Bushwalk Australia

My wife and I delivered a hands on science program to remote students in the Australian outback for 10 years. This was a voluntary activity and we were fortunate enough to have a sponsor who refunded any costs we incurred in delivering the program. (Google; Flying Scientist, Landline).
During this time we covered enough distance to go around the world two and a half times and all of it over the most rugged and remote terrain you can imagine.
From the first take off to the last landing I had an epirb (or PLB) on my belt and a sense of security with it. The program no longer runs (no sponsor) but I take the MT410G on my belt for all boating trips around Corner Inlet and Wilson's Promontory as well as trout hunting hikes in the upper reaches of rivers in the Great Divide.
I used to be a member of the Strezleck bushwalking club but found club activities a bit restrictive and now either hike and fish with a mate or my wife - and my epirb.
In my opinion an epirb is the first thing to be packed for all these activities - after toilet paper.
Regards
Phill Higgins

I totally agree, so many go off walking without them, personally I think this is stupidity and I personally think it should be mandatory for all walkers to carry them. Hope I never need to use mine but I'll always have it

wildernesswanderer wrote:I totally agree, so many go off walking without them, personally I think this is stupidity and I personally think it should be mandatory for all walkers to carry them. Hope I never need to use mine but I'll always have it

I hate to disagree with someone calling the way that I have always enjoyed the bush as being "stupid", however I have done this for a long time (2013 marks my 30th year doing this), and of those, I have done only one walk with an EPIRB, and that was an area in SW Tas that I was not familiar with.

God... who remembers a time before beacons, sat phones and those damn walking poles existed? Was fun, wasn't it?

Sure, things can go wrong, I've done everything from fall off cliffs, split my head open, and get onset hypothermia, and I'll never hold it against anyone for their choice to or not to carry a beacon, however this is my way of enjoying the remoteness of the bush. I don't go to remote areas because I know that I can get an airlift out if things go wrong. I go there because its up to me to get to where I need to go, and wherever the track takes me is where it takes me. To me, this aint stupid. Its adventure.

I now have my own PLB (same as yours Phill) I take it with me most places I go (wether I am with the SBWC or by myself).
I would say I pack it before the toilet paper (if I pack the bum rub).
I say to myself I carry it to enable me to help other people as I think I am unlikely to need to use it. Well I tell that to my loved ones if it goes off and they get a phone call....
Oh yes the SBWC is a little restrictive at times but then what you don't tell them they don't need to know. That is one of the joys of being in a club

ryantmalone wrote:

wildernesswanderer wrote:I totally agree, so many go off walking without them, personally I think this is stupidity and I personally think it should be mandatory for all walkers to carry them. Hope I never need to use mine but I'll always have it

I hate to disagree with someone calling the way that I have always enjoyed the bush as being "stupid", however I have done this for a long time (2013 marks my 30th year doing this), and of those, I have done only one walk with an EPIRB, and that was an area in SW Tas that I was not familiar with.

God... who remembers a time before beacons, sat phones and those damn walking poles existed? Was fun, wasn't it?

Sure, things can go wrong, I've done everything from fall off cliffs, split my head open, and get onset hypothermia, and I'll never hold it against anyone for their choice to or not to carry a beacon, however this is my way of enjoying the remoteness of the bush. I don't go to remote areas because I know that I can get an airlift out if things go wrong. I go there because its up to me to get to where I need to go, and wherever the track takes me is where it takes me. To me, this aint stupid. Its adventure.

So you have fallen off cliffs, split your head open etc...what next? So when you fall off the cliff and break a leg and can't walk what then.... It's a simple safety device and I do think for the cost of one and the things that can go wrong it is stupid not to carry them.

I will always carry one, don't think I'll ever use it but when I go on solo hikes at least my wife knows I have it and can use it if something goes wrong, her piece of mind alone out weighs the hassle of carrying one or buying one....

Until recently I didn't know the difference between an EPIRB and a PLB
Here's a simple explantion from the company I bought our GPS gear from
http://www.ja-gps.com.au/Emergency-Beacons

PLBs
http://www.ja-gps.com.au/Emergency-Beacons/PLBs

EPIRBs
http://www.ja-gps.com.au/Emergency-Beacons/EPIRBs

I have to agree that the peace of mind for the wife (wether at home or out walking as well) is more mportant than the extra weight of carrying one. (only those married will appreciate this!)

Onestepmore wrote:I have to agree that the peace of mind for the wife (wether at home or out walking as well) is more mportant than the extra weight of carrying one. (only those married will appreciate this!)

or husband! I am the one most often heading bush in our household and the hubby and kids appreciate that I can set it off in an emergency. I am especially grateful to have it when I take the kids out on a walk.

ryantmalone wrote:I don't go to remote areas because I know that I can get an airlift out if things go wrong

I don't think too many of us have this attitude.. but lets face it if you are a responsible walker you will have left plans with someone and they will alert authorities if you do not turn up.... so in comes the helicopter search party. The only differece is they will just find me with a PLB a lot quicker than you and probably with less risk to them and a better outcome for me.
I have also been bushwalking for many years and most of them without a PLB- but now the technology is about and accessible for most ($) why not.... it surely doesn't detract from a wilderness experience- its not as if you pull it out of your pack and look at it every 5 minutes deciding if you want that chopper lift home. Keep it in your pack and hope you never have to use it- thats my attitude.

Lizzy wrote:they will just find me with a PLB a lot quicker than you and probably with less risk to them and a better outcome for me.

That's the beauty of them and now you can go one step further with one of these if you want....
http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-i ... tphone.php

With these you know they've received the SOS.

So many options. Pretty soon, as I think Ent once mentioned, our electronics will weigh more than our other gear!

Onestepmore wrote:So many options. Pretty soon, as I think Ent once mentioned, our electronics will weigh more than our other gear!

PLB, GPS, mobile, Camera & lenses, spare batteries . . . if I take all the lenses, it already does.

wildernesswanderer wrote:
So you have fallen off cliffs, split your head open etc...what next? So when you fall off the cliff and break a leg and can't walk what then....

Nearly got bitten by a snake this weekend at Lerderderg.

wildernesswanderer wrote:It's a simple safety device and I do think for the cost of one and the things that can go wrong it is stupid not to carry them.

I do not deny that it is a safety device, and if you want to be as safe as possible, that its a good idea to carry one.

What I dispute is you calling my decision to NOT carry one every trip as being a stupid decision.

wildernesswanderer wrote:I will always carry one, don't think I'll ever use it but when I go on solo hikes at least my wife knows I have it and can use it if something goes wrong, her piece of mind alone out weighs the hassle of carrying one or buying one....

On solo hikes, I leave details of my trip with my partner, with contact dates (eg, when I will call next, etc).

If I am in an area that has some mobile coverage, I will SMS my partner when I can to let her know of any changes to my trip, and to let her know I am fine.

If I am in an area that has no coverage, I will consider a few variables.

#1 - How busy is the area. EG, what is the chance of meeting others.
#2 - How familiar with the area am I?
#3 - What are the main dangers associated with the area?
#4 - Route complexities (off track, unmarked routes, etc)

If these give me little room to get out in the case of an emergency, or mean that I will be at more risk than a simpler trip, then I will consider using a beacon.

That said... my decision not to use one is a personal one. Its something that I have done my entire life (before beacons were commercially obtainable), and personally, I don't think its a "stupid" decision at all.

Lizzy wrote:

Onestepmore wrote:I have to agree that the peace of mind for the wife (wether at home or out walking as well) is more mportant than the extra weight of carrying one. (only those married will appreciate this!)

Lizzy wrote:

ryantmalone wrote:I don't go to remote areas because I know that I can get an airlift out if things go wrong

I don't think too many of us have this attitude.. but lets face it if you are a responsible walker you will have left plans with someone and they will alert authorities if you do not turn up.... so in comes the helicopter search party. The only differece is they will just find me with a PLB a lot quicker than you and probably with less risk to them and a better outcome for me.
I have also been bushwalking for many years and most of them without a PLB- but now the technology is about and accessible for most ($) why not.... it surely doesn't detract from a wilderness experience- its not as if you pull it out of your pack and look at it every 5 minutes deciding if you want that chopper lift home. Keep it in your pack and hope you never have to use it- thats my attitude.

Oh, I know that many don't have that specific opinion, was just associated with the point I was trying to make.

I always leave details with my partner, and in some cases, with the police. I also pack an extra day to two days food on longer hikes just in case. I know that if I were to break a leg, or be unable to walk for some reason, that I would be able to stick it out on my route for as long is needed to find me.

Again, like I said above, my decision to or not to use a beacon is based on a few points.

If I were to go to an area where there was no mobile coverage at all, and there was another danger of (as an example) falling off cliffs in difficult terrain, then I would consider hiring a beacon for a trip.

However, for a 3 day hike around Wilsons Prom, no. I would not consider using a Beacon.

For a hike down the overland track, no. I would not consider using a beacon.

And so on.

Not going argue a point but your thinking is, I'll be right won't happen to me, bit like drink drivers I guess, I'll be right won't get court or I wont kill someone.....

Telling people where you are going is pretty normal, but where exactly you are in a emergency you can't foretell them that, and I don't rely on mobile coverage, I don't rely on other people being around, I rely on myself to get home safely, and I'm afraid no matter how much you try to argue that you don't need one, the i'll be right attitude is stupid.

127hrs is a movie all about a guy that knew the area like the back of his hand, till he had to cut it off, wow a PLB would have been so much easier

wildernesswanderer wrote:127hrs is a movie all about a guy that knew the area like the back of his hand, till he had to cut it off, wow a PLB would have been so much easier

I thought the canyon he was in was too tight to allow a signal out?

wildernesswanderer wrote:Not going argue a point but your thinking is, I'll be right won't happen to me, bit like drink drivers I guess, I'll be right won't get court or I wont kill someone.....

Telling people where you are going is pretty normal, but where exactly you are in a emergency you can't foretell them that, and I don't rely on mobile coverage, I don't rely on other people being around, I rely on myself to get home safely, and I'm afraid no matter how much you try to argue that you don't need one, the i'll be right attitude is stupid.

127hrs is a movie all about a guy that knew the area like the back of his hand, till he had to cut it off, wow a PLB would have been so much easier

Since when did I say "she'll be right"? I know the risks. I've been doing this far too long to not know the risks, and I'm definitely not going to be told that they way that I enjoy the bush is comparable to a drink driver.

Sorry mate, that's downright offensive.

I have my views, I respect yours, I just don't think that it is right to say that my decision is "stupid" because you think it is.

As for your movie reference, it was a good movie. I know it well. The guy has made a great life for himself too. Ironically though, his arm could have been saved if he had have let someone know where he was, and when he was due back.

Some people choose to run for cover when it rains, get a raincoat or hold an umbrella. I choose to get wet. Sometimes.

OK I carry one.
But if I 'need' it will I be in any condition to be able to use it?
Its sods law. Theres going to be a lot of stuff more important than an PLB for most walks.

Rob A wrote:Theres going to be a lot of stuff more important than an PLB for most walks.

Yep. Like commonsense, good judgment, and good luck.

north-north-west wrote:

Rob A wrote:Theres going to be a lot of stuff more important than an PLB for most walks.

Yep. Like commonsense, good judgment, and good luck.

And THAT, I would say, would be "stupid" to go hiking without.

ryantmalone wrote: for a 3 day hike around Wilsons Prom, no. I would not consider using a Beacon. For a hike down the overland track, no. I would not consider using a beacon.

I have a PLB and an inReach Satellite device but I wouldn't use either on the situations mentioned here.
I often walk with mobile only.
It's an experienced walker's right to make the call, it's when an inexperienced walker knows no better that there's a problem.

stuey69 wrote:

ryantmalone wrote: for a 3 day hike around Wilsons Prom, no. I would not consider using a Beacon. For a hike down the overland track, no. I would not consider using a beacon.

I have a PLB and an inReach Satellite device but I wouldn't use either on the situations mentioned here.
I often walk with mobile only.
It's an experienced walker's right to make the call, it's when an inexperienced walker knows no better that there's a problem.

Exactly. I'll never say that someone shouldnt carry a beacon. Personally, I think that they are a great idea. If only these were as widely used in the 80's and 90's, or even further back!

It is based on experience though. If someone is comfortable with their mobile, then that's their call, just the same as if someone wanted to carry a beacon, its their call. No "stupidity" in it. Just experience and confidence.

Obviously none of you guys were ever Boy Scouts, you know "Be Prepared"

And to me experience means nothing, just because your experienced means what? you could never have a problem or a accident.. really

wildernesswanderer wrote:Obviously none of you guys were ever Boy Scouts, you know "Be Prepared"

And to me experience means nothing, just because your experienced means what? you could never have a problem or a accident.. really

Nope. Was never a boy scout. I learned everything I know through my 30 years of experience in the Australian bush improvising with what I had at my disposal at the time, which apparently means nothing.

ryantmalone wrote:[
It is based on experience though. If someone is comfortable with their mobile, then that's their call, just the same as if someone wanted to carry a beacon, its their call. No "stupidity" in it. Just experience and confidence.

I've been driving for a few years now, and I'm pretty confident when doing so. Does this mean I'll never be involved in an accident? I highly doubt it.

Strider wrote:

ryantmalone wrote:[
It is based on experience though. If someone is comfortable with their mobile, then that's their call, just the same as if someone wanted to carry a beacon, its their call. No "stupidity" in it. Just experience and confidence.

I've been driving for a few years now, and I'm pretty confident when doing so. Does this mean I'll never be involved in an accident? I highly doubt it.

No it does not. Actually, I the past 8 years or so, I've had more car accidents than I have had bush walking accidents. Should I carry a beacon whilst driving?

Again, this is how I do things. I'm well aware of the risks. I do believe I have covered this more than enough times already.

Tell me this though. Is a free climber "stupid" for not using a rope?

wildernesswanderer wrote:to me experience means nothing, just because your experienced means what? you could never have a problem or a accident.. really

Experience means nothing? now it's you being "silly".
Experience can mean a huge difference. It doesn't mean you can't have an accident, but it can mean you have the ability to understand and recognise situations that others less experienced couldn't.
And, on the boy scouts question ... I don't believe any of the very experienced climbers and hikers I know were boy scouts and I would trust their judgement and preparedness implicitly.
Everyone in life has the right to make choices, for whatever reason.

It's called 'survivorship bias' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias. The human brain has a blind spot when it comes to assessing risk. We're all optimists by nature and by training.

The docco Grizzly Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man shows a guy who spent years playing with grizzly bears, until one day they decided to play with him. It's fascinating to watch his rationalisations for a couple of the near-misses he had, and to hear his explanation that he understood the bears, they had some kind of rapport with him, and (in summary) that he felt he was somehow in control of the situation.

I wouldn't say not carrying a PLB was stupid. I would say it's a very human way to behave - but that's not a good thing.

and 'ive mentioned the example before of a trampiner in nz's tararuas who was extremely experienced with decades of experience in the outdoors who perished because he ignored the conditions and advice and continued on his tramp in appaling weather that lead to his death and the death of his tramping partner...

just look at bear grylls. goes on about what an expert he is, sure he's an experienced outdoors mand and experienced getting away with taking stupid risks...

ryantmalone wrote:

Strider wrote:

ryantmalone wrote:[
It is based on experience though. If someone is comfortable with their mobile, then that's their call, just the same as if someone wanted to carry a beacon, its their call. No "stupidity" in it. Just experience and confidence.

I've been driving for a few years now, and I'm pretty confident when doing so. Does this mean I'll never be involved in an accident? I highly doubt it.

No it does not. Actually, I the past 8 years or so, I've had more car accidents than I have had bush walking accidents. Should I carry a beacon whilst driving?

Depends where you're driving...

We can perhaps liken this argument to having car insurance. You might never use it, but you'll be very glad you've got it if you do.

i've had to be helicoptered out due to an injury before,
this was before the age of personal locator beacons sat radios or even handheldcell phones and we didnt ahve a radio.
I remember how lucky i felt at the time, circumstances combined to mean i was airlifted out after only a three hour wait, the trip i was on, just about any other day i would ahve been waiting several days for someone to get out to raise the alarm. on one day in partcular the bush was so thick a helicopter ould ever have found us without locator beacon technlogy, there were no open spaces within easy reach of our location.
thats teh only time i've needed to be medivaced. but it only takes one mis step and you find you need help urgently, doesnt matter how good you are, one trip i was on , someone slipped and fell on top of another guy causing him to be concussed either from the person hitting him or hitting his head on rock.
theres always something beyond your control out there that can lead you to needing a beacon. sure if your'e experienced you're less likely to end up needing one but in my experience it certainly doesnt preclude you from being in a situation were one could be a big help... and possibly a life saver.

I just think if there is a possibility I might need outside assistance then I have a real obligation to make it easy for them.
The search party wandering about in the dark putting their own lives at risk, the chopper burning expensive fuel taken away from other tasks, the taxpayer paying for all this.
Not to mention the family stressing over whether they should contact emergency services if you are late returning.
If I can make the rescue process simple and efficient by advertising my precise location for a cost of a PLB (which I can afford) then it is a no-brainer.

Let me be clear here. I'm definitely not saying that people shouldn't carry a PLB, they are a great thing to carry for those who want to be as safe as possible, I'm just highlighting that it is a personal choice, and a choice that needs to be based on a combination of factors, including above all else, experience.