Young Family Starting out! Gear help please!

[Kyliel]

I have been madly lurking and reading posts - loving this website! This is my first post!

We have two young children (3 & 5) who love walking and can now do decent walks so we are looking to branch out to overnight walks and hopefully graduate up to longer walks over the next few years.

We are having a lot of trouble working out where to start, we don't have heaps of $$ and are starting from scratch in terms of gear. We want enough decent stuff that makes it a good experience for the kids without spending massive dollars, if that is at ALL possible?! We are avid campers but all out stuff is car camping based so too heavy to be lugging around with us!

Biggest confusion is over tent (thinking vango tempest 400), sleeping mats, sleeping bags, stove/cooking system (thinking msr flex system with ?? Stove?) and boots.

We have purchased osprey packs (husband aether 85 and me ariel 65) and camelbak scouts for the kids.

I realise this is a broad request, but please if you have any advice on where to go from here for us, good value starting out gear, tips for kids gear etc, I would greatly appreciate it!

[Davidf61]

Evening Kyliel, big request but I'll give it a crack!

First get a tent with room for at least 3 decent pads, 1 each adult, kids to share and then with a LARGE vestibule [ important! Kid space! ] for all the crap you'll bring along. Wildearth have a decent selection of Vango stuff [ Tempest 400/Spirit 300/Beta 350xl? ] and there'll be something there to fit, just remember you'll be dividing the weight of a reasonable size tent between the adults.

How about a Trangia set up for cooking, plenty around new and secondhand, various types/sizes with lots of pot/pan combinations, safe/stable around the kids, and the 5 year old can carry it easy too, helps involve them.

Lot's of bodies to share heat, maybe cheap bags that zip together, give that familiar quilt/doona feeling for the kids too.

Try to buy decent self inflating mattresses, if your all comfy sleeping it will make the whole experience easier.

Rather than spend big dollars on clothing/boots, just pick your weather very carefully, and keep the walk short, just a few easy k's for the kids, maybe along a river or something with visual appeal. No horror uphills or extended boring bits. With a 3 and 5 year old in tow the whole circus will revolve around them, so take your time, keep it simple o/night stuff, and try and involve the kids with putting up tents and cooking and so forth, lots of thank you's for helping the grownups!

I'm sure others will chime in soon, cheers.

[KANANGRABOYD]

send me a PM and I can give you a list of what is standard gear for camping - also with lil koala's!
great to have you on the forum, and it is AWESOME that you are taking the kids out at that early age when most parents these days don't let their kids go even outside the house.
hope to hear from you,
KB

[Moondog55]

Welcome to the forum.
I second the idea of keeping the trips short as kids are natural malingerers when it comes to adult goals.
The biggest expense is going to be the group shelter/tent as almost any chain store has clothing suitable that was considered state of the art stuff when I first took my tadpoles out 3 decades ago. The one piece of clothing I would advise spending money on is a decent waterproof jacket/storm parka and over pants.
This is despite the fact that kids grow out of stuff very fast, being cold and wet is a bad way to experience bushwalking. if you can sew there are patterns and fabric out there suitable for kids water proofs and no need for the miracle fabrics at this age, simple and ROBUST as kids seem to delight in ripping clothes to shreds as soon as the get into the bush
Buy gear at end of season sales too. Most important bit of advice I can pass on is simply "Keep it fun"

[Giddy_up]

I have been madly lurking and reading posts - loving this website! This is my first post!

We have two young children (3 & 5) who love walking and can now do decent walks so we are looking to branch out to overnight walks and hopefully graduate up to longer walks over the next few years.

We are having a lot of trouble working out where to start, we don't have heaps of $$ and are starting from scratch in terms of gear. We want enough decent stuff that makes it a good experience for the kids without spending massive dollars, if that is at ALL possible?! We are avid campers but all out stuff is car camping based so too heavy to be lugging around with us!

Biggest confusion is over tent (thinking vango tempest 400), sleeping mats, sleeping bags, stove/cooking system (thinking msr flex system with ?? Stove?) and boots.

We have purchased osprey packs (husband aether 85 and me ariel 65) and camelbak scouts for the kids.

I realise this is a broad request, but please if you have any advice on where to go from here for us, good value starting out gear, tips for kids gear etc, I would greatly appreciate it!

Hi Kyliel and welcome on board,

I do a bit of hiking with my kids and the best advice I can give is keep it short and make it fun. I use to take a game of snakes and ladders for tent time before bed, its now chess for us as they have grown a bit and I find they want to talk a little more.

Sounds like you have the packs sorted which is good and they will carry the weight you will be hauling easily. Tents is a hard one but one to think about would be the Tarptent Hogback. It's a four person tent that weighs under 2kgs and costs less than $400 and you won't need to replace it any time soon. Most buy a tent then decide its to heavy for a changed scenario but that won't be a problem with this tent. If two people wanted to go this tent is light enough to be carried by one person. Maybe Franco is about to give us some more insight on its features.

On the cooking front I can only tell you what we do. My kids love eating freeze dried bag meals which is just so easy, all I have needed to do was boil water and have something to decant the food into and something to drink their milo from. MSR have a complete system called the Flex 4. It Has pots, cups, bowls and cutlery all neatly packed in one carry bag and will afford you space in your pack rather than taking all those individual items loose, it would be worth a look and I think from memory around $200. Couple this with any gas stove and you would be good to go and its simple.

Sleep......well buy the best pads you can as the insulation that they afford is worth it. We have Exped inflatables and love them. Sleeping bags, match them to where you hike. Children generally sleep colder than adults so keep that in mind when you choose, and I would suggest synthetic bags for the kids, just in case the spill something etc, you know what I mean.

Clothing, my kids still hike in their sneakers without a care in the world and for wet wether gear they have Cape jacket and pants. Very light weight and cheap and will keep them dry in a downpour. They can then just pull them off after as they don't breathe at all and will get hot. If you do sew, make some little sock covers for them, helps keep grass seed etc out of the shoes and socks and will mean less stops for you to remedy the problem.

Another great thing is to buy them a little head lamp each. My kids have little Silva lamps, they are light and with two LED's give enough light to explore a little after dark. I also take a good torch, only a AAA but its good enough to do some spotlighting at night and you will be amazed at what you will see and it will also make the dark something that is fun and full of wonder, instead of something to worry about.

Don't forget to pack teddy as he likes to participate in all the camping experiences and above all enjoy it, they grow up to quickly.

Cheers
G_U

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[Kyliel]

Hi everyone!

Thanks for the great info so far!

KB - loving getting the kids outside. Have spent much of the last two months' worth of weekends out skiing with the kids as well and they just love being outside! It's a win-win for us, that's for sure. Too many kids (nieces and nephews included) are wrapped in cotton wool (and ipads) way too much these days. Have pm'd you! Thanks!

Moondog - thanks for the advice on the clothes - i was beginning to have nightmares of twice-worn expensive materials before they grew out of them!

Davidf1 - thanks for the ideas on the tent - having been researching the Vango tents a bit and i think I like the sound of the tempest 400 - seems the lighter one at around 4.5kg from memory? Have you had any experience with them? I haven't heard anything much bad about them, but few people ever recommend them which makes me nervous!

Giddy up - Thanks for the great ideas. I've had my eye on the msr flex system and we have a basic gas cooker, good to hear we're on the right track! I'll also head off and look at the exped inflatables now!!
As for the tent, I stumbled across the tarptent hogback from my reading on the forum and love the look of it. I struggled to find where to buy them in australia and what the prices were, but got the feeling they were out of our price range. If you had more info on them and where to see them i'd love to hear, especially if they are under the $400 mark!

Lots more research to go!

[simonm]

Kyliel

You get Tarptents from the USA, and the hogback is $395 US plus delivery - much lighter than the tent you are looking at.

https://www.tarptent.com/cgi-bin/surfshop1/shop.cgi?ud=BgsEAQILDQYCAxQXFx0XHQYGAQIICwIIAggRFAAA&t=main.htm&storeid=1&sortby=categories,itemid&cols=3&c=search.htm&categories=00015

[icefest]

As far as making do with sleeping bags when it gets really cold, I have photos of myself as a little kid in a kiddie bag, with that inside my parents double bag.
If you are tight for money, cheaper self inflatable mats work too, they just weigh roughly double. (but can cost 1/4)
The older kid can carry a sleeping mat.
If you have 2 adults, you can realistically estimate to get away with 20-23kg per adult.
I doubt you'll walk that far. If you camp near water it'll be much easier.

If you have time and want to save money on tents, keep hunting for a second hand one.

[simonm]

You could also look to make some bags/quilts for your kids if you are that way inclined.

With regards to the stove - I don't know why but my kids are enthralled by the Trangia. It is reasonably kid friendly as long as they are supervised of course.

[Strider]

Where are you located?

I wouldn't bother with a Trangia - you'll only want to move on to something better/lighter/faster in time anyway. Start off with a decent but affordable stove like the Kovea Spider that can perform well in almost all conditions and handle a decent weight pot.

I would also avoid "all in one" cooking/eating sets like the MSR Flex. Such sets usually fall down in at least one area, despite excelling in another. In my experience you are better off putting together your own kit with the items YOU want in it. I dare say this is how your kit will end up looking in a couple of years time regardless of which way you start out anyway.

Sleeping mats I tend to hold the belief that a goods nights sleep is critical for the next days walking, though these aren't too critical unless you're in very cold conditions. Cheap self-inflating ones will be enough to get you started unless you take comfort very seriously like myself.

Boots, go with what fits your feet best. No other advice really applies here.

Your current sleeping bags should be fine provided they arent stupidly heavy.

Remember, the poor man (or woman!) pays twice.

[Kyliel]

Thanks Strider, we're in Melbourne's outer east!

Simonm - fingers crossed we can come across a good second hand one, hopefully before cup weekend , our sleeping bags aren't too bad, so I think you're right, make do with those for now and upgrade later!

[Lizzy]

Hi Kylie,
In my experience kids are fine on a cheap closed cell foam mat. Hey most of use started out on them & for use oldies they are definitely not the most comfy but for littlies they are fine. Given half the chance mine wriggle off anyway.
In terms of cooking gear I have a kovea gas stove which I use with 2 MSR pots that nest.
Tents- I used to have a pyramid but prefer freestanding variety. So now have a sierra designs lightning HT 4. It's a bit over 3 kg & very spacious inside. Happy so far.
Sleeping bags I bought the kids womens -1 degree C down bags. They are a bit shorter & I push the foot up inside itself to shorten them- should last a while. I went with down for weight & size (& our lack of accidents )
Clothes- as Moondog said plenty of fleeces around. Also keep an eye out for end of season clearances at outdoor shops. Also Aldi for thermals etc. I bought marmot precip jackets online which were very good value & excellent but they don't like to ship them here these days
Have fun
Lizzy

[Tortoise]

Hi Kylie,
In my experience kids are fine on a cheap closed cell foam mat.

+1
Little kids I know have done just fine on closed cell foam mats. Lots of different brands of differing quality out there these days. You might need to lie down on them in the shop.
Other people here would know which ones are worth it.

Hey most of use started out on them & for use oldies they are definitely not the most comfy but for littlies they are fine.

I didn't graduate from my CCF mat till I'd done a 14 day walk!

[drakkar]

We buy alot of stuff for my daughter (now 3) off ebay/gumtree then sell it on for a similar price the following year when she has outgrown it.

She is quite comfy on a foam roll up 'yoga' mat that has been cut down. proved this the other week camping at the base of lake mountain on moist/cold ground. She got very very wriggly when she rolled off it

Be very carefull you don't get caught up with the idea of the gear rather than focus on the adventure.
2 x 2man tents 'may' be cheaper/lighter than 1 3/4man. Lightweight ones can often be a bit fragile, I havent met many little ones that remember the word gentle. Until your doing longer distance stuff I'd just look at a cheap anaconda style hiking tent. Doesnt matter if it gets trashed, worst case if it survives in a few years they their own backyard or car camping tent.

[baldhead]

Hi Kylie

Same as Drakkar buy as much gear 2nd hand then re sell if out grow.

Have found the op shops really good for kids and adults fleece tops we usually take two a lighter one and heavier one if cold plus thermals beanie gloves etc
Have bought all our kids waterproof pants from op shop and they work fine
Sleeping mats, Bowls and cups and billy from op shop
If you can't find stuff 2nd hand wait for sales from major retailers eg Snowgum have been having a good sale on kids water proof jackets
The other key investment for us is good synthetic sleeping bags, we went for One Planet there are plenty of other options out there, just be careful with some brands temperature rating can be unreliable.

We don't worry with boots we find sneakers are good and clean socks / crocs for camp
We use small gaiters if snake season

One thing I really appreciate walking with kids is slowing down not being in too much of a hurry

Have fun

Cheers

[eaglehawk]

Hi Kylie, good on you. And lucky kids!

We walk with a 5yr and a 7r old and have done since they were very little. Here's the gear we use, not saying we know best or anything, just sharing info. There isn't a lot of info out there for people who actually, really bushwalk with their young ones.

I 2nd the gaiters for snake reasons,Tatonka make little kids ones.
Tents - we use a Golite Shangri la 5 - light, easy to set up, spacious. For winter a Bibler Bombshelter - which is none of these things! but is warm, snug and safe. Both bought 2nd hand. You can save real money in this department.
Sleeping bags - if you camp in the cold, I can't fault Mountain Hardwears Mountain Goat adjustable sleeping bag. But we did have to buy in from OS. They're synthetic.
Mats - We bought Pacific Outdoor Equipment kids mats but they are very small and about to be outgrown. In hindsight we should have got 2nd hand 3/4 thermarests or UL expeds (they love mine).
Shoes are such a short term item, while very young stick with joggers or grosby style boots. If they're uncomfortable you'll be told! Now we do longer walks we have excellent kids hiking boots (italian made, an ebay score), but just as important is good socks, our kids prefer Mt Designs.
Packs are funny, they like to take them but don't always like to carry them! Don't load them up with too much because you'll likely end up carrying them at some stage. We did get them hydration packs for the Jatbula Trail in the NT and the eldest drank way more than normal but the youngest drank way less (struggled to use it) so make sure you keep an eye on how much/little water they're actually getting.
Can't say much about stoves, we use a MSR XGK, not at all child friendly but won't die so stuck with it. I do like our MSR Alpine 4 person cookset though, Has a 3L, 2L and a 1L pot, but we never take the 1L, too small.
For summer walking my Mum sews the kids lightweight cotton long sleeve shirts and pants that are wonderful. I have some to pass on if interested let me know.

Start young, keep increasing, keep it fun, you'd be surprised how far little legs can go. And what they'll learn out there!

[Moondog55]

I just remembered something I posted in an earlier thread about walking with young children.
There are some MUST TAKE items. If the kids have a favourite toy or cuddly animal do take it, also favourite bedtime book.
My kids practically lived on 2 minute noodles and Weetbix at that age if you don't count all the fresh fruit; so don't try and change the diet too much. I wa lucky enough to get some Ridge Rest 3/4 mats cheap and my kids were very comfortable on those. My eldest went snow camping/ski touring for the first time at 8YO and I just added a CCF pad.
For summer camping all you really need are cheap polyester quilts/ sleep-over type bags (Aldi $20-??) in the cooler months they can sleep in their warm clothes in the short term.

[eaglehawk]

So far we have got away without rain pants because we get rain jackets long enough to come down to their gators.
We use cheap synthetic thermals because our kids refuse to wear merino.

[Moondog55]

We need a section for swapping kids gear, I now have step-grandkids so I'll be buying stuff for tadpoles again. I have scored well so far on eBay and at Aldi

[Kyliel]

Oh yes! A swap section would be great!

This forum is just fantastic!! Thankyou so much for all this invaluable information!!

eaglehawk - let me know when you are getting rid of any kids gear, we may be able to work something out!

[Joomy]

Lots of good info here. I would echo the advice not to go too cheap and heavy on the tent. If you can afford it I would also recommend the Tarptent Hogback. If you can't afford it right now (or can't afford to wait -- the lead time is several weeks) then by all means go for a cheaper, heavier tent, but just be aware that you'll probably find yourself wanting to upgrade it in the near to medium future.

Sleeping systems are the next heaviest item after pack and tent, so same advice goes. Paying slightly more for lighter, warmer bags might save you having to spend more in the future, but obviously most people have to compromise somewhere. If you're quick you might be able to score a couple of "old" sea to summit bags at half price. They moved to dry down and are trying to move their old stock... Great chance to get two nice bags for the price of one.

[Moondog55]

. If you're quick you might be able to score a couple of "old" sea to summit bags at half price. They moved to dry down and are trying to move their old stock... Great chance to get two nice bags for the price of one.

Where??

[icefest]

These: http://www.backcountrygear.com/down-sle ... cturer=106
Failing that I loved the ajungilak I used to have: http://www.basegear.com/mammut-ajungila ... eason.html

And paddy pallin: http://www.paddypallin.com.au/clearance/equipment.html

The ajungilak is lighter and warmer though.

[Kyliel]

thanks icefest! Checking them out now!

[Joomy]

. If you're quick you might be able to score a couple of "old" sea to summit bags at half price. They moved to dry down and are trying to move their old stock... Great chance to get two nice bags for the price of one.

Where??

The talus at paddy pallin was what I was thinking of, but their website doesn't seem up to date with their stock. The Canberra store has a few each of ts1 and ts2 last I checked. Might be worth checking/calling around to individual stores.

[neilmny]

Some lower cost gear but good gear is available from http://www.wildearth.com.au/
and http://www.kellysbasecamp.com.au/
I've found them both to be good and reliable to deal with.
Ferrino tents are fairly good bang for buck http://adventurefriends.com.au/ultralight
(I have no affiliations with any of these suppliers)

[Moondog55]

Keep looking in the Op-Shops too, I just got another MD Traveller/Convertible for $4- Needs a wash that's all.
Joomy Thanks Not that I need one LOL

[icefest]

I have all the clearance pages from most aussie retailers as bookmarks. It does mean that you will not have the newest gear.

[simonm]

Yesterday I picked up 2 Rainbird jackets for my little tackers (18months and 3 years) for $10each from Allgoods here in Tassie. They should keep them reasonably dry in a down pour.