Bushwalk Australia

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but my searching has been unsuccessful. With the 50% off sale posted today, I suddenly could be in the market for one.

1. I think people mentioned if you get too close to the edge it tends to collapse. How much of a problem have people who move around when they sleep found this?

2. When you sit up on one, do you tend to hit the ground (as I do with my exped down mat)? Might be not so good if so, esp in snow. But might be ok in not losing head room!

3. Inflating it - what are people's preferred methods, and how long does it take you? Sounds like the bag you can buy for it isn't much chop. Onestepmore, I think you got moisture inside yours - did that end up ok?

4. Other comments - especially if you used to use one and now don't?

Thanks a lot

The biggest issue is after a few uses they tend to lose air at night and you can wake up uncomfortable in the middle of night to blow them up.

Apart from that the have all the advantages and disadvantages of a mat requiring air.

Cheers

With regard to the collapsing shoulders, you can effectively treat the mat as being 4" narrower than it really is. I find 20" quite narrow as it is.

Ent wrote:The biggest issue is after a few uses they tend to lose air at night and you can wake up uncomfortable in the middle of night to blow them up.
Cheers

Have others had this problem, or was Ent just unlucky with his? Thanks for all your input.

I haven't used the neo-air, but I have an Xtherm and haven't experienced any of these issues after about 20 nights of use. I did get a puncture on the side, but the patch that came with it did the job. If you're considering a neo air I would also suggest you consider the xtherm.

Biggest issue my mate had with his neoair was the noise, they're very crinkly, not that it phased me when we did the OLT.

Tortoise wrote:

Ent wrote:The biggest issue is after a few uses they tend to lose air at night and you can wake up uncomfortable in the middle of night to blow them up.
Cheers

Have others had this problem, or was Ent just unlucky with his? Thanks for all your input.

I'm on my second. My first was bought in early 2009 and has seen many nights use. It does lose some air now overnight, but not enough to wake me up I just notice it is less pressured in the morning. I'm relatively light though, 72kg. One thing I have done since day zero is to never fully inflate it until I am ready for bed - if you leave them pumped up during the day they can pop a few seams. I blow it up, hop into my SB and then deflate it until I'm comfortable. My new one is the NeoAir XTherm. It's warmer than the original.

I read somewhere that repeated unfold/use/fold cycles cause tiny pinholes around the seams. I think Colin Ibbotson blogged about it.

We have had our neo-airs for a couple of years and have had no problems (touch wood). I love mine- I find it really comfy and have my best nights sleep camping since I started using them. In the snow I add a CCF mat and sometimes also take a thin one on other walks for a bit of extra protection. I havent had a problem with it deflating overnight. I keep the valve up head end to let a bit extra out if I have made it too firm. It takes a bit to blow it up (by mouth) but its not really that bad, a few minutes, a few head spins and your done. I wouldn't mind one of those x-therms

Thanks to you, Tortoise, I am now the proud owner of a neoair xtherm.

-icefest

I have an original Neo Air and just bought an Exped Downmat UL 7 LW for some luxury and winter use (not in the 50% off sale mind you!!). I've only slept on the downmat once (in my lounge room) but I'd say the Neo is just a comfy (allowing for the fact the Exped is a large/wide and my neo is a regular. I actually find when sitting on it you tend to bottom out more on the downmat than on the neo for some reason.

My Neo also tends to go down a little overnight and I often wake up about 5-6am and give it a couple of breaths. But it has seen a heck of a lot of use to be honest. Mine is also just starting to "delaminate", two of the "humps" at the foot end have become one - no issue yet. I'm a big boy at 100kg with clothes and sleeping bag.

A Neo Air all season would be my all round pick of the Neos, or the Xtherm if the bleeding edge is your thing.

Down side? Yet to find one.

Had mine 3 years or so now, doesnt go down overnight. comfy. Light and packs small. Perfect!!

Tortoise wrote:

Ent wrote:The biggest issue is after a few uses they tend to lose air at night and you can wake up uncomfortable in the middle of night to blow them up.
Cheers

Have others had this problem, or was Ent just unlucky with his? Thanks for all your input.

Mine goes down every 3-4 hours, very frustrating. I just bought an Exped air mattress to see how it goes. At half the RRP I don't really care if it doesn't last as long.

Ive got the Neoair all season. Ive slept on it for probably 20 nights so far. No deflation. Well insulated. I found a little less air than more is better. I have fairly wide shoulders and weigh 100kg and havent found rolling off it a problem and Im normally a fairly restless sleeper. I cant knock it though havent had much experience with many others of any quality.

EB

I'll echo the comments of previous posters.
I have an Xtherm, a nice piece of kit, no problems to report, just love it on cold ground.

I have the neo air xtherm and am really happy with it, no problems with the shoulders collapsing, super warm, no noise. Only thing I could say was a slight negative would be the inflation time, but that's pretty minor for an excellent mat.

Just thinking ... is the overnight deflation just physics in action - Boyle's Law, lower temp, etc. - in action. Or does it really lose air via the valve or some other point?

Tortoise, I have the Neo Air All Seasons, I have used it for at least 2 years so probably 80 nights. Not had a problem. No deflation. Very comfortable. I have converted at pack liner as the inflation bag, takes about 3 bags to fill it, before that trying to use the provided bag was useless.
Roger

Redtail wrote:Just thinking ... is the overnight deflation just physics in action - Boyle's Law, lower temp, etc. - in action. Or does it really lose air via the valve or some other point?

Yes, to some extent. It always used to "deflate" a tad, presumably for that very reason. But mine has gone beyond that now, I really should check it for leaks in the bath sometime as it may just be a simple pin prick puncture or two.
I blow mine up by breath - 18 full breaths and it's up.
Don't notice the collapsing shoulders thing.

I have the xtherm as well, love it, have no issues with it and its warm.

Just to echo the comments of other users I too am a happy Xtherm user.

1. I would be more likely to roll off the matt completely than compress the edges. Sure if you poke your finger on an edge you can collapse it but that is hardly a real situation when sleeping. My partner and I sleep with an Xtherm tied to a AllSeason and have no issues with collapsing edges. At the time I feared we might but it has never been an issue.

2. Nope. I only weight ~60kg but have never hit the floor/ground on my inflated Xtherm (or AllSeason for that matter).

3. I just blow mine up with my mouth. Takes a bit of air but is OK (I blow up the AllSeason then the Xtherm in quick sucession and can do so without spinning out - not sure on others). The included stuff-sack is a waste of time. Yet to conclude a good winter method.

4. Having used both mats for some 30+ nights now I could easily recommend either mat. The AllSeason is not quite as warm, slightly larger pack size and weight but does have a more durable top (70d vs 30d) and is slightly less noisy as a result. As I am sure you are aware from a quick search around, these mats do 'crinkle' due to the reflective material used on the interior to retain heat. Some have had other experiences but for us it is simply not an issue (or something we even notice once in sleeping bag).

Hated, hated, hated my neo air, always getting cold hands when they fell off the edge (side sleeper).

Love, love, love, LOVE my neo air trekker, large torso. Neo airs are the only thing that do not make my bony nursing damaged hips hurt in the mornings. I wish they made the all season in the large torso, but down to zero I have been okay, and it dosent get much below that here, ever. No clue about when I go to tas, but that is next years issue. I use a converted air bag as a pump, it no longer is truly waterproof, but works as a stuff sack with a small ammount of added protection for non critical, but gosh I would really like it to be dry even if I go for a swim stuff. The weight is worth it to not make myself dizzy pumping up my beloved air mat. If I am going to be dizzy when walking, I want it to be because we brought too much scotch with us.

I got a NeoAir as a gift and ended up returning it after trying a friend's NeoAir. Those were two of the worst nights I've ever had trying to sleep on that thing. Even just hanging out in the tent I couldn't easily stay on top of it, it was like a bunking bronco. I inflated it hard, then I let some air out, then let some more out, but it didn't matter what I did with it. For it's small dimensions (I had the smallest, lightest NeoAir) it is too thick. My feet hung off the end and roated my spine if I was on my side, my arms hung off the sides if I was on my back, and I couldn't get my pillow tall enough to keep my head from being too low so my neck hurt. But the maing thing was that the pad seemed to want me off of it. If I wasn't balanced perfectly right in the middle it would push me off to one side, and the sides of the NeoAir simply collapse if you weight them. I hated that thing with a passion, but I'm a gram counter and it weighs about half of what my current pad weighs. I really, really wanted to like it but the reality is that it is simply not for me.

So try it, probably you'll be like most people and love it. I wish I did. I'm going to have to leave the whisky at home to make up for the weight I can't save with a lighter pad.

Orion wrote:I got a NeoAir as a gift and ended up returning it after trying a friend's NeoAir. Those were two of the worst nights I've ever had trying to sleep on that thing. Even just hanging out in the tent I couldn't easily stay on top of it, it was like a bunking bronco. I inflated it hard, then I let some air out, then let some more out, but it didn't matter what I did with it. For it's small dimensions (I had the smallest, lightest NeoAir) it is too thick. My feet hung off the end and roated my spine if I was on my side, my arms hung off the sides if I was on my back, and I couldn't get my pillow tall enough to keep my head from being too low so my neck hurt. But the maing thing was that the pad seemed to want me off of it. If I wasn't balanced perfectly right in the middle it would push me off to one side, and the sides of the NeoAir simply collapse if you weight them. I hated that thing with a passion, but I'm a gram counter and it weighs about half of what my current pad weighs. I really, really wanted to like it but the reality is that it is simply not for me.

You have summed up my experience perfectly.

well, I may regret doing the deed last night. I went for the medium Xtherm, partly because it's so much cheaper than the All Seasons at the mo. I took the plunge as I've often wondered about the Neo-airs in general (but haven't wondered too much because of the stratospheric prices) partly because I was given some 'frivolous money' to spend that coincided nicely with the sale. Oh, and i'm trying reeeeally to get my pack weight for 7 days in Tassie under 20kg...

I'm hoping that being smaller and lighter, I won't have the bucking broncho experience. Worst case scenario - there'll be a used-once-on-the-bedroom-floor-xtherm going for half the RRP in the market square soon, for those who missed the sale.
Again, thanks everyone for sharing your experiences, good or bad.

Julies wrote:I wish they made the all season in the large torso,

They do!
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/trek-and-travel/neoair-all-season/product

Bucking bronco - LOL! Yeah, I imagine a 3/4 length Neo would suck.

sthughes wrote:
Bucking bronco - LOL! Yeah, I imagine a 3/4 length Neo would suck.

I'm counting on it being ok for a 3/4 length person

sthughes wrote:

Julies wrote:I wish they made the all season in the large torso,

They do!
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/trek-and-travel/neoair-all-season/product

Nope, there is a large, but not a large and short or torso as they call it. The large torso is perfect for small people that sleep curled up. The weight penalty is too much for a long and wide pad that I will only use half of, and the rest of it just takes up room!

sthughes wrote:Bucking bronco - LOL! Yeah, I imagine a 3/4 length Neo would suck.

And yet a lot of people are okay with it. My friend isn't a midget and uses an XLite Small size without complaint. I'm jealous of that tiny thing. You could accidently leave it behind it's so small when packed. I really wish I understood why it doesn't work for me.

I did lay down on the Regular full size version in the store and under those conditions it wasn't nearly as bad. But it only weighs a little less than my current pad (ProLite Plus Small) which I find to be very comfortable.

Tortoise I've got the NeoAir Xlite and have no issues with my hips hitting the ground if I sleep on my side, or if I push off with a hand. Maybe I sleep with it more inflated than others? I haven't had the crinkly sound effect that lots of others seem to report either.
I recently bought my daughter (who's is similar height to me,165 cm) a short NeoAir Xtherm, that she'll use with an eggshell style Zlite sit pad under her legs. She wanted a smaller sleeping mat. Not used it yet, so we'll see how it goes.

And in answer to your earlier question about condensation in them after blowing up by mouth - I tried the stuff sack bags (several brands in fact...) and thay have all been retired from mat blowing up duty and will just be used as stuff bags! I also tried the little battery operated inflater, but it was yet another gadget to carry, it's slow (I know, get it going and go and do something else, but patience isn't my biggest virtue) and you still need to inflate the last bit by mouth, so that pretty much defeated the purpose. So now we just say bugger it, and blow them up the old way.