Bushwalk Australia

Does anyone else have the issue of hanging off the side of their mat and having a poor nights sleep as a result? I have spent the last few months teaching myself to sleep on my back which has helped. but still drop an elbow off the edge. A simple matter of practice? Or is there something more to it.

I'm on a Exped synmat UL7 if it makes a difference.

Was thinking the same thing last night on my DM UL7. I don't hang off the edge and don't get a bad sleep as such, but I'll definitely go for the LW model next time around.

Actually, the Expeds are pretty good in this regard - the two outside rolls are higher, so the kinda tip you back inwards. Probably doesn't help the arm drop though.

All depends on one's shoulder width.

GPSGuided wrote:All depends on one's shoulder width.

Not for side sleepers.

Strider wrote:Not for side sleepers.

Then per OP's problem, the shoulders won't drop off the mat. Problem solved.

I'm a side sleeper and have the LW for the extra width. Problem solved.

That's why I like a big futon when I'm car camping, I got this mammoth sleeping bag (not sure you can call it a bag anymore) : http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Sleeping- ... -Squire-20 It's so thick I don't need a sleeping mat anymore, as long as the ground isn't made of sharp rocks, and not too cold. I used it in Morton NP (it was around freezing at night) with the tent on grass and it was fine.

Bear in mind that contour-hugging mattresses exist, such as the Thermarest Dreamtime (not sure if it would be transportable for a 2 day hike, but if you need comfort, you may want to make the effort).

i'm a 6ft/95kg side sleeper with an exped UL7 and i only have the "arm out of bed" problem when i'm car camping and use a full size pillow. when i'm on a walk and using a much smaller pillow then i don't tend to toss and turn so much.

it also helps if its too cold to put your arms outside your sleeping bag

dannnnn wrote:i'm a 6ft/95kg side sleeper with an exped UL7 and i only have the "arm out of bed" problem when i'm car camping and use a full size pillow. when i'm on a walk and using a much smaller pillow then i don't tend to toss and turn so much.

it also helps if its too cold to put your arms outside your sleeping bag

Interesting point re the pillow, most time's i've used it I've had a 'proper' pillow due to meeting people at the other end. I'm fairly average in stature, have gradually trained myself from a legs and arms everywhere stomach sleeper to not too bad back sleeper.

Sounds like more practice... More reason to get out more often

neilmny wrote:I'm a side sleeper and have the LW for the extra width. Problem solved.

I also have the LW. I'm not a side sleeper but with my old regular width Synmat I also fell victim to the dreaded arm drop, and especially now that I have a quilt it would be been totally unsuitable. The LW at exactly 600 grams seems like a small price to pay for a luxurious night's sleep. I supplement it with a thin 3/4 CCF mat in winter.

I've only tried the NeoAir XLite and found it completely intolerable. The elbow hanging off the side was only one of the problems. I had hoped to be able to learn to use it but there was just no way. My solution has been to go back to a previous generation pad, a Prolight Plus. Because it's thinner an elbow off the side doesn't bug me. And overall it is so much more comfortable whether I'm on my side or my back that the extra weight is well worth carrying. For me, at least.

3 ways I have solved the issue (in order of what they cost):
1. Stay inside zipped up sleeping bag so it holds your arms in.
2. Use a bit of CC foam mat as a matress extension for your arm.
3. buy a long/wide version of the mat

Orion wrote:I've only tried the NeoAir XLite and found it completely intolerable. The elbow hanging off the side was only one of the problems. I had hoped to be able to learn to use it but there was just no way. My solution has been to go back to a previous generation pad, a Prolight Plus. Because it's thinner an elbow off the side doesn't bug me. And overall it is so much more comfortable whether I'm on my side or my back that the extra weight is well worth carrying. For me, at least.

The Exped mats feel nothing like the NeoAirs, FYI. I really disliked my old (original version) NeoAir.

Joomy wrote:

Orion wrote:I've only tried the NeoAir XLite and found it completely intolerable. The elbow hanging off the side was only one of the problems. I had hoped to be able to learn to use it but there was just no way. My solution has been to go back to a previous generation pad, a Prolight Plus. Because it's thinner an elbow off the side doesn't bug me. And overall it is so much more comfortable whether I'm on my side or my back that the extra weight is well worth carrying. For me, at least.

The Exped mats feel nothing like the NeoAirs, FYI. I really disliked my old (original version) NeoAir.

+1

Joomy wrote:The Exped mats feel nothing like the NeoAirs, FYI. I really disliked my old (original version) NeoAir.

Unfortunately they offer little in terms of weight savings over my current pad. I'm already comfortable with my old pad.
The Basic UL small would save 100g. But with an R Value of 0.7 it would have a limited seasonal usage. I wouldn't use it now.

I'm curious how the Exped solves the other issues of a short, narrow, thick pad.

Doesn't your elbow still hang off the side when you're on your back?
Don't your legs hang down causing your spine to bend when you're on your side?
Isn't it next to impossible to construct a pillow tall enough to keep your neck happy?

Exped use taller baffles on the edges. Neoairs are well known for their collapsing shoulder issue.

Orion wrote:Doesn't your elbow still hang off the side when you're on your back?
Don't your legs hang down causing your spine to bend when you're on your side?
Isn't it next to impossible to construct a pillow tall enough to keep your neck happy?

All reasons I went for the LW. It's 600 grams on my scales, R 3.1. I used to have the regular width/length but at 6'4 I found it comfy but annoying mainly for the arm droop issue. Legs generally were OK since I put them on my pack or clothing. Pillow was not a problem but pillows are a whole 'nother matter. I use an MYOG foam one (still being refined) because I get neck issues if I don't have a good pillow. The LW is pure luxury and easily worth the weight penalty, IMO.

So another night out on it. Narrow pillow helps alot.

As does slightly raising the edges of the pillow so you naturally roll to the centre.

just get someone to wrap you up like a cocoon and you'll be right - maybe even turn into a Bogong Moth?!

Something I do with mats is put clothes underneath the sides of the mat so that the mat kinda makes a concave shape. This acts like the exped mats mentioned above in keeping you centred and less likely to fling yourself out the side. So i would roll jackets pants etc longways and tuck them under the length of the side of the upper mat near my upper body.

I still cant help thinking also, that some people are shaving grams for unnecessary discomfort.

radson wrote:Something I do with mats is put clothes underneath the sides of the mat so that the mat kinda makes a concave shape. This acts like the exped mats mentioned above in keeping you centred and less likely to fling yourself out the side. So i would roll jackets pants etc longways and tuck them under the length of the side of the upper mat near my upper body.

I still cant help thinking also, that some people are shaving grams for unnecessary discomfort.

The clothes on the side are what I unintentionally found.

As for the grams thing, I asked a couple of mate's what to go with and they mentioned exped - Bogong had it on special when I went in to look at one.
I need a good nights sleep, but as it's my first ever light weight mat I'll persist for a little while, and hopefully learn a little more about what I need before I rush out and buy another

If its Exped you're after, wait until Mainpeak have one of their 30% off sales. Usually a few times a year. I paid $160 for my DM UL 7 M with free delivery.

You just missed the 40% off sale at kellysbasecamp, though I think that's a regular-ish occurrence if you wait enough.

radson wrote:Something I do with mats is put clothes underneath the sides of the mat so that the mat kinda makes a concave shape. This acts like the exped mats mentioned above in keeping you centred and less likely to fling yourself out the side. So i would roll jackets pants etc longways and tuck them under the length of the side of the upper mat near my upper body.

I rarely have enough extra clothing to create a perfect pillow nevermind try to make up for an inadequate mat.

radson wrote:I still cant help thinking also, that some people are shaving grams for unnecessary discomfort.

There's always some of that but most of the people I've spoken to love their tiny UL mats. My old mattress is very comfortable and pretty good at 430g. But the idea of halving that weight and bulk was very enticing. Ironically, it turns out I'd need a UL mat so large that it would be heavier than my non-UL mat.

So I look forward to the next generation of high-tech and high priced bushwalking mattresses.

Orion wrote:Ironically, it turns out I'd need a UL mat so large that it would be heavier than my non-UL mat.

But likely 10x more comfortable..

Strider wrote:

Joomy wrote:

Orion wrote:I've only tried the NeoAir XLite and found it completely intolerable. The elbow hanging off the side was only one of the problems. I had hoped to be able to learn to use it but there was just no way. My solution has been to go back to a previous generation pad, a Prolight Plus. Because it's thinner an elbow off the side doesn't bug me. And overall it is so much more comfortable whether I'm on my side or my back that the extra weight is well worth carrying. For me, at least.

The Exped mats feel nothing like the NeoAirs, FYI. I really disliked my old (original version) NeoAir.

+1

+2.
I managed for years on a prolite 4 without too many complaints but decided to go along with the lighter weight and try a Neoair. I have not had a good night sleep yet! And its not only my arm that rolls out, I do. Okay so I am a bit of a restless sleeper but I never found myself rolling off my prolite, well not that I noticed. So my most recent addition has been the exped DM UL7 and so far so good. I've had about 5 nights on it now and had reasonable sleeps although have had complaints from others about how noisy it is. But as least I'm getting a better nights sleep.

Orion wrote:Ironically, it turns out I'd need a UL mat so large that it would be heavier than my non-UL mat.

Unlike seemingly every other person on this forum, I have a neoair and I love it.
It's half the weight of my original mat (thermarest classic). It's bigger (LW) so that my oversize body doesn't hang off the edges. It's so much more comfortable than the old 1 inch mat. Not to mention that now I do not freeze when sleeping on snow (Old thermarest + blue foam mat and I was still cold).

While many people swear by expeds for comfort, I'd much rather save the 500g that the exped would be heavier for the same size, warmth and toughness.

Then again, I have been known to fall asleep on a set of stairs.

For those who are disappointed with me, how could you be angry when you are looking at this cute animal?

500g? Which Exped mat are you comparing to? My LW Synmat is 600g total. The UL down mat in LW is only slightly heavier.

Joomy wrote:500g? Which Exped mat are you comparing to? My LW Synmat is 600g total. The UL down mat in LW is only slightly heavier.

I thought exactly the same thing and figured he must be comparing to the older Exped models.