Bushwalk Australia

Has any one had any experiences with the Sea To Summit sleeping bag liners that are meant to in erase the temperature rating of the sleeping bag? I am thinking of buying the reactor plus

See viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11198#p148616

My reply to a query
It'll be fine - I have a liner the same.
It's lighter and more compact than the Sea to Summit micro fleece liners (Premium Toaster Fleece) we use for car camping in winter and for our kids at scouts (they are about half the price but double the bulk)

There are 3 temperature rating bags in the series you have chosen - you've got the mid range one that is also the lightest.

STS Thermolite
Reactor +8 deg C 90 x 210 cm 248g
Compact Plus +11 deg C 90 x 183cm 263g
Reactor Extreme +14 deg C 90 x 210cm 399g

Hi All
I used one of the sea to summit liners the only one available at the time I was camped on the saddle at the base of Feathertop i have forgotten what time of year it was but I was pretty cold in the tent, in my Cats meow bag so put the liner in but had to rip it out later in the night just got to hot for comfort. So I recon they work very well, I would definitely recommend them.
Climbingone

I will second that......I've used the StS reactor extreme and it makes a huge difference in warmth

Unfortunately I have an opposing opinion.

I own a few types of liners, including the StS Reactor Liner, and think they don't do much at all.... for me. I have tried it in conjunction with various bags, in various temps, and found no difference at all. I also think they are wasted weight. I personally would prefer to purchase a bag suitable for the environment (hence I have about 4/5 different bags). Mind you, I always wear a base layer to bed, simply to protect the bag, thus negating the need for a liner altogether.

Best bang (warmth) for buck and weight liner is going to be a vapour barrier.

They are not for everyone (damp nights sleep and getting out of the bag in the morning is a cold rush!) and really only best for temperatures around freezing and below (though i have used to about 8 degrees to experiment). People generally rate a vapour barrier to add 5 to 8 degrees c in warmth in cold conditions.

An SOL emergency bivy costs about $20, weighs about 100g and is durable enough for multiple uses. Also serves as your space blanket and an emergency bivy.

If you like the concept than upgrade to a Western Mountaineering Hotsac.

But i suspect that a S2S reactor liner is going to be a whole lot nicer to sleep in

I have a Reactor and a Reactor Extreme and I love them both. I can go to sleep in stages without overheating or freezing. I start in my liner (which one depends on season) with feet in bag and zip up bag as it gets colder. The stretch makes them far more comfy than a silk or cotton liner and they are great for general travel when the air con is on too strong. This happens often on the Mountains trains so I carry my Reactor when I commute. Also great for plane trips and good as a summer bag.

I'd agree with Quicky (and the laws of physics). While there is no doubt a fleece liner will add warmth, these figures:

Onestepmore wrote:
STS Thermolite
Reactor +8 deg C 90 x 210 cm 248g
Compact Plus +11 deg C 90 x 183cm 263g
Reactor Extreme +14 deg C 90 x 210cm 399g

are bollocks. There is no way the reactor makes a -7c bag from something +1 rated and STS should acknowledge that.. those most likely to believe so would at the very least have a lousy night. As a comparison my 800+ fill Marmot bags would barely achieve this with a similar weight of extra super feathers.

Hi Nuts

I agree a little bit of honesty from S2S or test results would be appreciated. Given that down is suppose to be the best insulator I to find such claims extravagant. If they were as good as claimed then why not a UL super reactor sleeping bag?

Nuts wrote:I'd agree with Quicky (and the laws of physics). While there is no doubt a fleece liner will add warmth, these figures:

Onestepmore wrote:
STS Thermolite
Reactor +8 deg C 90 x 210 cm 248g
Compact Plus +11 deg C 90 x 183cm 263g
Reactor Extreme +14 deg C 90 x 210cm 399g

are bollocks. There is no way the reactor makes a -7c bag from something +1 rated and STS should acknowledge that.. those most likely to believe so would at the very least have a lousy night. As a comparison my 800+ fill Marmot bags would barely achieve this with a similar weight of extra super feathers.

+1

I've actually emailed them with a question about their waterproof compression bags but also asked them to explain how they get their ratings for the Reactors as I'm interested in one, not really, I'd prefer a silk liner but curious of what they say.

Oh and I would have thought wearing a base layer would make no difference to your sweat levels in a sleeping bag and that any liner would help to stop the oils from your sweat getting all over the inside of the bag or better yet into the down. I mean I wear PJ's to bed but I still use sheets and a mattress protector for my bed

wildernesswanderer wrote:I've actually emailed them with a question about their waterproof compression bags but also asked them to explain how they get their ratings for the Reactors as I'm interested in one, not really, I'd prefer a silk liner but curious of what they say.

I too an interested in the response you receive, as one of these products would be a good way for me to boost my daughters rather thin looking Snowgum Bear-Hug sleeping bag for colder weather outings.

However, I fear that the response will be something along the lines of:

'Sea to Summit has conducted extensive real-world testing on its thermal liners which have resulted in the temperature 'ratings' given for each product.

However, the thermal performance of a liner is affected by a number of factors, including the technical design of the sleeping bag it is being used with (remember, sleeping bag 'ratings' are not subject to regulation and are often unrealistic), your own metabolism, external air temperature and humidity, and the type of sleeping pad you're sleeping on.' (my italics)

Cheers

Um. Why take a sleeping bag liner, instead of taking other more useful clothing options?

I now sleep in my day clothes plus a quilt, the latter of which stays much the same over the seasons. I choose day clothing that is minimally water absorbing, so it tends to dry out just by wearing it. I add various insulated clothing layers in winter ( even in the snow), and just sleep in base layers in summer. It's all v easy.

I think people need to dissociate how they sleep at home vs how they sleep in the bush.

Unless you're into bush bonking, which requires nakedness, it's easier to just add clothing layers when it gets colder, even adding waterproofs if needed.

The only downside is that you don't then have spare clothing for a pillow, so you have to find a pillow alternative.

Andrew A

I'm not too sure I would want to wear day clothes in my sleeping bag instead of a liner. Kind of defeats the purpose or keeping your sleeping bag clean if you are going to wear dusty/sweaty/muddy clothes in it.....or have I misunderstood your post?

I agree with Andew and others that the ratings seem rather suss but they will add some measure of warmth. If they really wanted to test then I would assume that they could take a sleeping bag and test it to the EN13537 standard (S2S sleeping bags are already tested to this standard), then insert the liner and re do the test. The difference between the rating for the Comfort or Lower Limit measures would be a reasonable value for the added insulation of the liners.

I only keep a couple of pieces of clothing specifically for camp/ night wear. Polypro leggings and a MontBell Ex lite down jacket. I keep wearing my top layers and even after a day of rain they dry quite quickly once I am snuggled in.

I use a very light silk liner (85g) mainly to keep my quilt or bag clean and think this is a worthwhile addition to my sleeping system. For 3 seasons use it is a quilt, then add the required level of clothes to reach about -3C. For conditions below that I add a WM Highlite under the quilt for colder conditions.

andrewa wrote:Um. Why take a sleeping bag liner, instead of taking other more useful clothing options?
I now sleep in my day clothes...

Why? Sleeping in clothes is uncomfortable.

andrewa wrote:I think people need to dissociate how they sleep at home vs how they sleep in the bush.

Why? A sleeping bag, silk liner, with or without a clean base layer of clothing, all atop a inflatable mat inside a good tent is comfortable. A home away from home. This is not difficult, nor is it particularly heavy.

andrewa wrote:The only downside is that you don't then have spare clothing for a pillow, so you have to find a pillow alternative.

Haven't you dissociated how you sleep at home from how you sleep in the bush?

What is the benefit of your system?

hi All
I will restate I recon these things are the best warmth for weight around but don't believe me try one yourself. If you are concerned about the temp buy a down mat use a 20degree F bag of your liking and take a liner just encase. You can always wear your jacket to bed if its that cold, but with my set up I have not had the problem.
Jb

andrewa wrote:Um. Why take a sleeping bag liner, instead of taking other more useful clothing options?

I now sleep in my day clothes plus a quilt, the latter of which stays much the same over the seasons. I choose day clothing that is minimally water absorbing, so it tends to dry out just by wearing it. I add various insulated clothing layers in winter ( even in the snow), and just sleep in base layers in summer. It's all v easy.

I think people need to dissociate how they sleep at home vs how they sleep in the bush.

Unless you're into bush bonking, which requires nakedness, it's easier to just add clothing layers when it gets colder, even adding waterproofs if needed.

The only downside is that you don't then have spare clothing for a pillow, so you have to find a pillow alternative.

Andrew A

Day clothes?? What after you have been wearing them all day, mmm nice hygiene.

If I need to dissociate how I sleep at home to how I sleep in the bush you may want to do the same thing, why do you want a pillow??

I'll take my mat, sleeping bag, silk liner, pillow and fresh base layer for sleeping thanks

I love this forum.
You never know what tangent it will lead off to
An innocent question about a sleeping bag liner ends up as a discussion about smelly clothes, sweaty bodies, bush bonking, and personal hygeine habits

Peronally I like the above liners for cooler weather, otherwise I use a silk liner.
Clean thermals, bit of a wash, brush teeth. I obviously haven't disassociated bush from bed!

I'm with Andrew A. Carrying - and getting in and out of - extra kit for sleeping is just more hassle and weight. I tend to hike solo so no one else need be concerned with my hygiene and really, for shorter trips, it's a non-issue anyway.

I think there are a few princesses (and princes) on this thread.

andrewbish wrote:I'm with Andrew A. Carrying - and getting in and out of - extra kit for sleeping is just more hassle and weight. I tend to hike solo so no one else need be concerned with my hygiene and really, for shorter trips, it's a non-issue anyway.

I think there are a few princesses (and princes) on this thread.

So you have disassociated how you sleep in the bush from how you sleep at home. Do you use a pillow?

Are solo walkers those who are unconcerned with personal hygiene?

Maddog - you are a disgrace to your username. You should change it to PamperedPoodle.

Regards
Smelly

I apologise for using the term "pillow". I don't take one. I usually use a 10l bladder, which I wouldn't sleep on at home. So, yes, I think I have dissociated the way I sleep in the bush compared with home.

A

If I'm only camping a couple of nights I want to be really comfy as it takes me time to get used to the different bed. I'm happy to take extra weight as I can carry more weight on good sleep better than less weight on no sleep.

I find their ratings are maybe 4 or 5 degrees out so the Extreme isn't too bad if you want to add around 5 C.

Pillows? Geez, that's soft, what's wrong with a small pile of rocks?

Kinsayder wrote:Pillows? Geez, that's soft, what's wrong with a small pile of rocks?

Andrew A and B would prefer you do not refer to pillows. They have dissociated how they sleep at home vs how they sleep in the bush. The traditional cuddly lion hot water bottle is a bladder.

Cute!

Actually I didn't mind them being referred to as pillows - I just didn't want those clean poodles thinking I was taking a big fluffy hotel style pillow into the bush to pretend I was sleeping on a pile of rocks.

Where do I get a cuddly lion bladder thingy?

A

andrewa wrote:I apologise for using the term "pillow". I don't take one. I usually use a 10l bladder, which I wouldn't sleep on at home. So, yes, I think I have dissociated the way I sleep in the bush compared with home.

A

Wish I had a 10 litre bladder. Would save a lot of getting up during the night.
You've all got me worried, I bought us a couple of reactors to go in our -4C rated bags
just hoping that they will at least be -4C bags with the reactor.

andrewa wrote:I apologise for using the term "pillow". I don't take one. I usually use a 10l bladder, which I wouldn't sleep on at home. So, yes, I think I have dissociated the way I sleep in the bush compared with home.

A

Still a pillow, nothing new in using wine bladders as pillows. Used to use on 30 years ago as a ..... Pillow

Each to their own on comfort level. Whether its a therm-a-rest, S2S or a wine cast bladder all still pillows. I'll take the comfortable one.

I don't mind being a softy to sleep well, oh and even mad dogs will lick their b$&ls to keep clean