Bushwalk Australia

Now the kids have reached the age where they can carry their own gear I'm in the process of updating my overnight gear, the oldest of which is 20 years old. I need to replace my stove which is an MSR Whisperlite as it has developed a leak in the fuel line and doesn't seem serviceable. After reading the posts on here I was tending towards a canister style stove for safety this time around. The MSR Wind Pro 2 and MSR Universal I read about on this forum seem to fit the bill (I also considered the Fire Maple FMS 100T some posters recommended) however they don't seem to have reached our shores yet. I have a few questions I would love some help with:

- Is anyone aware of stockists in Australia who currently have these stoves?
- If not, I assume posters on here have acquired theirs from OS (but not the US due to the exclusivity provisions imposed by the manufacturers)?
- If it isn't possible to actually see one in the flesh, the only qualm I have with the Universal is the apparent rigidity of the fuel line. Have people found this a hassle to stow in their packs/cook gear?
Thanks

Fire Maple is a Chinese manufacturer who has improved their quality to a point where they are oem for several prestigious brands as is Kovea in Korea.
For instance the Kathmandu Backpacker stove titanium is the Fire Maple 116T and I suspect some of the Optimus stoves - the Crux for example.

To buy at a sensible price just go on eBay and type in FMS-100T if that is the model you want. There are currently 3 sellers at a bit under $100.

Mark F wrote:For instance the Kathmandu Backpacker stove titanium is the Fire Maple 116T and I suspect some of the Optimus stoves - the Crux for example.

The Crux is made in Sweden. Though the FMS-116T is known under a wide variety of guises. I have one and the quality is superb.

I did think about the 116T, and also the 118 after reading about it on here (one poster had done an impressive 117/118 hybrid) however my concern with this type of stove is stability - also putting in a windshield makes it potentially at risk of overheating. If it was for myself it wouldn't be an issue however with young teenage kids I can see a stove that sits on top of a canister as a recipe for disaster. That's why I am favouring the fuel lead type canister stoves as they sit lower and have wider bases because of the legs. I suppose I had a prejudice for MSR for it's legal compliance and safety record as well.

Mano wrote:I did think about the 116T, and also the 118 after reading about it on here (one poster had done an impressive 117/118 hybrid) however my concern with this type of stove is stability - also putting in a windshield makes it potentially at risk of overheating. If it was for myself it wouldn't be an issue however with young teenage kids I can see a stove that sits on top of a canister as a recipe for disaster. That's why I am favouring the fuel lead type canister stoves as they sit lower and have wider bases because of the legs. I suppose I had a prejudice for MSR for it's legal compliance and safety record as well.

A canister top stove also won't be much use to you in cold weather.

All stoves sold in Australia are required to be legally compliant.

Thanks. That's why I think the MSR Universal seems so good. If it's warm use a canister up the right way. If it's down to zero use the canister upside down. When snow camping use whitefuel. With regard to legal compliance I don't seem to be able to buy some of the stoves I want in this jurisdiction eg. Fire Maple. Such stoves will have to be bought on the internet. I'm not so concerned about MSR as they have been developed in the most litigious juridiction in the whole world so even if I buy it via Xfanistan I know it is safe product.

Mano wrote:With regard to legal compliance I don't seem to be able to buy some of the stoves I want in this jurisdiction eg. Fire Maple.

As mentioned previously, Fire Maple stoves are sold under other brands (e.g. Kathmandu, Macpac) locally. So they are definitely compliant in Australia.

Thanks Strider. I haven't been able to find a rebranded Fire Maple stove that has the feeder fuel line and ability to be used inverted. Kathmandu and Macpac have the above canister fitting I understand. I want to avoid these as I think they are potentially less safe for use around kids.

I've got both the msr universal and the wind pro 2. Both sourced online from the us with out using a forwarding company, by using ebay and amazon
I started with the universal first, Its fuel line is quite stiff when compared to the wind pro. The universal needs a 2 litre msr pot to fit inside and the wind pro fits In a 1.3 litter pot. If you don't need a liquid fuel stove Id recommend the the wind pro. Cheaper, half the weight and easier to pack. With the right canister gas, running the stove in inverted mode in temperatures as low as -18 c is possible.

Thanks Maverick. I must say now MSR have made the Wind Pro capable of inversion it's a pretty compelling choice. That stand looks nifty too.

maverick wrote:I've got both the msr universal and the wind pro 2. Both sourced online from the us with out using a forwarding company, by using ebay and amazon
I started with the universal first, Its fuel line is quite stiff when compared to the wind pro. The universal needs a 2 litre msr pot to fit inside and the wind pro fits In a 1.3 litter pot. If you don't need a liquid fuel stove Id recommend the the wind pro. Cheaper, half the weight and easier to pack. With the right canister gas, running the stove in inverted mode in temperatures as low as -18 c is possible.

I have been able to buy MSR gear through amazon without a freight forwarder too. I wonder how long that loophole exist before its stopped!

Hi

Cascade Design, the company behind MSR seems to be tipped off rapidly by the Australian Distributor very quickly after posts such as the ones above.

Very few, if any, big online stores will ship an increasing array of products to Australia. I normally place a biggish order with Campsaver but just about anything I wanted they could not ship. Pity as they like nearly all of the USA mail order houses are good to deal with.

For better of worst when I get a can not ship items I then send them an email asking them to push back. So far no success but if enough people did this then maybe the likes of Cascade Designs, Black Diamond will relent. My big issue is limited sizing imported into Australia. I understand why but then why stop me sourcing it direct from the USA?

Cheers

Ent, it's frustrating I know, I own a bucketload of BD gear but freight forwarders do solve it for little cost.
And with some of them you can have multiple parcels bundled.
The US mail order places are fantastic to deal with and are highly sympathetic to the freight forwarding concept.

No criticism of etreangere but I thought the same thing about shutting things down. The frustrating thing is I want to buy an MSR product and I CANT. The distributer system seems to be wrong. If I get some time I might check if the distributers' contracts are in breach of Australia's trade practices laws.

Mano wrote:No criticism of etreangere but I thought the same thing about shutting things down. The frustrating thing is I want to buy an MSR product and I CANT. The distributer system seems to be wrong. If I get some time I might check if the distributers' contracts are in breach of Australia's trade practices laws.

You can buy MSR stoves from within Australia...

I can well understand that Australian distributors require sole rights to supply retailers within Australia or their specific territory (geographic, market segment etc) but trying to prevent consumers from purchasing from outside sources is where it all goes wrong. Using the example below world pricing for MSR products is quite similar between USA and Europe but add 67% to get the Australian price.

Doing a quick international shop around I can buy an MSR XGK EX stove from the UK for AU$150 after VAT is removed. In the US it costs US$150 and in Australia $250, in France AU$172 (including 19.6% VAT). Postage from the UK is usually cheaper than from the US. I believe EU regulations prevent restraint of trade requirements like MSR etc impose on US retailers.

One can only assume that we are being gouged and that bleating about the GST etc is just spin.

Sorry, you are not dealing with Australian law in this issue as the Australian distributors cannot directly pressure US retailers. It is US law as this is where the pressure (Cascade Designs) and the retailers are.

We need to organise with the industry to oppose 30% levy on outdoor goods! This is a major factor in price difference from US/UK to Aus.

You can buy MSR stoves from within Australia...[/quote]
Not the new ones I want which is the Windd Pro II or the Whisperlite Universal. Maybe the local distributers are running down their existing stock before stocking the better new product.

this dude will ship if you ask nicely.

universal stove for $90

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/fs-new ... /107782447

Wolfix - what is this 30% levy on outdoor goods? If you mean import duty, then most items are either free or 5% duty paid by the importer and later 10% gst paid by the final non registered purchaser. There may be some clothing items that are still under a higher tariff barrier but most are not. Perhaps you are referring to the markup that the importers add as a profit margin before selling to retailers - this will vary and is not a fixed 30%. You only need to note that prices didn't fall by any noticeable amount when the US-AU exchange rate went from 60 cents to $1.05 - it all went to the importers.

Hmm then the importers are lying *&%$#! because I have asked a few and they all say 30%.

Not surprised that an importer might lie, intentionally or not. I've been looking at re-setting my gear as it were since the move (no need for big sleeping bags and multi-fuel stoves on the coast, I'm not camping in snow again for a LONG while!) the markups are nuts. looks like most of my gear buying will happen on trips back to Canada, even if it takes some time. worst case, I can pay standard freight shipping, get a buddy to send it, and still come out ahead! I've been on the hunt for gear made in Aus to try to cut the margins, but there isn't much here. (although I do now own a very nice swag for outback trips, which is a non-existent product in Canada! funny thing is, I bet it would work pretty well for solo deep-cold camping.)

The issue on pricing is not the shops but the distributor. MSR has a particularly bad importer/distributor Very happy to import stuff without spare parts and any warranty claim is blamed on user abuse. For the "privilege" of this we are forced to pay way over the odds.

Fortunately MSR stuff is normally well built so most do not get to experience a MSR warranty claim. In an email exchange with one of the big USA online shops they were amazed by the by the number of Australians that were happy to buy even though MSR Australian distributor would not honour the warranty. In the end MSR banned them from shipping to Australia to keep the Australian distributor happy.

Sadly MSR will never get the market share that they deserve due to the distributor. I refuse to buy any Cascade Design product locally in protest.

Regards

Mano wrote:You can buy MSR stoves from within Australia...

Not the new ones I want which is the Windd Pro II or the Whisperlite Universal. Maybe the local distributers are running down their existing stock before stocking the better new product.[/quote]

I just ordered the Whisperlite Universal from Wild-Earth

Edit - not sure why the 'quote' thing didn't work properly
Edir #2. OOps - I ordered the Whisperlite International (the one that runs on multi-fuel types). Damn - the Universal looks better, due to the use of canisters as well! Bugger
Might be sending it back.
Kelly's basecamp says it will have it in stock 'soon'. Otherwise other distributors, with attendant hassles etc
/sigh

Onestepmore wrote: Damn - the Universal looks better, due to the use of canisters as well! Bugger Might be sending it back.

Don't fret too much, I doubt there are too many in here that haven't regretted or stuffed up a purchase at some time or other.

i have a windpro ii on its way from a uk shop.

Onestepmore wrote:. MSR Universal -
Kelly's basecamp says it will have it in stock 'soon'.

Hiking.com.au have it listed too as 'coming soon'. [are these the same company?]

I returned my incorrectly ordered MSR International to Wild Earth without any problems, and had a chat to someone there about the Universal. They too had planned to stock it, but then rang me back last week to say that it seems it was unlikley to get approval for import to Australia at all due to not complying with some Aust Standards etc. There is over a $100 price difference too between their proposed listed price, and obtaining it directly from the US :/
The MSR Universal also has the capacity to use unleaded gas http://www.hiking.com.au/p/6825684/msr- ... -soon.html

need...to...get...creative ordering one, lol

He did mention there was a Kovea multi fuel/canister one available - has anyone used this?
This looks like it here http://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/kovea-b ... e/TKB-0603
Doesn't appear to use unleaded gas

For expedition multifuel stoves Primus makes a couple of good models too; the omnifuel or omnifuel ti.

Any stove that burns shellite should burn unleaded but you really wouldn't want to except as absolutely necessary as the chemicals they put in it to stop car engines knocking aren't very good for you.

Thanks for that tip. I wanted something with versatility for overseas use, as we're planning a trip to Chile next year, and I'm not sure what will be available there. We have a basic Kovea and a Jetboil Flash with additional sol ti cup for light use. Cheers.

I've been using the windpro II for a couple of weeks and it's a nifty stove. With an adjustable flame It's a lot like home cooking.

Something that I don't think has been mentioned is that as well as helping in cold conditions, the canister inversion is handy for getting that last bit of fuel when you're running on empty.

I don't have much experience with other stoves, but am loving this one. Easy to use, good control, nice and safe.