NZ army issues waterproof camo bibles...

[wayno]

hope they don't loose too many...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11117086

[wayno]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/defence/news/ ... d=11117871

[Moondog55]

That's pretty cool, but personally I would rather see the technology used for trampers maps and guide books

[Mark F]

When I first saw the post I thought are they meant to be used for offence or defence? As they are BG endorsed I can only assume they have survival value.

[Goddo]

LOL

NZ defence force tackling the big equipment deficiencies in their force structure I see. Waterproof bibles... who needs aircraft, vehicles, artillery, radios, et cetera.

The ADF also hands these things out when you join. I don't know why the need for this in a modern secular society. If people want to believe in imaginary friends thats fine, but it should never be forced onto others.

[GPSGuided]

When faced with life and death on the battle front, even the most secular soldiers decompensate. But seriously, when will NZ soldiers need to face such adversities again? Can't think of a more safe part of the world than NZ.

[wayno]

they went out and bought a hundred odd eight wheeled APC's,,, they deploy to afghanistan but the APC's are too big to use in the areas of afghanistan the nzers were in.... so they sat at home playing wargames....

they borrowed hummers from the yanks, they wanted something better armoured but the yanks said no, some kiwis were killed when ambushed in the hummers...

they were outgunned by the taleban in afghanistan because the kiwi weapons didnt have enough range to fight back with at long range and when the afghans were firing down from the mountains above...

[Strider]

I would be more interested to know why taxpayers money is being wasted on bibles. Do the God-botherers not already have their own?

[wayno]

When faced with life and death on the battle front, even the most secular soldiers decompensate. But seriously, when will NZ soldiers need to face such adversities again? Can't think of a more safe part of the world than NZ.

nz troops have been in combat in east timor. and in iraq as well as afghanistan.... like the sas everywhere, our sas dont publicise all the combat situations they are deployed in.

[wayno]

I would be more interested to know why taxpayers money is being wasted on bibles. Do the God-botherers not already have their own?

probably not andi gues its cheaper making a few waterproof ones than a lot of non waterproof ones that get trashed

[Strider]

I would be more interested to know why taxpayers money is being wasted on bibles. Do the God-botherers not already have their own?

probably not andi gues its cheaper making a few waterproof ones than a lot of non waterproof ones that get trashed

Why do they need them at all??!

[Moondog55]

To quote an old saw Strider
"There are no atheists on a battlefield"

And if I read the original article correctly the bibles were paid for by a combination of church and public donations, and if it were me whose life was on the line I may find some little comfort in the bible, even tho I am a pagan. Never underestimate the need for comfort and morale boosters in times of severe stress and I see it as a very cost effective way of dealing with some of those issues. I still have my ADF issue bible floating around somewhere, they still handed one out in the 70s. If nothing else it's something to read. Combat is; I am told; 90% boredom and 10% sheer terror, a book that helps with both conditions is cheap therapy.
Non-soldiers have no right to comment in my opinion

[GPSGuided]

nz troops have been in combat in east timor. and in iraq as well as afghanistan.... like the sas everywhere, our sas dont publicise all the combat situations they are deployed in.

For most of those conflicts, it'd be more sensible to be issued with a waterproof copy of the lyric of "The Star Spangled Banner", along with the bible. East Timor was more of a no match police operation.

[wayno]

nz troops have been in combat in east timor. and in iraq as well as afghanistan.... like the sas everywhere, our sas dont publicise all the combat situations they are deployed in.

For most of those conflicts, it'd be more sensible to be issued with a waterproof copy of the lyric of "The Star Spangled Banner", along with the bible. East Timor was more of a no match police operation.

i'm sorry but your information about Timor is incorrect, the SAS at least were involved in some quite serious battles in the area to keep the locals safe from guerillas...

[GPSGuided]

they were outgunned by the taleban in afghanistan because the kiwi weapons didnt have enough range to fight back with at long range and when the afghans were firing down from the mountains above...

That's a sad and unbelievable state. Yes, definitely need the bible.

[wayno]

a new zeleand soldier was killed in an ambush in timor
i know the sister of a soldier who served there, he found his service there pretty stressful

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/new-zealand ... imor-leste

[GPSGuided]

i'm sorry but your information about Timor is incorrect, the SAS at least were involved in some quite serious battles in the area to keep the locals safe from guerillas...

No denying there'd be tough skirmishes, especially for the individual soldiers. But I understand it's not at the same scale as in Afghanistan and those WWI trenches.

[wayno]

i dont think scale matters when youre in combat, it may be much of a muchness for the intensity experienced even if it is a "small skirmish".
you could say that about the battle for the Kokoda trail that it didnt compare in scale, but reading about it, it would probably still rate as a horrific an experience as just about any
when people are trying to kill you does the scale of the combat really matter?

[GPSGuided]

when people are trying to kill you does the scale of the combat really matter?

I guess not really. But being able to call in serious fire support when your opponents have none helps. I think one of the worst horrors of war would be one like the Battle of Dien Bien Phu. With decent fire support, but nowhere to hide and still getting overrun by overwhelming enemy numbers.

[Moondog55]

Kokoda?
My uncles were there, they had nightmares for the whole rest of their lives

[wayno]

theres a reasonable amount of videos about kokoda on youtube,

[GPSGuided]

Not to down play the heroics and horrors of modern wars, but I still can't imagine the wars of past generations where hand to hand combat is the norm. Face to face, hack or be hacked and then left on the battlefields to die slowly.

[wayno]

pre firearms it was common to see a lot of men in day to day life walking round missing parts of limbs, scars criss crossing their faces, parts of their face missing.
your chances of surviving battle injuries have gone up eight fold since world war two and even higher than pre penicillin times..

[GPSGuided]

pre firearms it was common to see a lot of men in day to day life walking round missing parts of limbs, scars criss crossing their faces, parts of their face missing.
your chances of surviving battle injuries have gone up eight fold since world war two and even higher than pre penicillin times..

Yes, whilst wars have been beamed into our homes, but it's largely sanitised in comparison. A snippet of horror showed when TV footages showed the burned out vehicles of Iraq's retreating army columns during the First Gulf War. The multitude of charred bodies of soldiers in and out of those vehicles. Just horrible.

[wayno]

saving private ryan would be one of the few war movies that depicts something approaching the detail of the graphic horror of battle, i've read extensive accounts of d day and it matches up pretty well except that it took five hours to get off omaha beach. the movie had to get that scene resolved in twenty minutes

[perfectlydark]

Band of brothers was a top follow on to SPR as well. Not that I could personally imagine what it would really be like in combat but if its anything like that show I probably would have lost it on the airdrop in

[GPSGuided]

Yes, Band of Brothers was a very well scripted and filmed series. Saving Private Ryan also gave another facet of war. Glad there are no more John Wayne and Arnie styled war movies.

[geoskid]

hope they don't loose too many...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11117086

Was there anything in particular you wanted to highlight in this article Wayno?

[geoskid]

To quote an old saw Strider
"There are no atheists on a battlefield"
Yes, but we all know it's not true - time it was put to bed ,eh?



Non-soldiers have no right to comment in my opinion

C'mon, stress( life and death stress) is dealt with all the time by all sorts of people relying on their critical faculties.

[geoskid]

Y'know, If I was in a really sticky situation with someone else, and they pulled out the Babble as a coping measure, I would know I was now doing the thinking for both of us.