Macpac Hollyford Jacket delamination

[microbugs]

I have an 18month old Hollyford that is delaminating at the corners of the collar (2 x 2cm2 patches). Found out the hard way this weekend going with a group up the Pinnacles in Coromandel, wet neck after a few hours in the rain. The first overnight with this jacket and only the second trip with a pack on. It goes to work with me most days in the winter (20min walk) and has been cleaned regularly.

Has anyone else had any issues with Hollyford jackets, or eVent?? I really like the cut (length) but this leaking......

Bugs
(Macpac fan from way back, our 16 year old Cascade and Esprit are still going )

[wayno]

my macpac event resolution delaminated pretty quickly... i believe others have had issues on this forum..
not just mapcpac event delaminates other brands as well.. montane... has been reported on this site.

[microbugs]

Bugger, thanks wayno. I'm taking the jacket into the local Macpac shop this afternoon, here's hoping they will fix it under warranty..... The Hollyford is the only decent length coat i could find so i hope i don't have to look for something else..

[wayno]

you should get a replacement, i believe someone here with a macpac prophet got one after delamination.
maybe its a bad batch of fabric..

[microbugs]

hope so, i rang head office, will take up to 2 weeks once i get the jacket to the store, to access and fix/replace. Will have to find something else to keep me dry walking to work

[sthughes]

Yeah I have a Hollyford, strangely fabric de-lamination is one of the few issues it doesn't have. But I have only worn mine a handful of times. You will find the velcro things at the cuffs also come apart, the pale blue fabric pills easily and the reflective stuff peels off. I could go on - suffice to say I think it's an over priced POS. For a nice length jacket I'd look at the Mountain Designs Loongana.

[Ent]

Hi

I have a couple of eVent jackets. The Montane Air is deliminating but it is a very light weight weight jacket. I sent a report off to Montane and they asked for photographs of it and it tougher Venture sibling that I am having the same issue with. Must get the pictures sent off. Basically a couple of overnight walks is all it takes to have issues with eVent products in my experience. But the Rab eVent pants are impressive so me thinks brand and what they specify what and how the eVent membrane is bonded to is the big factor explaining the rather dichotomous experience amongst posters. At the moment I would be very careful in deciding what eVent jacket brand I would be getting.

I noticed that the original poster was from NZ so you may not have Mountain Design there but if you do then check out the MD Stratus jacket. It is mid thigh length and much better cut than the Hollyford. The only downside is it uses the older Performance Gore-tex material rather than the newer and better performing Pro-shell. I have a Paddy Pallin Vista in Pro-shell and can not fault the jacket material and general design apart from the rather average hood. Sadly this jacket is no longer being made.

Be great if someone out there did a Gore-tex Pro-shell jacket in knee length with a proper walking cut. The newer model MD Stratus is a much better slimer cut than its older versions so at least MD is starting to listen. The Hollyford in the XXL is better suited for a Sum-mo body shape.

Cheers

[wayno]

i ended up getting a columbia shell, they use an air permeable membrane of their own that was already in use in other industry. no issues with it yet. only had it on one day with an over night pack so far though... if that fails, might go to a 3 layer pertex which is similar breathability to gore tex..... or neoshell but those are pretty expensive....

[microbugs]

So far (18 months) delamination is the only issue i've had. (crosses fingers). As far as cut goes i like it, if i need more leg stride or for climbing i just back the zip up. We do have a Mountain Design store locally so i'll have a look but i've no experience with their gear. All my other Macpac gear has been great. I still trust my Minaret in a storm.

[Franco]

"Basically a couple of overnight walks is all it takes to have issues with eVent products "

I have used a Montane Venture jacket ( my winter/late autumn early spring jacket) for at least 30 days with a pack on , still looks pretty much as new to me.
bought that when they first came out.

BTW
From Ent:
very poor hood design
It is diabolical but it was designed to be worn over an helmet .
However on a positive note , I have not seen a worse one.

[wayno]

mountain designs have the latest gore tex in their top end jackets... proshell being their top end 3 layer storm shell. got to hand it to gore tex they tend to have less issues than other membranes and have great warranties... they havent been too quick to jump on the air permeable membrane market and it may be to their benefit in the long term. they know a lot of outdoor people want tried and trusted over the latest gimmicks.
a while back i was thinking they were turning out to be a bunch of dinosaurs because they havent got any air permeable jackets, now i'm not thinking that.
although they have been pretty anti competitively aggressive in cutting off supply permanently to companies using event. you wonder how much those companies switched to event because they didnt want a supplier telling them what they could and couldnt sell...

[microbugs]

well i took the jacket in, it will be sent away for evaluation. Could be 3-4 weeks!!!!! if Macpac decide to repair it (depending on how busy they are.....?repairing gear that fails???). So i'll update when i know more.

I had a look at the Mountain Design Stratus, looks good, it has pit zips which i wish i'd known about when i bought the Hollyford 18 months ago! $400 NZD locally at present.

We (family of 5) are planning to spend 5-7 days in Nelson Lakes National Park next summer, i was going to get 4 Macpac Hollyfords for the Wife and kids, might have to rethink that now.....

[wayno]

bivouac always have some stuff on sale. Outdoor research, fantastic brand. mountain designs have regular sales. join up to their club and they'll email you about the next sale they have.

[wayno]

something like this as an alternative..
if you're buying multiple garments always try and get an extra discount if possible. not always possible on sale items but worth a try

http://www.bivouac.co.nz/clothing/mens- ... olour.html

http://www.bivouac.co.nz/clothing/women ... olour.html

[Ent]

I had a look at the Mountain Design Stratus, looks good, it has pit zips which i wish i'd known about when i bought the Hollyford 18 months ago! $400 NZD locally at present.

We (family of 5) are planning to spend 5-7 days in Nelson Lakes National Park next summer, i was going to get 4 Macpac Hollyfords for the Wife and kids, might have to rethink that now.....

Bugger you missed MD sale with mates rates that put mine down to I think $244 AUD. At that price I could forgive the use of the Performance over the Pro-Shell. MD as a company do get labelled with the Kathmandu mantra but over the last few of years have been working hard to get their reputation back after a bad run with management and design that gave MD a poor reputation. Reading on this site they have stood by their products. Their sizing and general design is improving to the point that of the single brand store they are in my opinion the best for clothing. Dam pity that they can not maintain a relationship with One Planet for top class packs and gaiters.

Franco, glad that you are not having any issues with your Montane Venture jacket. I will keep the group posted on Montane's response re mine. Mine is the first model that I brought on throw out special so has the very poor hood design that after much grumbling by many was fixed on subsequent versions by Montane. Actually, the hood design on the Montane Air is one of the best around so Montane listened as well. Also there is abrasion on the strap area on the Venture jacket. Nothing too terrible but my benchmark is the Pro-shell PP Vista that after many wears in all sorts of condition that jacket still manages to look almost new.

Cheers

[blacksheep]

well i took the jacket in, it will be sent away for evaluation. Could be 3-4 weeks!!!!! if Macpac decide to repair it (depending on how busy they are.....?repairing gear that fails???). So i'll update when i know more...

No way should this take more than a few days. If there is and hint of delamination we will replace immediately. Which store did you return to please, do you have return docket #? I'll see what the story is, you'll be sorted out quick smart, sorry for the incontinence. Cam

[microbugs]

The Base store in Hamilton, spoke to Sarah (good, helpful, polite), my green macpac repair/assessment form number 10493. Expected ETA back to store: 3wks-1 month minimum (Sarah made it clear that i would hear back earlier but this is how long it could take if repair was the option of choice)

ps no incontinence at all

[blacksheep]

*&%$#! auto correct on HTC..blush...

[wayno]

are there any plans to change the fabric used for these macpac jackets that keep delaminating and pilling?

[Rob A]

How come you bought it with those map pockets? Copeland hangs right next door to it.

I have used a Montane Venture jacket ... still looks pretty much as new to me.
bought that when they first came out.

Never had a days problem with anything out of Montane. But then I dont buy into the event latest and greatest bull.

[blacksheep]

are there any plans to change the fabric used for these macpac jackets that keep delaminating and pilling?

two part answer.
yes- we have changed mills for some fabrics (as have RAB, Montane who where previously using the same laminator we used on some of the fabrics). Despite always getting great quality results from SGS on every batch, I can't deny that I have seen irregualr results in the bulk- and it was one laminator out of the three we used that was the common connection. I have seen delaminating fabric, I have seen less than ideal DWR on some of the fabrics.

and no- (to the "keep on " part of the question)
The only real measure I can use meaningfully for quality is return rate (that is after raw material pass and QA/QC remove /reject unacceptable goods)- and on Hollyfords it is high for us- around 4.5% (generally manufactures view 3% as an upper acceptable 2 year rate, company wide we have 0.45% return rate). I can't account for people that have never returned or complained about them, but I know it exists- I read it hear. From discussions with GE, this one mill has been cut off, and their main customers (including some pretty big names) have had some bigger issues than us (not only using GE's eVent membrane, they laminate a few different films you'd know of too..)

I read what is written hear, most people here are really constructive, plus have very direct feedback from our stores. Yes, I have been planning change from the first reports of niggles and issues. In the mean time, we will look after customers (and ideally mush faster than the original poster was advised).

cheers
Cam

[wayno]

is gore tex still out of the equation while event is used?
what about using neoshell?

[blacksheep]

is gore tex still out of the equation while event is used?
what about using neoshell?

1. Yes, but in every blind test eVEnt was preferred in all our trials anyway.
2. We are trialling now, but it is not an eVent competitor, it is a bit different ad you know.

[wayno]

pit zips? vented pockets?

[Pongo]

Yeah I had issues with the dwr on my hollyford Microbugs. My experience sounds similar to yours. Don't expect miracles.

My jacket was put in on the 18th of last month and is only being looked by the repairer this Thursday (a full month later). When checking it in got the speel that I may have to pay the costs of the assessment if they don't find anything, a very rude approach I found; and audacious given the jacket barely knows what rain is and is well cared for. The girl argued with me that hollyfords have never had an issue. I ended up offering to e-mail her her threads from this site to assist with product education. It also sat in the store for two weeks before being dropped to the repairers - this I know because I called the store to find out what was going on.

End result - I've walked with a two dollar poncho for the last month and am very quickly getting turned off a brand I once loved. I only wish they delivered service with the vim that Cam does on here.

[Ent]

Hi Cam

Good to read that there are known issues with the MacPac Hollyford in particular and attempts are being made to look after some customers. The question on the DWR is a big issue as more than a few have not had much luck re-proofing the jackets themselves. Hopefully replacements or refunds will be provided to these customers. This confirms the experience of sthughes and norts to name but two on this site. The known failure rate is rather dramatic and I am sure many have just given up an not bothered to seek resolution so the actual failure rate would be higher again. Plus more than a few would just accept the performance of their item poor.

Also confirms my experience with the Montane products and the lack of issues with my Rab product. By all accounts Montane have been excellent in dealing with returns. Appears to be pot luck to the consumer where the material for their outershell is acquired from. Pity there is no way for consumers to trace their products nor an active product recall. Be great if consumers purchasing from the website could be let known and offered an automatic refund or replacement if their outerwear came from a known faulty batch.

Regards

[microbugs]

Yeah I had issues with the dwr on my hollyford Microbugs. My experience sounds similar to yours. Don't expect miracles.

My jacket was put in on the 18th of last month and is only being looked by the repairer this Thursday (a full month later). When checking it in got the speel that I may have to pay the costs of the assessment if they don't find anything, a very rude approach I found; and audacious given the jacket barely knows what rain is and is well cared for. The girl argued with me that hollyfords have never had an issue. I ended up offering to e-mail her her threads from this site to assist with product education. It also sat in the store for two weeks before being dropped to the repairers - this I know because I called the store to find out what was going on.

End result - I've walked with a two dollar poncho for the last month and am very quickly getting turned off a brand I once loved. I only wish they delivered service with the vim that Cam does on here.

Just phoned the store, jacket has been sent, so that's a good start.....

[microbugs]

Got the call today. Under warranty. Just picked up a brand new coat . Lets hope this one doesn't have any problems..... I wonder if this coat is a different batch of fabric to the faulty stuff, hope so. So thank you Macpac, a pity the product failed, but you lived up to your warranty claims.

[wayno]

heres hoping this one does the job for you mate...

[microbugs]

you would not believe it!!!!!! the replacement is faulty. (So i've just been back and got IT replaced). Brand new replacement had a small 3mm spot and another blemish on the back where you can see the red (coat colour) fabric through the inside grey fabric, some sort of lamination/fabric creation problem. I took pictures this time...So when buying eVent gear CHECK IT ALL OVER before you leave the store...
The End...i hope.