Bushwalk Australia

Technology appears to have marched on in the mat department and I would appreciate members guidance on what is state of the art these days. I'm still using a 23 year old Thermarest which was light years ahead of my Berghous closed cell mat which was light years ahead of my plastic groundshet and hip hole. Having read about the Exped mats on this forum my wife and I tried some out at Mountain Equipment. She now has her heart - or hips - set on one. My impression formed from posts on here - and the MD salesperson- was that Exped had overtaken Thermarest however I came across a review on Ourdorgearlab.com which bascially trashed the Exped Synmat 7. The Editor's pick was the Neo Air XTherm. I note that my wife's Thermarest is 1,075g. The Neo Air is 425g and the Exped Syndmat is 850g. Basically my question comes down to the weight to comfort ratio. My wife would err on the comfort side however she is also sensible about weight.

I would like some feedback on whether the Exped is super comfortable and if so is it worth the extra weight? Also, is the Neoair more comfortable than an Exped 7 and an older style Thermarest? Are there any other suggested options? Santa is very keen to know.

I have a Neo Air standard - no insulation as such. It is light and comfortable. Packs up to very little but can be a pain to inflate after a hard day.
I also have an Exped UL Downmat 7. Heavy compared to the Neo, heavier than the synmat but oh so wonderful. Its warm, its comfortable, no sore hips or shoulders and it has a nifty bag to inflate it.

The choice would depend on the conditions you intend to use it. Something with insulation will be better in cold areas but comes with a heavier load. Forget the thermarest self inflaters though, far too heavy and not much comfort. I have one of them too.

My wife just bought a Therm-a-rest NeoAir All Season (4.9 rating), will tell you in a couple of days how it goes as where heading to Mt Feathertop tomorrow. She actually got a long one for the width, I wouldn't personally but it's 710g and packs quite small for the size, in fact it weighs only 60g more than my really old Therm-a-rest Ultralite Performance mat and packs up just as small. Kelly's Basecamp has a special at the moment $100 off.

http://www.kellysbasecamp.com.au/p/4532 ... -teal.html

Outdoorgearlab probably should have compared apples with apples (more so) and reviewed the Exped Synmat UL. R-value about 3, weighs under 500g and packs very small.

I went through the same progression as you but started one stage up (with CCF). I think the Synmat UL and neoairs compete - the exped downmats and the like have very high r-values so there is benefit to the weight in very cold conditions.

I find R-value of about 5 is more than enough (incl. snow camping) and prefer to use a normal ccf under the Synmat - that also gives me a fallback option if the synmat gets a catastrophic tear or the like (small punctures are quick and easy to fix in the field - been there!). Under most conditions (not on snow but cold) the synmat on its own is plenty (i think it is 'rated' to -4c). Indeed it would be fine on most Aussie snow on its own - but i like the CCF backup.

I think the current mats have made the thermarest prolites etc redundant.

Exped is super comfortable compared to an old thermarest (i doubt anyone will tell you otherwise) and there is no weight penalty for the UL series if that is enough R's for you (indeed they are much lighter than the self-inflating mats). The depth of the mat means you feel significantly less rocks and sticks.

Neoairs are probably much the same (i have never used one) - some complain about the 'soft' edges and noise though the newer models seem to be getting a slightly better r-value per gram than the expeds (at least in the 3-5 R's range).

Hmmm - in summary to a convoluted rant the current expeds and neoairs are a definite step up from the self-inflating mats. You will win on weight (relative to R's), pack size and comfort. Why not try both types in some stores?

There will always be differing thoughts on the subject of sleeping mats.
I've had the full spectrum over the years, from a Torsolite at 225g to a Thermarest Pro-lite XS at 230g and Pro-lite 3 at 370g to an Exped Down mat 7 Short at 640g and an Exped Synmat UL 7S at 420g.
I'm a big fan of the Expeds these days and the Down mat is superb at those super minus temps.

The soft edges of the Neoair mats certainly make them feel considerably narrower than do the cradling vertical baffles of the Expeds.

I'm more than happy to take the small weight hit of the Downmat UL 7 (565g vs 362g for my Neoair) for the extra comfort. A bad nights sleep just isn't worth it for me.

Thanks for all the replies. A happy well rested walking companion is priceless. Sounds like a Downmat UL 7 is the go and half the weight of the current Thermarest.

Mano wrote:Thanks for all the replies. A happy well rested walking companion is priceless. Sounds like a Downmat UL 7 is the go and half the weight of the current Thermarest.

If you can wait, Mainpeak have 30% off Exped sales every few months. One finished a couple of days ago though, so could be a while for the next one.

nq111 wrote: Under most conditions (not on snow but cold) the synmat on its own is plenty (i think it is 'rated' to -4c). Indeed it would be fine on most Aussie snow on its own - but i like the CCF backup.

Just on this, I did try my synmat UL7 medium on the snow, with a good sleeping bag and I was wearing a couple of layers of clothing. I could feel the cold coming through the mat which made for an uncomfortable night's sleep. My friend who came with me had the same mat, but used a CCF mat underneath and was fine. So I do suggest if you're going to be sleeping on snow to get a downmat or equivalent R value mat.

DB24 wrote:Just on this, I did try my synmat UL7 medium on the snow, with a good sleeping bag and I was wearing a couple of layers of clothing. I could feel the cold coming through the mat which made for an uncomfortable night's sleep. My friend who came with me had the same mat, but used a CCF mat underneath and was fine. So I do suggest if you're going to be sleeping on snow to get a downmat or equivalent R value mat.

I think you have made a fair point and give better advice for guidance.

My comment was based on using and R-value 3 self-inflating (therarest) 3/4 pad by itself on snow in my younger years and being relatively fine. But I had a stupidly warm bag and probably was a bit hardier then.

I have a Synmat UL7 and there is no way I would use it on snow.
With a closed cell mat under ? yes, that's different.
Spend the extra and carry the extra 200g and that Downmat 7 is a beautiful option on snow.

Strider wrote:I'm more than happy to take the small weight hit of the Downmat UL 7 (565g vs 362g for my Neoair) for the extra comfort. A bad nights sleep just isn't worth it for me.

How do you find using the pump sack of the UL Expeds over the internal pumps in the regular models? I've seen the demo video and they are ingenious but they look fidly.

Mano wrote:

Strider wrote:I'm more than happy to take the small weight hit of the Downmat UL 7 (565g vs 362g for my Neoair) for the extra comfort. A bad nights sleep just isn't worth it for me.

How do you find using the pump sack of the UL Expeds over the internal pumps in the regular models? I've seen the demo video and they are ingenious but they look fidly.

I've never used the internal pump models. Though I find the schnozzle sack very easy to use. A little bit fiddly, but it only takes a couple of sacks of air to fill the mat.

Strider wrote:I find the schnozzle sack very easy to use. A little bit fiddly, but it only takes a couple of sacks of air to fill the mat.

+1

I'm generally a side sleeper but I move a lot in my sleep. I have an Exped Synmat UL 7 (460g) and find the vertical baffles very, very comfortable to sleep on. So much so that we are replacing our car camping mattresses because they are not as comfortable as our packwalking mattress (and should be more so since weight is not an issue)! I tried a Thermarest NeoAir in the store and went down the Exped path, so I can't really comment on what NeoAirs are like for a full night's sleep but plenty of people seem to like them as well. We've slept on the Exped down to about -3C. If we were going on a short snow trip I'd take my Exped plus a CC mat for extra insulation and also extra redundancy in my sleep system. But if I was looking at longer trips at low temperature then I'd probably err towards an Exped Downmat over the newer NeoAirs with higher R values. I'd definitely try both out in a store to see which I prefer. The NeoAirs are more expensive but seem to have much better warranties (as has been discussed extensively elsewhere), which is also something to consider. I haven't looked at internal pump mats and would be reluctant to go down that path because of the extra weight per individual mat versus the shared weight of one pump for 2-4 of us since we all have the same mat at the moment. Happy shopping!