Bushwalk Australia

G'day all,

Wondering how effective the Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor sleeping bag liners are.

I am going to Kozzie very soon, only camping one night which is at at Ramshead, but my sleeping bag is rated to -1 degree (comfort ratingEN), so I am weighing up using one of the Thermolite Reactor liners to increase the warmth of my sleeping bag. That or buy another sleeping bag rated to -10 or similar, but will never have much use for it. Whereas the Thermolite Reactor I could also use as a summer weather bag by itself. Seems more versatile the way.

Cheers

Go the better sleeping bag or a second light bag. Another 250grams of down would be far more efficient. The liner is cheap but you wont get the advertised comfort.

If you want maximum warmth for weight and buck at around zero degrees or lower how about adding a vapour barrier liner like this? http://www.adventureracegear.com.au/online-store/accessories/sol-emergency-bivvy/

Basic description here http://sectionhiker.com/vapor_barrier_clothing/

If your bag has a comfort level of -1°C then it might have a lower limit level of -8°C. In which case it will probably be fine, with thermals on if needed. The lowerlimit level is what people usually use to describe the rating of sleeping bags. Assuming the EN standard. A famous American bag maker however, uses a mythical rating system based on loft. You can ignore that.

As to the Reactor liner.....

It has been discussed in other threads. I use one. I like it. It does add warmth, but not as much as a bivy. I like the fact that it's stretchy, so it's more comfy than other liners. I sometimes find that it alone makes a reasonable bag on warmer nights.

Our Arroyo bags are rated to EN standards, comfort rated to -1c. They're ok to -3/4c with help.. we supplied the Thermolite liner with them for a while but they were generally still not considered warm enough... any colder they wouldn't definitely not be my choice (and personally I sleep quite warm).

Nuts wrote:Our Arroyo bags are rated to EN standards, comfort rated to -1c.

I think that's the lower limit, not comfort. The comfort rating is 4°C.

This is the confusion..... We're not all using the same terminology.

I bought one of these last year with the idea that I could leave my heavy -9 bag at home and use my light +7 bag for winter in non-alpine sth Aus regions like Mt Cole and Little Desert with minimum temps above 0. It was supposed to add +7 to my bag rating or something.
Don't bother. It added at best 2 degrees to the bag rating. Of course all bag ratings are relative but it was less than going from sleeping in silk Pajamas to thermals as an example.
Last time I tried it I ended up sleeping in fleece-lined water-proof pants I was so cold.
Miracle solutions are, unfortunately, just more fairy dust.
If you do buy one please make sure you test it out safely before relying on it as a solution.

Steve

Miyata610 wrote:

Nuts wrote:Our Arroyo bags are rated to EN standards, comfort rated to -1c.

I think that's the comfort limit, not comfort. The comfort rating is 4°C.

This is the confusion..... We're not all using the same terminology.

I think you mean Lower Limit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537

Correct (but whatever lol) - Arroyo, Lower Limit -0.7 'The number is based on a standard man at the lowest temp to have a comfortable nights sleep..' I assumed that bauplenut is a bloke.

Extreme — the minimum temperature at which a standard woman can remain for six hours without risk of death from hypothermia (though frostbite is still possible).

Err wot?

I think you mean Lower Limit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537

Ah yes you're right. I'll call it lower limit from now on.

So..... Did the original poster mean comfort rating or lower limit rating?

Quick reply....

waste of time in my opinion. I didn't notice much.

Buy a warmer bag or a second bag to add to existing sleep system.

I'd also recommend doing a site search... this topic has been done many times over...

search.php?keywords=+%2Bthermolite++%2Breactor++

Miyata610 wrote:It has been discussed in other threads. I use one. I like it. It does add warmth I like the fact that it's stretchy, so it's more comfy than other liners. I sometimes find that it alone makes a reasonable bag on warmer nights.

I agree with this.

Many years ago Chouinard Equipment [now Black Diamond] made an overbag from a very similar construction, it has always been my opinion that overbags are far more effective despite the weight and bulk penalty.
Given the latest decrease in fabric weight and fineness of weave [windproofing] I think it is past time lightweight overbags were re-investigated my some of the major makers; I do not consider the PHD overbag to be lightweight.
Anybody joining me at Falls Creek this winter is invited to trial my own home made overbag to feel the real benefits

Thanks all for your input. Very insightful.

My current bag -1 rating was the lower limit EN rating (for male).

Notice forecast is snow mid next week !

bauplenut wrote:Wondering how effective the Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor sleeping bag liners are.

They're crap, way below the suggested temp saving.
Just go with a better rated bag.

Pace 'Roysta', whilst the S2S claim about the extra warmth these liners add might be crap, the liner itself isn't. I always use mine as it adds a degree or two in sleeping comfort. More important to me, however, is that it keeps my sleeping bag clean(er). And as 'Miyata' pointed out earlier, you might find this liner to be more 'stretchy' and comfortable than a standard silk equivalent (it's also much easier to wash).

All the best.

Needs a 4 season mat or 10mm CCF under his existing mat.

I have a reactor liner they help a bit but no substitute for a proper mat & sleeping bag.

Go a better sleeping bag or if your sleeping bags got a bit of room keep it and get a hooded down jacket put it on.inside plus its great outside too.

Go a hooded down jacket.

A bag liner will certainly make things warmer, but I am skeptical of the claimed 14C improvement (I notice they phrase it "up to")

Probably the best way of extending the warmth of your bag is to look at the R-value of your sleeping mat. A CCF in combination with another pad can extend the insulating value of your mat system at low cost.

Wearing plenty of clothes to bed is another way of staying warm - but dry clothes only.

Vapor barrier liners keep your body moisture from condensing in the insultation of the bag. They can certainly stop the degradation of down bag performance on a multi-day trip in cold conditions, but I'm not sure how much warmth they actually ADD.

Another technique is to heat some water before bed, and then turn your regular water bottle into a hot water bottle (best wrapped in a sock or the like to prevent direct contact with your skin).

If they're all synthetic, then you're adding to breathability problems, something that makes silk liners such a gift. Magic material, badly underestimated. Keeping the bag a bit cleaner and you, warmer.

madmacca wrote:A
Vapor barrier liners keep your body moisture from condensing in the insulation of the bag. They can certainly stop the degradation of down bag performance on a multi-day trip in cold conditions, but I'm not sure how much warmth they actually ADD.

They do add significant warmth on their own (plenty of discussion on the web) primarily by preventing heat loss by evaporative cooling. The effect is quite noticeable.

But I would 'guess' they would add 3oc to 5oc at best and all else being equal (separate to the preservation of down benefit) - a long way from the S2S liner's claim of 14oc (which appears to be bollocks).

Spartan wrote:Pace 'Roysta', whilst the S2S claim about the extra warmth these liners add might be crap, the liner itself isn't. I always use mine as it adds a degree or two in sleeping comfort. More important to me, however, is that it keeps my sleeping bag clean(er). And as 'Miyata' pointed out earlier, you might find this liner to be more 'stretchy' and comfortable than a standard silk equivalent (it's also much easier to wash).

All the best.

I agree with this, I find there is some increase in warmth but I doubt anything like 8 deg C. They have a cosier feel and
I can turn over in it without becoming entangled and I don't end up wound up in the sleeping bag with the zipper in my face
when I wake up.

I sleep in a poly zip neck thermal top and merino thermal pants with merino wool socks (clean dry ones).

madmacca wrote:Probably the best way of extending the warmth of your bag is to look at the R-value of your sleeping mat.

+1 on that, but then I have 5 sleeping bags and 3 mats, so the combinations are all covered.

Spartan wrote:Pace 'Roysta', whilst the S2S claim about the extra warmth these liners add might be crap, the liner itself isn't. I always use mine as it adds a degree or two in sleeping comfort. More important to me, however, is that it keeps my sleeping bag clean(er). And as 'Miyata' pointed out earlier, you might find this liner to be more 'stretchy' and comfortable than a standard silk equivalent (it's also much easier to wash).

All the best.

Ditto - I use one in cooler weather instead of my silk liner for bag cleanliness, but don't feel it adds much warmth at all.

Son of a Beach wrote:I'd also recommend doing a site search... this topic has been done many times over...

search.php?keywords=+%2Bthermolite++%2Breactor++

This.