Bushwalk Australia

Hi all, my old cascade size 2 is too small both in volume and back length for the kind of walking I'm doing now so it's time to update. The current special is $330 for the Cascade 90L. Would there be anything of equal quality for a better price?
Cheers John

dunamis wrote:Hi all, my old cascade size 2 is too small both in volume and back length for the kind of walking I'm doing now so it's time to update. The current special is $330 for the Cascade 90L. Would there be anything of equal quality for a better price?
Cheers John

Doesn't the S2 have a volume of 65L? How much gear are you carrying exactly?

And I don't understand why/how your back length would change depending on what type of walking your doing?

I have a cascade 90ltr and as others have commented there tends to am issue with the hip belt not providing the support it should, putting extra stress on your shoulders. Certainly well made and a good pack horse for winter. I have a 90 ltr Lowe Alpine which is v similar and fits and carries better than the cascade. The Mont outback packs look pretty good too.

Personally the best harness I have found is One Planet but not sure without a lot of special hunting that your will find a McMillan or similar in that price range. The thing with One Planet is getting the correct harness for you as most shops tend to stock the best selling harness size fit for the pack size so in the 90 litre size the harness most common is for tall people. Just an observation on pack size. Generally I have found about 0.25 to 0.33 kilograms density to the go so a ninety litre pack fully pack can be 25 to 30 kilograms unless your load is a lot of bulk and not much weight. If you are capable and happy hauling that load then go for it else might be time to look at ways of reducing the bulk.

Cheers

You want to be a bit careful with overextending the Cascades harness size. Theres plenty of adjustment, but if you have too much of of the shoulder straps drawn down into the back it can play havock with the stays. Honestly Id try ot keep the adjustment to more than half out. Go up pack size for extra volume. If you are going to size three Im guessing you are six foot something with short legs? I dont have tickets on the pack but the harness, if you understand it, is about as good as ... probably the best out there. On the flats with 20-40kg loads Ive had the shoulder straps whispering off my shoulders as I walked. When it gets lumpy I can set it like an alpine pack limpert.

good brands here, you can get larger sizes of these, gives you an idea on their design and rating
berghaus also have a good harness system, and black diamond but black diamond only go up to 75 litres

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacks ... ws/ratings

Yeah I bought a size 2 without knowing what I was doing. I'm 6'2" and now that I'm walking with kids I'm carrying more gear. The one planets look great but nowhere near the $329 mark

dunamis wrote:Yeah I bought a size 2 without knowing what I was doing. I'm 6'2" and now that I'm walking with kids I'm carrying more gear. The one planets look great but nowhere near the $329 mark

Might be going the wrong way but I think Macpac harness size increases with the number and from memory I at 6' 3" found a size 4 the correct length. A size 2 then would be way too short putting the weight likely too much on the shoulders unless you have a short back. Yes One Planet packs are not cheap but a correctly fitted one is a joy, assuming that your body shape suits. If the price is too steep then Osprey seem to be well liked by their owners but I have never owned one myself. Main thing is to get good quality as I have seen too many packs fail in the harness to trust a brand sold cheap unless I have known it to perform well.

Cheers.

My last pack was a Macpac Cascade 75 litre, size 2. It got eaten.
My current pack is the same pack in size 3.
The harnesses seem the same to me, but size 3 is apparently a better fit. I must be close to borderline, I was okay with the size 2 when I had it.
Heaviest I have carried in it was 36 kilo at the start of a long walk (a lot of camera equipment as well).

Why not sell your size 2 pack in the Market Square & buy the size 3?

Another thought - these Cascade harnesses are quite adjustable, you could take your current pack into your local Macpac store & have them fit it to you, if you get someone that knows what they are doing it might be possible that you could gain new found comfort with your current pack. Or at least be advised whether the size 2 is definitely too small for you. And you can compare it with a size 3 while you are there, I would be surprised if the harnesses are different (apart from changes to a newer model, something I found, didn't affect it).

Good on you for getting your kids out amongst it, but sorry to hear that means you have to carry a 90 litre pack.

dunamis wrote:Hi all, my old cascade size 2 is too small both in volume and back length for the kind of walking I'm doing now so it's time to update. The current special is $330 for the Cascade 90L. Would there be anything of equal quality for a better price?
Cheers John

For Australian use, the only real competitor is the One Planet - generally thought to be a better design and quality but also at least $150 more.

The best pack is the one that fits the best. And therefore I would try on Wilderness Equipment, and Mont as well. They both make big packs but I think both are pricy.

I picked up a near new condition 5 year old Cascade in Size 3 on the marketplace here for ~$100 - but you might have to wait for one to come up.

Maelgwn wrote:

dunamis wrote:Hi all, my old cascade size 2 is too small both in volume and back length for the kind of walking I'm doing now so it's time to update. The current special is $330 for the Cascade 90L. Would there be anything of equal quality for a better price?
Cheers John

For Australian use, the only real competitor is the One Planet

Sorry but this is just plain incorrect. Yes OP is Macpac's main competitor when looking at manufacturers from this corner of the globe. But for use in Australia it makes not one scrap of difference which brand of high quality pack you choose.

what makes OP packs so much better than all the other highly rated packs out there used happily by countless thousands of people?

Sounds like the "Australian made for Australian conditions" type argument to me. As though Australian conditions are somehow harsher than everywhere else on Earth. Patriotism gone wrong?

nah, more like aussies are harder on their gear than the rest of the world

wayno wrote:nah, more like aussies are harder on their gear than the rest of the world

That's true to a point.
It's a case here of having several packs to suit the conditions.
If I'm going into banksia heath at Kanangra Boyd in NSW or roughing it in Tassie then my original Macpac Ravine 75 litre pack will do nicely thanks.
If I'm on open (wide) tracks something like an Osprey Exos 58 will do the trick nicely.
Osprey have beautiful harnesses and at 1.2kg, the Exos 58 is a good piece of kit.

Strider wrote:Sounds like the "Australian made for Australian conditions" type argument to me. As though Australian conditions are somehow harsher than everywhere else on Earth. Patriotism gone wrong?

One Planet has a few things that endear themselves to a loyal base.

1. Multiple harness fits and pack lengths so you get the best chance of fit for you. One Planet's market base is actually the industrial market where say for a Uni Research team of ten individuals of all shapes and sizes turn up looking to be kitted out they need to be able to fit them and you have OH&S concerns that the fit is right so no "suck it up princesses" type hogwash. Being at the extreme end of the size range I appreciate this and wish people that want to enforce "standard" sizing be forced for a ten day walk to wear boots two sizes too small before condemning a large size range as overkill. Yet to see any other pack company match that. Sure a few have different back lengths but One Planet also deal with different chest sizing. As for adjustment One Planet I told they reduced the adjustment for the sternum strap so if it feels like it is chocking you then it is an indication that you have the wrong harness. For example I am a long back length with a "large" chest fitting. A beanpole could have the same back length but medium chest fitting. Having dodged major back surgery I am probably a bit hyper sensitive to harness fit. I brought a McMillan with the right back length but wrong chest straps and One Planet was great to deal with to get the correct sizing. The biggest challenge for a buyer is getting through to a retail shop that such options exists. Some are very good and other very bad, all depends on who you strike in the shop. Regardless of all the options if you have the wrong harness then no amount of adjustment is going to make it perfect for you. I think that the OP might not be looking had the seller shown more care on getting the correct fitting.

2. Huge range of material types. The classic One Planet pack is the MacMillan. It is armored at the bottom and mine has survived undamaged many trips but it at 3.5 kilograms very heavy. I also have a Shadow in light canvas and it is brilliant but not a pack to pack haul or plan to use for off track wander as it will soon be damaged. Basically you can chose what suits your style of walking best and your perception of what you want from a pack. The toughest pack is probably the Stiletto as it is intended for rock climbing type walks.

3. One Planet packs are largely made in Australia. This means repairs are done quickly. Now for repairs this can involve removing a complete panel and reinstating it so the pack is as new or simple patch fitting. This level of repair service is hard to find with most packs having to be patched repaired by local sail makers etc. I believe One Planet started off as a gear repairer and by seeing what went wrong decided "I can do better than that". Products that I love tend to have that approach where a person looking for something decides that they can do better and makes it themselves.

All the above adds to the price and at the end of the day it is up to individuals to decide if the above is worth the price. For me it is as I have very comfortable packs that can be as tough as I need or as light as I want (but sadly not both) with the ability to have them repaired. In a way brands like Hilleberg, Western Mountaineering, and Tarptent have a similar background and assuming that their design philosophy suits you then price is not so much an issue. If price is important then yes there are are great range out there but as I have seen when crossing the OLT more than a few cheaper brands have failed on their first day out. Often it is a case of you get what you pay for (less discounts half price discounts on discounts on discount on special pricing, etc )

Cheers

i'm starting to see why OP owners rave about them...

We have a Mungo.. well, i'm sure its around here somewhere.. Yep great pack, they are built to take a decent load. As the OP has said, even that is out of the price range. Perhaps start a OP topic? I can show off one that I modified Our cheap as chips Lowe Alpine packs look as good as new, they'e done many OLT trips, more than adequate for that walk. In fact all but the cheapest pack would do for many people (so long as they don't overload them..) anyhow.. i digress.

Oh.. just to say that i'd have to rate Crux for similar toughness and clean design, I haven't used it much but some things are obvious. Nothing as beefy as the OP harness however, I don't think they make such a large model and not built for carrying luxuries (but Much lighter).

Ent wrote:

Strider wrote:Sounds like the "Australian made for Australian conditions" type argument to me. As though Australian conditions are somehow harsher than everywhere else on Earth. Patriotism gone wrong?

One Planet has a few things that endear themselves to a loyal base.

Yes I understand all that, but you've gone way off topic. None of this says they are the only pack (other than Macpac) suitable for Australian use. Yes they are good packs, but there are literally hundreds of other options also.

I'd have a look at Mont packs also.

I liked mine but foolishly bought the wrong harness size. If you like the look of the Mont Flyte PM me and I can give you one on the cheap.

the aarn pack owners must be all asleep , i'd expect at least one of them to start singing their praises....

I'd go for Osprey, the Aether (85 L) can be found in the US for 300 $, and Amazon.com delivers Osprey products to Australia (unlike CampSaver).

Globetrekker have the Osprey Aether 85 for A$332 with free postage. Why would you buy overseas.

I have the Aether 70 and am very happy with it, and they have a lifetime warranty.

This guy does a very good review on them...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4JPiklpZ1A

Strider wrote:

Ent wrote:

Strider wrote:Sounds like the "Australian made for Australian conditions" type argument to me. As though Australian conditions are somehow harsher than everywhere else on Earth. Patriotism gone wrong?

One Planet has a few things that endear themselves to a loyal base.

Yes I understand all that, but you've gone way off topic. None of this says they are the only pack (other than Macpac) suitable for Australian use. Yes they are good packs, but there are literally hundreds of other options also.

I thought I said there are many other options, just care is needed to make sure that they can handle the load. Respected brands like Lowe Alpine are good, I have one as with Detuer. Osprey Packs as I mentioned have a good reputation but I have not owned one. There are very brand loyal Mont and Wilderness Equipment owners happy with their packs. My favorite pack for mountain bike riding is a 38litre Mountain Design Slipstream. But all this comes to nothing if the pack harness does not suit the carrier. The lighter the load the less critical the harness, well at least in my opinion. Up at the 90 kilogram level unless hauling lot of bulk and not much weight then as mentioned you will be 25-30 kilogram load and that places a lot of emphasis on harness that suits the owner. For completeness I will say that always be on the look out for lighter gear assuming that it can do the job you want it to.

Maybe you would like to add your favorite 90 litre pack that you own? Mine is the One Planet McMillan.

Cheers

Ent wrote:Maybe you would like to add your favorite 90 litre pack that you own? Mine is the One Planet McMillan.

I don't own any OP packs - obviously.

wayno wrote:the aarn pack owners must be all asleep , i'd expect at least one of them to start singing their praises....

No a few of us have cast our eyes over the thread, but given the size and quoted price range, there's nothing we can recommend that would fit the bill. Miyata610 is the person to give you a complete breakdown of the Aarn Load Limo (which is 90L) He uses his loaded up (and even overloaded) to the max. I do know he has tried a 90L Cascade and laughs when you mention it in comparison to the Aarn.

roysta wrote:

wayno wrote:nah, more like aussies are harder on their gear than the rest of the world

That's true to a point.
It's a case here of having several packs to suit the conditions.
If I'm going into banksia heath at Kanangra Boyd in NSW or roughing it in Tassie then my original Macpac Ravine 75 litre pack will do nicely thanks.
If I'm on open (wide) tracks something like an Osprey Exos 58 will do the trick nicely.
Osprey have beautiful harnesses and at 1.2kg, the Exos 58 is a good piece of kit.

"The conditions" are an essential consideration and people generally consider canvas the hardest wearing for off-track work. Those conditions will eventually start wrecking even a canvas pack.
For that canvas gear you have to grin and bear the extra weight of the pack and economise on the weight inside. In the big pack stakes, Macpac builds lighter packs than OP. I think this Aussie/Kiwi competition, (together with MDesigns,Wilderness and Mont), are the only, easily available canvas packs for the local market.
Most people opt for the high end importeds because they've yet to, or have no intention to head into the seriously bad off-track bush that really tests a pack for strength rather than lightness. This is why Aussie/Kiwi packs need to be considered in a class of their own, not for patriotism.
Seriously bad bush no doubt exists all over the world but in other bushwalking countries, tracked walking may be more common through force of the many more walkers who support track building and maintenance by their sheer numbers. Naturally, their prime interest is in the lightness of a pack.
Canvas' other advantage of course is it's relative water-proofness, especially important in Tassie/NZ.
So, packs for courses. Il faut choisir...

canvas weighs a tonne when its wet, if you use a waterproof pack liner you don't need canvas to reduce water getting through the pack. save more weight with nylon

wayno wrote:canvas weighs a tonne when its wet, if you use a waterproof pack liner you don't need canvas to reduce water getting through the pack. save more weight with nylon

A fair point for anyone who doesn't encounter scrub like what Tassie has to offer on (and off) so many tracks.
Walking in to Wineglass Bay and Cooks Beach for example, quite a bit of a different demand on your pack to doing, say, the South Coast track.

tasadam wrote:

wayno wrote:canvas weighs a tonne when its wet, if you use a waterproof pack liner you don't need canvas to reduce water getting through the pack. save more weight with nylon

A fair point for anyone who doesn't encounter scrub like what Tassie has to offer on (and off) so many tracks.
Walking in to Wineglass Bay and Cooks Beach for example, quite a bit of a different demand on your pack to doing, say, the South Coast track.

Not necessarily my Mont Flyte is 1000 denier nylon and I've dragged it through the Arthurs and offtrack through the Denisons/Stepped Hills and it's in pristine condition.
Personally I think a thicker nylon is very good against abrasion.