Optimum tent design – facts versus fallacies and preferences

[Ent]

After finding out that Hilleberg engages in retail price maintenance and the confusion with Campsaver (and by the looks of It Moosehead) about do not ship bans to Australia, Hilleberg as a brand has lost its shine for me. Still very well designed and built expensive tents with the price been maintained by Hilleberg supply contracts. But as I am strongly free market orientated time to look at alternatives rather than past approach of scanning the Hilleberg catalogue for the tent that matches my desires and ordering it with not too much thought for alternative brands. Sure, where there was a weakness in their range, such as lighter tents, I looked at other brands and wound up with the strangest of beast, the MSR Nook for lighter weight camping.

I tend to look what is out there in gear and then develop a “need” for features rather than first look at what my requirements are and then find the option with the best mix of features to meet them. Strangley, I use the last approach in the work part of my life and then chuck this logic out and buy like any fashion victim in my leisure hours. I currently have no single person tent so that is what I am, or was, looking at when I attempted to order a Hilleberg Soulo from Campsaver. For the record even the Soulo is too short to be ideal for me but then so is every single person winter tent that I have looked at. My main requirement is a mid-winter solo tent.

So lets look at tent features that use to or still do sit high on my list in light of experience. On the internet you will no doubt find reports on how important a feature is for various reasons but I am using the narrower sample of tent experiences of people that I know rather than the whole wackey internet world.

Pole sleeves.

This is one of Hilleberg’s standard designed features with the sleeves being designed to be punctured by a broken pole and not compromise the protection provided by the fly. Also designed big enough to be doubled poled. Noble enough gaol but have I or anyone I have known spoken about personally double poled a tent or experienced a broken pole apart from the one that they trode on? The simple answer is no. Yes, technically the arguments for such a system make sense but practically it falls into the rather remote series of events. I have removed that from my personal list of features that I require.


Self supporting design.

Though at time it has been a challenge I have always managed to get my ex Akto, Nallo and Kaitum up which are designs that require pegs. However, one of the few features I like on My Mountain Design Kaon and MSR Nook is the ability to pitch the tent and then go looking for a spot to bolt it down to. A self supporting design is a pleasure to use on platforms. The question is how self supporting a design is a requirements? Hilleberg make designs that the vestibule self support while the MD Kaon and MSR Nook, Hubba Hubba Plus require the vestibule to be peg out.

When in Sweden travelling by boat to Finland I was struck by a few things. How bland Swedish food was, think baby food. How quickly paralytically drunk the Sweds got when in duty free zones , and the huge number of islands in a benign sea that there were. Seeing this I can fully understand why kayaking out to a remote rock to pitch a tent is a big activity in Sweden. Sweden has an amazing coast for this activity. Been solid rock a self supporting vestibule makes great sense. But in Tassie doing the same means in the middle of night being swept of your rock and setting sail for NZ.

So self support design or not? My perfect tent would be self supporting but that adds weight so maybe two tents with the self supporting design being used on places hard to find pegging points is the ideal solution. Given I use my Nallo for most trips then the solo tent can be a largely self supporting design. I do not consider a self-supporting vestibule a requirement.

Separate and integral pitch.

I use my Hillebergs with the groundsheet always attached and it is dead easy to get the tents up in pouring rain with the inner remaining dry. At Daisy Lake it rained so hard that deep pools formed on the Kaitum as I was laying it out but the interior remained dry. By contrast the Kaon is a nightmare to pitch in heavy rain with the inner getting completely socked. The complex MSR Nook is equally a nightmare when pitched inner then outer but with the ground sheet it can be pitched outer then inner, just that this is more a hassle, for me. But a friend with a MSR Hubba Hubba Plus can quickly do this and keeps the fly separate from the inner to make for a drier night’s sleep on subsequent days.

Over splitting the inner and outer I actually with the Hillebergs never done this in the field as it is rather fussy to do with frozen hands and instead always used the integral pitch approach. Only once did I regret not splitting the inner as on one night after two days of pouring rain and relentless snow the inner was soaked through and a cold wet night’s sleep followed and that is where I found the low end of the Nallo a very poor design feature as water ran down it onto the end of my sleeping bag.

Now the above mentioned issues of an inner then out pitch tent wetting problems has had a technological wildcard added. One Planet use a very good DWR coating on their inners and suggest that this can fend of the rain and snow until the outer is pitched over it. I must admit I was sceptical but saw a fellow walker with a Gondie do this in snow and it worked well.

So what is my requirement ? Well One Planet Gondie suggests I should not be so concerned over inner then outer pitch. But I do like, but actually never used, the fly only pitch approach. Be fair to say that if the inner can go up quickly enough and the fly on then not such an issue.

O’well to avoid this post becoming a novel I will leave it there for the moment.

Cheers

[Stibb]

Why don't you design your own tent and have someone whip it up for you (Terra Rosa perhaps?)? You'll get the perfect size with all the details and features you're looking for. No more worries...

[Son of a Beach]

Integral pitch is the only one of those features that I'd like to have, but I still think it's overrated. It's more of a convenience than a necessity, and more about being easy to pitch than about staying dry. Although I may be just trying to justify my non-integral-pitch-tent ownership to myself.

My inner tent does get wet before the fly goes on when pitching in the rain, but it's not a big deal. The water mostly runs off soon afterwards, and what's left doesn't seem to soak through (and dries off overnight if the weather is breezy or warm). If a few drips get on the floor of the tent (through the mesh sections?) I give it a quick wipe before setting up the bed.

[stepbystep]

have I or anyone ..... or experienced a broken pole apart from the one that they trode on? The simple answer is no.

Our group had 2 broken poles on a trip this season and I had a pole break on my Mountain Hardware tent due to wind in the South Pictons a cpl years ago. So the less simple answer is yes.

Integral Pitch is a no brainer for me, I'd like an 'integral pitch' footprint for the Scarp to complete the deal on that tent.

[walkinTas]

I'd really like to hear from someone who has tried both approaches under adverse conditions. How much drier / better / convenient is integral pitch?

[stepbystep]

I'd really like to hear from someone who has tried both approaches under adverse conditions. How much drier / better / convenient is internal pitch?

I've had both, I only ever take the integral pitch Scarp now now due it's ease of pitch, especially in high wind. A basic pitch can be done in less than 2 mins no matter how bad the conditions. I've always had visions of my fly disappearing into the neighboring valley on my other tent.

[Son of a Beach]

I have both, and have to agree with SBS. The integral pitch is MUCH easier and quicker to set up. I still prefer my non-integral-pitch tent for most walks, but that's for unrelated reasons (mostly because it's less than half the weight). But the lack of integral pitch is not a problem with getting wet, in my experience with my current tent (although it sure was with my old tent which would just soak up any rain that landed on the inner).

Modern tent inner fabrics should not hold water just from getting rained on for a couple of minutes.

[Strider]

I'd like an 'integral pitch' footprint for the Scarp to complete the deal on that tent.

There is no reason why you can't make one. But don't put holes in your Tyvek for the attachment points - it rips

[wayno]

mate of mine had a spot weld on an anodised alloy pole fail, it caused the socket to telescope in preventing seperate parts of the pole from being able to connect.

[Strider]

mate of mine had a spot weld on an anodised alloy pole fail, it caused the socket to telescope in preventing seperate parts of the pole from being able to connect.

I assume you mean aluminium? An alloy is a mixture of any two metals. This is another one of my pet hates

[wayno]

yes alloy pole. decent tents have alloy poles

[Moondog55]

I won't make design comments of my own; instead I suggest you read Roger Caffins pages on what makes good tent design for Australia. With experience and skill almost any tent can be used but some are much better than others.
I have a preference for integral pitchand external frames myself

[Strider]

yes alloy pole. decent tents have alloy poles

What are they, brass?

[Nuts]

I won't make design comments of my own; instead I suggest you read Roger Caffins pages on what makes good tent design for Australia. With experience and skill almost any tent can be used but some are much better than others.
I have a preference for integral pitchand external frames myself

I think he has a tent in the works. Wouldn't sell one to ent though, he'd have to put 20% on so he could take it off. Clever marketing techniques would be price fixing Never mind China, he'd have to pull one from his Uranus factory...

[wayno]

yes alloy pole. decent tents have alloy poles

What are they, brass?

aircraft alloy,

[wayno]

an alloy of aluminium

[Strider]

an alloy of aluminium

Fairo!

[Ent]

Interesting the array of broken tent poles that abound. Be interested to see what brands and designs they relate to and did the damage the fly.

[norts]

I broke one on a WE 1st Arrow, no damage to the tent - I think it was user(me) abuse. Didnt seat the the 2 section properly.

Roger

[paddlpop]

I don't believe there's an optimal design...horses for courses which is why I have 9 of them
Depends on whether its for a few nights or a base camp or solo or with another...blah blah.
Lean towards the integral pitch for solo work but then in a pair it can handy go offload the fly and pegs. Let me know when you make the perfect tent and I'll put the others on eBay!

[mtrain]

I love tents that pitch either integral or outer first. The number of times I have been able to climb inside in all my wet gear and organise myself, maybe a warm drink or some food and then set up a nice dry inner and get in sleeping bag has been many.
The southern range and PB we did it every day for a week and it was awesome. No way we could have kept anything dry otherwise.
It might depend a little on what conditions you will walk in versus trying to wait it out or going home, but sometimes if your out for a while and you get a bad patch of weather it makes it so much easier.
I won't buy a tent that doesn't have this feature, the other thing it does is makes it easier to filter through the ridiculous number of tents on the market.
The free standing thing is nice but I don't worry about it too much because in a storm you still have to secure the freestanding tents down just as well.

[Ent]

Back to to requirements

Social conscience and respect for the laws of Australia

This is a very personal thing to me and one that is sadly extremely hard to achieve. I would not like to be in my brand new shelter to be viewing an imagine on my iPhone of the a dismembered leg from mother of two from a third world country that stitch my tent together sticking out from under the rubble of a substandard building nor from a regime that executed students when I was a student and yet to accept that such behavior is repugnant. Also as mentioned I am a strong believer in consumer law and free market so find it difficult to support companies that adopt business practices that are illegal under Australian consumer law. But others may be happy not to inquire nor concern themselves so rather than create ill will I will let them decided their own form of ethics on this matter and justify it with the style and hat that they see fit, if they so chose.

It is one of the major weakness of business is the consumer can not easily establish the provenance of a product. If we could then we would be in a better position to exercise control and maybe accept what is a fair price is required to achieve the personal level of social consciousnesses that we have. Instead I am forced to only exercise buying discretion when I become aware of dubious practices. It is pleasing though the concept of fair trade is gaining momentum. As said the level of social obligation is a personal thing and arguing about the level tends to be only divisive.

Solid inner verses mesh

The worst designed tent in my experience are ones that have mesh extending down into the zone that you sleep in. The inner might as well be all mesh and optimized for warm weather use. The MD Kaon is terrible as any breeze can freeze you as you attempt to sleep. The Nook at least has a "bathtub" to provide some protection but as I am after a winter tent unless the mesh can be closed off I find such designs uninviting. Bitter in the freezing use of the word has been my experience. Even small areas of no closeable mesh can make for an unpleasant experience. However having written this I unless under absolute extreme condition I prefer to vent the inner by opening up the panels however until the warmth of a sleeping bag and dry clothes has hit it is nice to close up the tent. So for me the design must have fully closeable panels to be considered a true four season tent.

With modern fabric there is a temptation for designers to use semi-breathable solid inners that are designed to reduce the weight and complexity of closeable panels. However experience in windy snow conditions with the One Planet Gondie suggest that you can have a very cold tent in those conditions. I prefer a solid inner to be largely that.

Vestibule space

It is been a trademark claim by Hilleberg that their vestibules are of sufficient size to the hold the packs of the number of rated occupants and still allow egress. It is a claim that I fully confirm as with all my Hilleberg I can store the number of 90 litres packs as occupants without compromising egress greatly. The MD Kaon is rated as a three person tent but I struggle to fit two packs in one vestibule and the third makes egress from the remaining vestibule difficult. The Nook though claims to be two people tent struggles to hold one 60 litre pack without being a pain to get an out of a tent. Vestibule space and design is critical point to me as I being tall and aging need room to move and also generally lug a 90 litre pack in winter. So my requirement is a vestibule suitable to store a 90 litre pack and not compromise too much the egress.


Livability in bad weather

Ok I mean cooking in a tent but as this aspect is universally condemned by tent companies so I do not expect to find a company claiming this anymore. But assuming that I am personally prepared to take on the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning and being shrinkwrapped then what do I look for? For me the vestibule is the critical as not even I would consider cooking in the main tent. Here a design that has a top vent that can be opened but still have a cap to stop rain plus a bottom vent is the go. This can be done by double ended zips and hoods. Though I stress that Hilleberg clearly state no cooking in their tent their designs generally have these features that I use. With the Nook opening the vestibule allows the weather in as does the Kaon. Given the strong message of not cooking in tents this might be a struggle to find.

The other aspect is not having a bed wetting design. It is pouring like mad outside but you need to go outside. A design that when you unzip the vestibule and allows water into the inner is not pleasant. Hillebergs appear to be particularly good at avoiding this mistake. The MD Kaon shows that it was designed by a Cafe-latta camper and is terrible. The Nook is reasonable with just enough overhang to avoid rain coming straight down but not when it has a bit of horizontal action going on. In the confined spaces of a solo tent this is even more a requirement that the design not be a bed wetter so hence a requirement of mine.

Cheers

[stepbystep]

Back to to requirements

Social conscience and respect for the laws of Australia

This is a very personal thing to me and one that is sadly extremely hard to achieve. I would not like to be in my brand new shelter to be viewing an imagine on my iPhone of the a dismembered leg from mother of two from a third world country that stitch my tent together sticking out from under the rubble of a substandard building nor from a regime that executed students when I was a student and yet to accept that such behavior is repugnant. Also as mentioned I am a strong believer in consumer law and free market so find it difficult to support companies that adopt business practices that are illegal under Australian consumer law. But others may be happy not to inquire nor concern themselves so rather than create ill will I will let them decided their own form of ethics on this matter and justify it with the style and hat that they see fit, if they so chose.

You own an iPhone and worry about this for your walking gear. Have a look at how and where your phone is made!

[wayno]

the pole spot weld failure was on a macpac olympus, but that was back in the eighties, wasnt my tent
my olympus has taken a battering in 100km gusts and had no probs.

[MJD]

Terra Nova - not much else to say .

[Moondog55]

Terra Nova - not much else to say .

Caddis XPD of course no longer made; so you know it was good

[Franco]

Terra Nova - not much else to say

What particular 4 season solo tent from terra Nova did you have in mind ?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Terra Nova - not much else to say

What particular 4 season solo tent from terra Nova did you have in mind ?

I can vouch for MJD using his Terra Nova Laser Comp. in Tasmania all year round.

[Spartan]

Integral-pitch or not, the age-old question. I've owned both sorts of tents, and have used them from FNQ (lots of rain, not much snow) through the Victorian High Country (some rain, some snow), through to SW Tassie (lots of rain and snow). To me it's a much-of-muchness as to which is better, with 'better' being a much used, fairly loose adjective. Considering the inner-first variety for a moment; 4 season tents are largely material, which has a tendency to repel rain for a few minutes, and it shouldn't take longer than a few minutes to peg the tent, erect the poles and throw the fly over. 3 season tents on the other hand are largely mesh, which does let in some water although a quick wipe down with my camping towel ordinarily remedies this situation fairly quickly.

I've always found that inner-first tents vent condensation more effectively, and are correspondingly cooler, than integral-pitch tents. Strangely, my current 4 season tent (a Snowgum 'Caddis') is inner-first, whereas my favourite 3 season tent (Mountain Hardware 'Drifter') is integral-pitch. Go figure

All the best.

[Moondog55]

How do you find the Snowgum version of the Caddis??

I do think it is one of the better"Bang for buck" tents on the market.