cold, or both. I often see stoves whipped out for a lunch time brew. In fact, last week on the MacLehose Trail in Hong Kong, I set up my Kovea Titanium when I stopped for lunch beside a very windy and cold Ma On Shan, and enjoyed a very nice cup of Oolong tea. Didn't manage to melt the piezo either and I was using a windscreen!

Last edited by rucksack on Thu 26 Jan, 2012 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[icemancometh]

It was right on the leg if I remember correctly? It was a while ago now and in fact the Kovea was my only piezo stove that I used for any length of time.

I was actually only testing it with the windshield and doing boil time tests when I noticed a bad smell. Turned it off and hey presto, no more piezo,,,the plastic had melted and would no longer work.

That's the extent of my experience with destroying piezos. I have heard of others failing in the field so on balance I would prefer to carry a lighter/flint. Perhaps you're just more skilled with a windshield than me.

[rucksack]

Not so much skilled icemancometh as nervous. I try to keep a decent distance between my pot and windshield when I am using a canister top stove, or even my SVEA 123R, for that matter, so as to keep the temperature of the fuel within safe limits. Perhaps, the piezo's on my gas stoves have survived through timidity.

rucksack

[icemancometh]

The Kovea was a copy of the WindPro ie remote canister but the piezo was located on the stove end and inside the windshield. That to me is not the smartest design.

[gmrza]

The Kovea was a copy of the WindPro ie remote canister but the piezo was located on the stove end and inside the windshield. That to me is not the smartest design.

That is one of the reasons I prefer the fact that Kovea is supplying a separate piezo with the Camp 5. If you don't want to use the piezo, you can pack matches or a flint. If it breaks, you can toss it.

20120118-IMG_8127.jpg (92.21 KiB) Viewed 12122 times

It also works nicely with an inverted canister - shown here with a butane can:

Warning: the image above was shot under studio conditions, and serves to represent that inverting a long butane can is technically feasible. Any air movement or uneven surface is likely to see that setup falling over! I should add that running a remote canister stove with this kind of adapter for long butane cans is risky as well, as it is essential, when you want to operate in vapour feed mode to ensure that the notch on the can is facing upwards. Even a stove with a generator tube can dramatically increase its output when going into liquid feed mode.

Last edited by gmrza on Fri 27 Jan, 2012 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

[corvus]

The Kovea was a copy of the WindPro ie remote canister but the piezo was located on the stove end and inside the windshield. That to me is not the smartest design.

That is one of the reasons I prefer the fact that Kovea is supplying a separate piezo with the Camp 5. If you don't want to use the piezo, you can pack matches or a flint. If it breaks, you can toss it.

20120118-IMG_8127.jpg

It also works nicely with an inverted canister - shown here with a butane can:

20120121-IMG_9562.jpg

With respect gmrza that can inversion is anything but safe unless it is fully stabilized so perhaps a warning as such or deletion of that pic would be appropriate .
corvus