Bushwalk Australia

http://www.backpacker.com/gear/ask_kristin/433

Euro tents have always been way, way over kill in terms of their PU floor coatings,” he says. “But the American backpacking market has proven that lighter coatings (and fabrics, like sil-nylon) are very waterproof, and the conservative Euro market is slowly changing.”

USA tent floors are very poor to next to useless in my experience and observation.

The only floors that have stood up was the floor in Fairydown I had twenty years ago and various macapc tents.

The BD Mesa I use a lot and am very happy with but the floor barely copes and I expect to see leaks. I have come to the conclusion that USA tents are designed for prepared and hardened clean tent platforms or sites. The North Face Mountain 25 is a bomber tent but I would not use the floor off snow or clean grass.

How can you overkill a floor? Sounds like an oxymoron.

wayno, you have posted the link up because you agree or disagree?

i wondered... a lot of the us tents have the option to purchase the extra footprint to sit the tent on to bolster the floor.
problem is when you're lying on fabric that ups the pressure on the floor increasing the likelihood of water coming through.
a lot of americans seem to want to go ultralight. so light tents are attractive to them

Water head of pressure is rather an abstract measurement. If is ability to resist sharp objects that matters IMHO.

The Hilleberg floor is up to the task but my MSR Nook does require a groundsheet.

Chees.

wander wrote:The North Face Mountain 25 is a bomber tent but I would not use the floor off snow or clean grass.

floor: 70D 210T nylon taffeta coated with 10000 mm PU

How much tougher can you ask for? A few tents around with 100D+ floors, but 70D is nothing to sneeze at.

I expect the importance of the floor and keeping it absolutely watertight depends on the conditions you walk in. If you camp on saturated ground then the waterproofness matters but if you are normally able to select a relatively dry pitch then the floor is really only keeping out the dirt and bugs. How often do you drop the tent to find a very dry oblong where it was pitched? I have found that spending a few minutes grooming the ground under the tent allows the use of quite lightweight floors. My own philospophy is that rather than carry a footprint, I would rather patch the floor as and when required. My silnylon floor has had 60+ nights usage and it is still a good as new. I am willing to admit that if I was doing a lot in SW Tas I would reconsider.

For what it is worth I believe a ground sheet /footprint is worth its weight ,in the last recent 30 odd years with a K Mart A Frame ,Carribee Caddis,Eureka Moonshadow,Fairydown Snowcave, Macpac Stellar,Macpac Microlite,Ferrino Lightent 2 (gear testing only) Scarp 1 ,Scarp 2,I have never had any penetration or water ingress in the floors having used a mix of "black plastic " and Tyvek ground sheets over the years and it really kept the external floors clean and mostly moisture free .

To each their own but I do believe for the small cost and weight that a ground sheet/footprint is well worth it to protect a valuable Tent
corvus

But why make a floor that is so thin you need to have another bit of kit in the ground sheet? It would be easier to have a better floor to start with.

And I have found there is a pump action that occurs between the floor and the ground sheet (footprint) that forces water through any pin hole that has formed in the tent floor.

It is rare for me to have a Tas wander without at least 1 campsite where the tent is not sitting in 2 inches of water. The floor has to be water tight in these conditions. The Mesa and the Mountain 25 tent floor fabrics get this wet and damp appearance and feel in these conditions. When you pack up the tent the floor is clearly saturated. And you have to peg your stove to stop it floating way.

probably doesnt rain very hard in a lot of areas in the states... campsites where the ground is saturated may not be such an issue...

wander wrote:But why make a floor that is so thin you need to have another bit of kit in the ground sheet? It would be easier to have a better floor to start with.

Why bother with a thick floor if a footprint negates its primary purpose (puncture resistance) and provides the added benefit of keeping your tent clean?

wander wrote:It is rare for me to have a Tas wander without at least 1 campsite where the tent is not sitting in 2 inches of water.

Sounds like you need to move to higher ground.

Sounds like you need to move to higher ground.

I'll take this with the wink. You do not always get a choice is Tas about where camp. But now I think about it some of the highest campsites were the wetest, Mount Massif (though this did drain very well) PB, The Labrynth for example.

So your tent floor is clean but your ground sheet or footprint is dirty? What is the difference?

I'm not sure of your point about puncture resistance. I'm not sure that a thicker floor is any less puncture resistance than 2 layers of thin fabric. I'd have to do a real test of this to be convinced either way. Over the years my macpac floors have demonstrated very good puncture resistance and worn very well. I have shared tents with other folks who have floors that leaked simply because of wear over the fabric.

I think thinner floors are solely so the marketing can say "our tent is lighter than your tent". And I would hazard a guess that most of the lighter floor fabrics are cheaper than a really good floor fabric. So marketing again can say "our tent is cheaper than your tent". I do not think it has anything what so ever to do with the functionality of the tent except that it is lighter. But there is no point in being lighter if it ultimately does not work.

wander wrote:So your tent floor is clean but your ground sheet or footprint is dirty? What is the difference?

Footprint doesn't get packed away with the rest of the tent.

wander wrote:I'm not sure that a thicker floor is any less puncture resistance than 2 layers of thin fabric.

Regardless of which is more/less puncture resistant, both setups are sufficient. Although I think you would have a hard time puncturing a Tyvek footprint.