Jetboil disaster in snow

[geoffmallo]

We took the Jetboil PCS up Mt Twynam on our last trip to the snow. It was supposed to be our main stove for melting etc. We found that it was very unreliable. We had a lot of problems lighting it and then it was inefficient. I've posted more details at http://mycampgear.com/2008/08/25/jet-bo ... eld-review

Have any of you had an experience similar to ours with this stove? Have we just got a dud?

As it turned out my new MSR Reactor turned up the day we got home! So I'll have some field tests with it soon.

[NickD]

Other than the new MSR Reactor which I haven't tried but have only heard about - all propane gas units became fairly hopeless or at least loose their efficiency in extreme conditions.

[alliecat]

For any canister stove to work in cold conditions it needs a pre-heat tube (or similar mechanism) to provide thermal feedback to the fuel feed line. The jetboil does not have a pre-heat tube, so it is always going to be unreliable in the cold.

I don't think the MSR Reactor has a pre-heat tube either, so I wouldn't expect it to perform any better in the cold.

If you are going to use a canister stove in the snow, you really need to look for one specifically designed for cold conditions.

[norts]

I was in snow 2 weekends ago, I camped on it, approximately 6 inches deep where we camped. I had no problems with my Kovea canister stove. Just keep the canister out of very cold spots over night. My boots,laces(I could bend them like wire) water bottleall froze and were all in the vestibule. I was using my canister sitting directly on the snow(ice actually). I do use a wind shield. I had no problems. I did put my cannister inside my sleeping bag for a few minutes before lighting the stove.
My canister was a normal 80/20 mix.

Roger

[tim]

I have used Jetboil PCSs in the snow, and not had anyreal issues with them. They are still just about the quickest boiling mainstream stove about unless you happen to be at altitude, in which case you will need to switch to an MSR style liquid-fuel stove. If you buy the correct jetboil or MSR branded gas canisters (which have a pure blend of iso-propance and butane from memory; correct me if I am wrong) you will struggle to freeze them in Australian (alps) conditions, and won't have a hope in hell in freezing them in Tassie.

We did find that the self-ignition is rubbish when wet though, it probably shorts out. No biggy, take matches (lighters are also rubbish in the wet). The self-lighter starts working again after a bit of burn-time.

Cheers

[mag3000]

Having just came back from a week in the snow ay Cradle and Ben Lomond I can say that I doubt I will use my Whisperlite much anymore. The Jetboil performed flawlessly, no problems at all.

My take on the jetboil, as opposed to other cannister stoves, is that the jetboil only uses half the gas, so the flow rate of the gas does not need to be very high, when it gets cold the gas flowrate drops, but not below the rate required for the Jetboil.

I perticularly like that you pack it with snow and walk away. Once packed it melts down to the recommended fill line. I didn't do any timing but it seemed quicker that the Whisperlite. Although the whisperlite can melt more at once because of the 2L pot I use.

I have used other gas stoves with little success in the cold (Pocket Rocket, Kovea Titanium etc)

[alex]

Close tim,
the msr etc. cannisters are a blend of propane and isobutane. From memory the boiling/vapourising point of iso butane vs butane is ~ -10 vs ~ -1. This could make a big difference to performance in the cold, and other than choice of canister then everything already mentioned helps, basically keep the cannister warm if you have no liquid feed preheat tube in your gas stove (rare).

I have read an article on Roger Caffin's bushwalking FAQ about stove performance which went into the gas/cold problems and it was very useful (sorry no link)

Not trying to get into the whole lightweight/heavy or gas/ liquid fuel debate, but this is why i always carry the extra weight of an msr liquid fuel stove... no problems yet in any weather. use a windshield safely and easily, liquid feed so not affected by cold temps... reliable so far in every sort of tassie weather.
alex

[DaveNoble]

I have virtually only used gas canister type stoves in snow conditions. I have had no real problems with them. The stoves have been primus (screw on cylinders), Gaz (punctured cylinders) and more recently some very small compact Coleman stoves - that screw on the cylinders, the latest of these is very compact and light weight indeed. They have been mainly used ski touring in the NSW alps and in temperatures down to -23 C. They do work better with the propane/butane mix cylinders. Except when staying in a hut - I always use them inside a tent - and place the stove on some type of insulation - a plastic plate or a bit of sleeping mat - and i seal up the annex to stop drafts. No real problems - even when melting snow (and the type of snow where a big billy of snow packed down only results in a cm or two of water....)

Roger Caffin's faq is well worth reading. The best stoves for really cold conditions seem to be the gas ones with inverted cylinders.

Dave

[Nuts]

..

[tim]

This just reminded me of the new remote canister set-up available from JetBoil:

http://www.jetboil.com/Products/Cooking-Systems/Helios

Doesn't look like it is available (but maybe compatible) with the PCS mug, just the 2L pot. Good idea, but.

[Tony]

Any upright canister stove will struggle in the cold but there are ways to get around the problem, as mentioned in previous posts roger Caffin's FAQ site has lots of good information on stoves and fuel mixtures, it is worth a read.

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_StovesTech.htm

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Mixtures.htm


This is a liquid feed conversion that I did last year, I had it working in about -8ºC and it worked really well, If you are handy I can send some pictures on how it is done.


This is one of the stoves that I took in to the Alps last weekend it is a Coleman Xtreme (not made anymore) it worked in -16ºC, the Coleman max canister gas mix is 40% propane and 60% iso-butane. I modified the pot stand to fit the JetBoil GCS pot, this stove pot system was the fastest that I have used to melt snow.

Tony

[rcaffin]

Yep, any upright gas stove is going to have problems in the snow, and the colder it gets the bigger the problems.
Inverted canister stoves are definitely the message. The Xtreme is the gold standard imho, but the Fyrestorm is also good, and uses the more readily available screw-thread canisters.

It is interesting that the stove manufacturers are starting to wake up to the market demand for reliable winter canister stoves. The range of useful ones is growing. Note that there are some inexpensive Kovea ones which work well too.

The Jetboil PCS and GSC are going to give problems. The Jetboil Helios looks interesting, but rather heavy.

Added later:
The Jetboil Helios is almost identical to the Primus EtaPower. I am sure the burner itself was made by Primus - they have made all the other Jetboil stoves too. The CO emission is LOW, and the heating rate can be good. It is just slightly lighter than the EtaPower. Yes, both Helios and EtaPower are good winter snow stoves.

Cheers
Roger Caffin