neoshell rain jacket review

[wayno]

managed to buy a westcomb neoshell shift jacket at $200 off.

http://www.gearbuyer.com/products/westc ... -mens.html

took it for a spin walking up and down steep hills for an hour in the rain, temp 15 degrees wind gusting around 60k's in exposed parts of the walk, other places, light winds.. humidity 99%
pretty good. no sweat buildup. mind you it wasnt hot... even on my back where i had a wet pack there was only a moderate amount of condensation....
no clammy feeling at all in my base layer.... definitely about as breathable a jacket as i've ever worn and arguably the most breathable...
it was blowing pretty strong on top of teh hill and i felt a bit cold in the wind, some people think its because the neoshells let through more air than other rain shells, reviewers often comment about how they feel colder in neoshells than other jackets
the DWR worked great, water just ran straight off....
one issue with neoshells is the hydrostatic head waterproof rating is 10,000m, dropping to 5,000mm over time, cant remember how many washes they said, at least 20,
5.000mm arguably isnt fully waterproof any more or storm proof, at that rating you'd call it highly water resistant...
i was also wearing a gore tex peak cap.. at the end of the walk, the peak cap was saturated inside. i didnt feel hot or feel like i was sweating a lot in the cap so i was surprised about that, it may be an indicator of the difference in breathability between the neoshell and gore tex

the shift is just over 300gm, so i wouldnt recommend if if you're going scrub bashing, and only a napoleon pocket on it. so its not a bells and whistles jacket, westcomb have a couple of other neoshell models with more features.... the switch and the apoc and there are a couple of womens versions as well.. the apoc still only weighs in at half a kilo.
no vents on the shift but there are on the other models which would make them good for warmer climbs given its high breathability...

from what i've read, teh non air permeable waterproof membranes can't breathe in high humidity, they rely on lower humidity outside the jacket to enable the moisture to move through the membrane, whereas air permeable membranes can still let moisture out especially when there is wind to help carry the moisture through the membrane,
this may explain why the gore tex hat was still wet inside when the jacket was dry.

westcomb gets good reviews for the quality of its clothing, has the highest stitch count of any outdoorwear... good replacement warranty if you have paid full retail price... they will still honour the warranty on any clothes bought at sale if you want to pay westcomb the difference between the full price...

i'll be testing it out in tropical climates in sept...

[simonm]

Thanks Wayno. Always good to read others experience with gear.

[ninjapuppet]

Thats awsome Wayne!

Ive got a Shift LT, which looks awefully similar to that one in your link. Yours say its a Shift.
On the westcombe page, i cant seem to find the shift, so is yours last years model no longer on their webpage? or is it actually the same jacket?
http://shopwestcomb.com/mens-clothing/hardshell-jackets.html
awesome jacket by the way! i cant believe you picked it up for that price. Whoever is a size large really should grab the last one on sale!

[wayno]

it is the shift LT hoody
they call it a hoody, there is a slight stretch in the fabric, some classify it as a softshell hoddy,
i'd say it's more like a hardshell jacket, your average softshell has more stretch in it and is usually a heavier fabric...
http://shopwestcomb.com/mens-clothing/h ... hoody.html

i got mine when it was on sale at backountry,,
interesting, its a relatively new jacket yet it was a clearance item,
I'm guessing some shops get the new stuff in and if they can't shift it in the no's they want then they get rid of it ....

[slparker]

Hi Wayno,
You wrote: 'the non air permeable waterproof membranes can't breathe in high humidity' - I expect that it's every time it rains...

I get that - I have been comparing a couple of jackets on rainy daywalks recently. Over a couple of 13 degree rainy days (ie when it's pelting down) I've used a Mountian Hrdwear Paclite jacket and an Outdoor Research Mithril jacket, both with a goretex brimmed hat (so that I could unzip the top of the jacket). On arriving back the paclite was slick with sweat inside, my base was damp but I felt quite comfortable ( a little chilled descending the reverse slop of the hill that I was climbing) the Mithril jacket (which is a taped-seamed waterproof nylon softshell) felt damp inside but felt much more comfortable due to the brushed layer, despite the lack of pit zips I didn't feel too hot - even when climbing. I'm now deliberating which one to use on my next week long walk - I suspect that I'll try both out x-country skiing this winter to get a good feel for both fabrics and designs.
I also got a OR Mithrilite jacket on special which is a lightweight non fleeced 'softshell' (again taped seams and described as waterproof). The massive pitzips allow enormous ventilation options. I believe that it is not 'completely' waterproof (ie it wets out after time) but my experiance with gore-tex is that it too wets out after time and I'm wondering if I'm better of being warm, comfortable and wet in a softshell rather than warm, clammy and wet (and possibly chilled) in a waterproof....

[wayno]

also depends if he outside of the face fabric gets wetted out, that stops all breathability.
paclite is known to be less breathable than three layer gore tex. third layer sort of creates a wicking layer for he moisture to attach to and move towards the membrane.. wheras paclite all the moisture has to attach to is the face fabric so you end up with a sheet of water on the fabric on the inside....
and your mithrill can wick the moisture as well with its internal fabric...

[slparker]

Yeah, that makes sense - I felt drier in the Mithril and also had a short sleeved merino whereas in the paclite I had a long sleeved polypro. Usual;ly I feel much drier in a polypro. What I should have done is tested 'time to drying' or at least sat around for half an hour and see how I felt. That's the real test of a clothing system IMHO. Not how it feels when you're climbing and sweating but when you stop.

Now if the mithril had the same massive pitzips as the rest of the OR range it would be a very versatile jacket. I haven't weighed it but I suspect it would be heavier than most dedicated shells. Probably way too warm for 20 degree+ days, but then what shell wouldn't be?

Good luck with your neoshell in the tropics. I'm heading off to Malaysia in a couple of weeks. I'm walking up Mt kinabalu and I suspect I'm mystified as to what I'll use as a shell (probably paclite I imagine). In the lowlands I reckon I'd go without.

[wayno]

another issue as well, most two layer membranes have thin face fabrics, no insulation value, in cold weather water is more likely to condense on the inside of the fabric because its a lower temperature...

[slparker]

it's an interesting subject. I've looked at a few things online; from (?)Surka to Andy Kirkpatrick. Both seem to echo the point that moisture control is a big threat. I'm now totally averse to windproof membranes for any aerobic activity and I'm averse to waterproof membranes except in drenching rain. I've ordered a windshirt online and looking forward to trying that out. Cycling to work in the frost this morning wearing a garment with a windstopper front reinforced the familiar problem with membranes: feels cool when you start out, feels warm when you heat up, then you sweat, then you get wet, then you get cold....

maybe pertex IS the answer...

[tryangus]

Some of the lighter weight stretch-woven soft shells are a good option for cycling - they offer practical wind resistance (say 15CFM) whilst providing protection from the elements. You don't want 'windproof' as that is obviously going to impact upon breathability/moisture management.

Wayno, interested to hear how your DWR holds up. Have been using a Neoshell-based softshell for a little while and I've found it face fabric wets out abnormally quickly - I did hear some issues with some of the face fabrics used by TNF and Marmont in their new Neoshell garments with regards to DWR adhesion. Could be hearsay however and I have a dud jacket

[Zone-5]

Just how long does the DWR last on a Marmont?

[wayno]

the few occasions i have time to get out, it usually rains so hard here when i'm out, no DWR will hold up for long.
windstopper is expensive and defeats the purpose of having a breathable windbreaker by minimising is breathability, its for extreme weather conditions only really, anything less and its turns your clothing into a sweat box, you'd been pit zips in it to make windstoper jackets much use, a vest would be a more practical option if you want to use it,
and its not cheap for what it is, nothing with gore tex on the label is.

[beean]

I have a neoshell jacket myself.

I purchased a Rab Myriad jacket after deciding my Arcteryx Alpha SL wasn't up to the job.

The dead bird used 2.5 layer Goretex Paclite, which I found to be swampy and not totally waterproof. Forearms would get soaked after hikes through snowy trees around freezing and the shoulders would be wet when climbing in rainstorms or under ice. DWR was non existent even after two factory recoats. No bueno.

So I bought the Rab, a 3L Neoshell jacket which is slightly stretchy, enough to be noticed and appreciated when doing big movements. I found the fabric to be slightly more breathable than my crappy TNF Windstopper softshell, which was a surprise. However, when downhill skiing or walking along windy ridges it is apparent that the fabric is not completely windproof and I can feel air moving under the jacket, however these are very windy conditions. I consider this a bonus as it keeps me cool.

As for the waterproofing, I've found this to be very adequate. Ice climbing under running waterfalls for sustained periods left me cold but dry. The DWR coating obviously failed under such a deluge but the fabric did not. Squalls that blow up do not overwhelm the DWR and the jacket remains breathable. I consider it a massive upgrade when compared to Gore-tex.

All that said, this isn't nearly breathable enough to do any sort of aerobic activity (e.g. skinning or hiking uphill for sustained periods) when temperatures are around freezing levels. It's not even enough for ski touring at -15, but I run very hot and just wear a thin baselayer and the thinnest softshell I could find. However it is fine for hiking on flat trails in the rain.

[wayno]

reviews I've read about neoshell agree that they can be colder than other membranes in prolonged severe cold storms. when the fabric hasn't wetted out I find it very breathable, less moisture buildup than I've experienced in windstopper. I was walking around in minus 6 temps in a strong wind and found I was getting pretty cold in it with a fleece vest underneath. a full jacket underneath would have helped this but possibly not completely.

[beean]

reviews I've read about neoshell agree that they can be colder than other membranes in prolonged severe cold storms. when the fabric hasn't wetted out I find it very breathable, less moisture buildup than I've experienced in windstopper. I was walking around in minus 6 temps in a strong wind and found I was getting pretty cold in it with a fleece vest underneath. a full jacket underneath would have helped this but possibly not completely.

Yup I've had the same experiences Wayno. It's a downside (feature?) to look out for.

I thought I'd add some additional comments.

Weather here has warmed up significantly as summer is on the way. I recently went on a 3 day hut based trip at around 2000m, with temps ranging from 4-20 degrees and daily snow and rain squalls. The humidity was low. The terrain was mostly flat, I think the most gain I had in a day was around 600m. I ended up walking a lot in my neoshell jacket. I found it breathed quite well, I feel I didn't sweat any more than I would have without it. Today I had the jacket on all day for a 20ish km walk to the car and I was comfortable in the periods of sunshine as well as the rain. Neoshell gets a big fat breathable stamp of approval from me.