Bushwalk Australia

As a family of avid travellers we have been involved in hiking and camping in increasingly severe weather conditions.
My teenage girls and wife have problems in the cold keeping their hands and feet warm.
My wife got frost bite on her toes last time we were in Nepal at high altitude in winter despite good gear. (Minus 25 celsius)

We are off to climb Kilimanjaro at the end of the year. We are doing the lessor used Northern Circuit over 8 days to help with altitude sickness. However it's like walking from the jungle to the arctic so clothing is an issue. We have tons of merino gear etc for layering. Just need some special hand and foot attention.

So can I get the expertise of this forum to help with suggestions for hand and footwear. I have been fine with two pairs of sockets and gloves. What have others used? Women seem to get cold so much easier.

Oh easy Outdoor Research Alti Mitts and La Sportiva Olympus Mons Evo.

BUt seriously =, nothing like a big pair of f^&* off mitts to slip your hands into if you are feeling a bit digitally vulnerable. I almost always carry a big pair of mitts in my top pocket. My spare set are an ultra lightweight pair from PHD but Macpac actually make some decent mitts at a reasonable cost

The thing with hands as well at higher altitudes, is to focus on some of the little things that add up. Are your wrists covered. Blood supply is close to the skin there an can lose heat. Consider thermals with thumb loops that help cover the wrist. Even more importantly are you adequately fed and hydrated. A muesli bar etc can often revitalise the ailing/cold climber.

As for feet. similar really. Are your boots big enough to allow adequate circulation and do you have dry socks. As you say, Kili is a hard one for boots with the extremes of temperatures. Still double boots are overkill. Sometimes you do just have to suffer. I would be looking at something along the lines of La Sportiva Trango with room some very thick socks.

What Radson said with a suggestion that you look at OR "Mutant mitts" Ex US Army and cheap because of it

on top of good gear, poor circulation won't help the situation, if the blood vessels are clogged. taking fish oil can help improve the circulation and may reduce damage to the extremeties in the cold...

radson wrote:Oh easy Outdoor Research Alti Mitts and La Sportiva Olympus Mons Evo.

BUt seriously =, nothing like a big pair of f^&* off mitts to slip your hands into if you are feeling a bit digitally vulnerable. I almost always carry a big pair of mitts in my top pocket. My spare set are an ultra lightweight pair from PHD but Macpac actually make some decent mitts at a reasonable cost

The thing with hands as well at higher altitudes, is to focus on some of the little things that add up. Are your wrists covered. Blood supply is close to the skin there an can lose heat. Consider thermals with thumb loops that help cover the wrist. Even more importantly are you adequately fed and hydrated. A muesli bar etc can often revitalise the ailing/cold climber.

As for feet. similar really. Are your boots big enough to allow adequate circulation and do you have dry socks. As you say, Kili is a hard one for boots with the extremes of temperatures. Still double boots are overkill. Sometimes you do just have to suffer. I would be looking at something along the lines of La Sportiva Trango with room some very thick socks.

+2 all spot on.

Also consider vapour barrier type socks for cold feet (plastic bags to neoprene to vapourtherm). You shouldn't need them most of the time in Tassie - but the warmth difference is impressive.

I bookmarked this site years ago

It may help

http://www.eat.lth.se/fileadmin/eat/Ter ... er4_2.html

OR Alti Mitts, a big thumbs up for them as well.
Earlier in the piece you could try these http://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/ ... loves-p882
Boots .... http://www.scarpa.co.uk/mountain/high-a ... ntom-6000/

severe cold, well coldest I have been in for an extended period of time is -62c (ambient,meaning without windchill) in Taloyoak, Nunavut, Canada. I have 12 years experience in these frigid conditions, and I will tell you my dog mitts (yep, dog....husky or to be more accurate, Eskimo Dog), are the warmest. Of the mitts available in our retail world, either the OR MITTS, or what I used for a few months (got rid of the as they were slippery on the snowmobile handlebars), were the synthetic Marmot 8000 meter mitts. Super warm.
Ill dig up some pics of my various "skin" mitts. All I can say is " when in Rome", which they have done successfully for 40,000 years using Polar bear,wolf,caribou,seal,dog, and wolverine to name some. Just for info... Dog is the warmest, followed by polar bear and wolf.

How cold is the summit of Kilimanjaro?
I don't think it qualifies as extreme, and as you will be spending only a short time there I don't think you will need to go to Arctic/Everest quality.
Any decent assortment of gloves mittens and windproof shell will do the trick.
The windproof shell is probably the most important and if it was just for emergency or short term use even a plastic breadbag works for that.

I think when it comes to buying gear you also need to ask how often in the future the gear will be needed, sometimes buying cheaper [ ie second hand or surplus] is a better solution, for moderate cold [ -18C] I actually like US army surplus trigger finger mitts as they give really good fell on the shaft of an iceaxe

The OR Mutant mitt is simply an updated trigger finger mitt using modern materials

Moondog55 wrote:How cold is the summit of Kilimanjaro?

They will be staring at -15 or even a little lower at the summit, so I'd feel pretty happy with the OR mitts, particularly if they're standing around for awhile.

-15 isn't really all that cold. It would be the transition from warm at the base to colds at the summit that I would find harder to get used to

nq111 wrote:
Also consider vapour barrier type socks for cold feet (plastic bags to neoprene to vapourtherm). You shouldn't need them most of the time in Tassie - but the warmth difference is impressive.

A suggestion similar to the above. I've done a bit of snowshoeing in Australia down to about -6c daytime temp. I found that using a pair of seal skinz waterproof socks over my woolies greatly improved the warmth of my feet and prevented my socks from getting damp. I have a slow resting heart rate and have a rough time in cold weather so I have to be careful of this kind of thing.

Moondog55 wrote:-15 isn't really all that cold. It would be the transition from warm at the base to colds at the summit that I would find harder to get used to

Moondog, for you and I, who are familiar with those temps, no it's not that cold, however, there would be folks who don't get into that terrain all that often and for them it's *&%$#! cold.
This was why in my first post I suggested some Extremities Super Inferno gloves.
These will help a lot in the transition and then, if still cold, the mitts will do the trick.

roysta wrote:

Moondog55 wrote:-15 isn't really all that cold. It would be the transition from warm at the base to colds at the summit that I would find harder to get used to

Moondog, for you and I, who are familiar with those temps, no it's not that cold, however, there would be folks who don't get into that terrain all that often and for them it's *&%$#! cold.
This was why in my first post I suggested some Extremities Super Inferno gloves.
These will help a lot in the transition and then, if still cold, the mitts will do the trick.

Right, I do forget how I reacted when I went to Scotland, I went to a shop and bought 3 pairs of gloves, then had to go back and buy the overmittens. It's not how cold you dress for but how you dress for the cold that counts.
Layers, starting with something light and comfortable next to the skin then insulation then wind-proofing, judging how much of each is a balancing act isn't it?

Dachsteins.

Dachsteins are good, but hard to find and I always thought my Helly Hansen windshell mitts were warmer

basically get handwear designed in a country where its frigging cold....

wayno wrote:basically get handwear designed in a country where its frigging cold....

Frigg being the Norse goddess of winter??? LOL

frig is what you say when your balls freeze on the brass monkey...

KANANGRABOYD wrote:Dog is the warmest, followed by polar bear and wolf.

Exactly how do they obtain the dog fur? Natural death or bred to kill for the fur? I can't imagine you would get much fur out of one dog so I assume they are quite expensive. I suppose you would get a fair harvest from a polar bear which died naturally or had to be shot for safety reasons.

hikingoz wrote:

nq111 wrote:
Also consider vapour barrier type socks for cold feet (plastic bags to neoprene to vapourtherm). You shouldn't need them most of the time in Tassie - but the warmth difference is impressive.

A suggestion similar to the above. I've done a bit of snowshoeing in Australia down to about -6c daytime temp. I found that using a pair of seal skinz waterproof socks over my woolies greatly improved the warmth of my feet and prevented my socks from getting damp. I have a slow resting heart rate and have a rough time in cold weather so I have to be careful of this kind of thing.

+1. 'SealSkinz' are the anatinus intestina when it comes to keeping the toes, toasty

All the best.