Down jacket suggestions?

[J M]

I'm planning to go backpacking around Europe late next year (ie. in the middle of their winter) and am wondering what people think the best down jacket would be for this?

Or, if not a down jacket, the best clothing setup?

I'll most likely be going up north (Norway etc.)too, so it'll have to be a fairly warm jacket. I'm looking for something fairly robust but still lightweight and 'packable'.

For reference, I'm about 6'1 and have a slim build.

I haven't had much experience with down jackets, so all advice is much appreciated!

[wayno]

first have a read of this.
search the forums

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14776&hilit=down+jacket#p195917

[wayno]

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Winter-Ja ... ws/ratings

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Down-Jack ... ws/Ratings

[J M]

Thanks Wayno. Didn't see this when I searched before!

[wayno]

i'm a big mont bell fan, high quality gear...
the frostline would fit the bill, cant get it in the shops down under though

http://iclimb.co.nz/aus_insulation.htm

outdoor research, montane, marmot, mammut also make great down jackets. theres more brands but you won't get them down under.

[edzknows]

I got one in this style http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Men-Wear ... 12589.html
extremely cheap for what you get, and the build quality is amazing for the price, i can hardly fault it. Looks much more $$$ then it is.
Ended up buying a 2nd one for my mother because she liked it so much. Both the green and maroon look great.
Mine weights 600grams in the Large size, im usually a small/medium.
I have only tested it in Jindabyne walking around at night in the snow season, but it was awesomely warm then. The other times i have tried it, have been warmer and i got too hot... Im a warm person generally though.

[wayno]

the ad shows a The North Face jacket
highly unlikely the north face would sell jackets for that price,
at the local outlet store they are still hundreds of dollars.
i'd doubt if its a genuine the north face jacket, there should be an embargo on shipping to aus because of the local distributors sole rights to distribute all the north face gear in australasia...
you get what you pay for, if it is fake the quality can be pretty variable. waterproof gear that's not waterproof....

[wayno]

just looking at the jacket picture, i doubt it has down in it at all... its not "puffy enough" for the size of the compartments, it has the appearance of being a synthetic jacket because of the compartment sizes and the flat appearance of the compartments also the big sweeping cuves of stittching through the compartments is usual for synthetic material to hold it in place in the jacket.... that would explain the cheap price....

[GPSGuided]

Ummm... Two digit figure to find out. Nay.

[wayno]

wonder if theres any after sales service...

[wayno]

the north face went after someone in NZ selling fake North Face gear on trademe. nz's ebay.
the guy claimed ignorance to it being fake. not sure how he was prosecuted.

[Giddy_up]

the ad shows a The North Face jacket
highly unlikely the north face would sell jackets for that price,
at the local outlet store they are still hundreds of dollars.
i'd doubt if its a genuine the north face jacket, there should be an embargo on shipping to aus because of the local distributors sole rights to distribute all the north face gear in australasia...
you get what you pay for, if it is fake the quality can be pretty variable. waterproof gear that's not waterproof....

That's good spotting wayno, all the other labels on the first couple of jackets have been removed or redacted in the photo. Looks like they might have something to hide?

[wayno]

all the north face gear is listed as The Northed Faced, is that to try and avoid internet searches for pirated gear?

[wildernesswanderer]

As they say to good to be true is to good to be true. Shipping from China, if that doesn't ring the warning bells then nothing would. Not even a good knockoff

[J M]

Interesting little development with the fake jacket....

This may sound like a weird question, but do down jackets have 'temperature ratings' like, for example, sleeping bags?
I've never used one before and I was wondering what temperature a jacket like the Montbell Frost Smoke would keep you warm to? Obviously with thermals, midlayer etc. underneath.

[wayno]

no,, depends on your tolerance to the cold.
at 360grams its on the light side,wont be warm enough for a scandanavian winter, certainly not if you stop moving....
look at the warmth rating scale in the comparative review mont bell do much warmer jackets than that

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Down-Jack ... ws/ratings

[wayno]

you might need to consider this range of jackets, forget about lightweight in a north european winter,, your priority is warmth, the weather gets extremely nasty there, a lot of wind chill

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Winter-Ja ... ws/Ratings

[wayno]

something more like this

http://www.hiking.com.au/p/4583549/rab- ... rance.html

[GPSGuided]

The definition of "backpacking" varies so much. If it's just hostel hopping in Western Europe, then it's not that bad. There'll be heating everywhere you go. A different story if going "homeless" or in 3rd world/developing countries of course. Otherwise, I have found cold weather clothing are much better purchased in cold places than from here in warm Australia. There'll be a wider range of options to choose from and often cheaper options can be found. More importantly, clothing can be chosen that's exactly appropriate for the condition by looking and asking the locals. Too many warm country travellers go over over-geared as for a Himalayan expedition and looking somewhat ridiculous. In my books, general backpacking holiday in Euroland doesn't require high end performance gears.

Personally, I would just go with your warmest cloth there in Victoria with more layers. Then supplement/shop as needed when you are there. Warm hostel, warm shops, warm galleries, warm museums, warm public transport etc. It's those in between jumps that you need to cover yourself. You'd be really really really unlucky to get hit by blizzard days with minus double digit temperature every day.

[wayno]

good points about defining backpacking. what will your outdoor activities be, i'd just thought of the american backpacking outdoors definition...

[GPSGuided]

Public transport is so well networked there in Euroland, exposure to the elements is typically and significantly less than backpacking in many northerly North American cities. There's always a Euro cafe or pastry shop that one can duck into to warm up, not so in N America.

[J M]

The definition of "backpacking" varies so much.

It will be pretty much just that - 'hostel hopping', through Germany, Italy etc. I haven't thoroughly planned anything yet, but I would like to travel into Norway etc, to see the Northern Lights. One my mates is pretty keen to go to Iceland as well,
which I imagine will be quite cold. So I suppose the main use for it would be the 'in-between' times spent walking through towns, rather than on actual walks.

To complicate matters a bit more though, I'd still like to use this for any future winter walks in Australia as well.

[GPSGuided]

Anything that works in Euro winter would work fine for general winter walks here (said with a grain of salt of course). For a good decade and more I've travelled north to Euroland and N Am on a monthly basis and have done perfectly well with business shirt, a cotton pullover and a windbreaking dress outer coat through their annual winters, and I did plenty touristy walks. Nothing technical at all. Locals often wear even less. If you are prepared with current day layering concept, you'd be more than fine. Given your likely need to walk more on city streets, what's probably more important are in the accessories ie. Thermal underpants, gloves, a warm hat and comfortable insulating shoes. As I suggested, look to buy a down jacket after you get there, you don't need to spend a lot. It's meant to be a low cost backpacking holiday, right? Save the money and spend it on local food and sights! You'll need every cent there. France/Italy/Germany aren't that cold in winter unless there's a blizzard.

[icefest]

do down jackets have 'temperature ratings' like, for example, sleeping bags?.

No, not like sleeping bags.

Your best bet is to compare the down loft and weight, the the construction type (Baffle type)

[edzknows]

Hey guys, i thought it was quite obvious that it was a fake north face jacket, didnt know people were so against that kinda thing here.
I had a look through their "summit series" range and couldnt find anything similar, but thats what its meant to be copying as far as i can see.
It came with transparent plastic bubble on the tag that is filled with down, with the north face logo on it, you would be very hard pressed to know its not genuine, if you care about that.
Its almost 100% sure its down, not synthetic. I know its not going to be comparable to the $300 down jackets, but i didnt really want to buy a $300 down jacket when i had not bought one before and was wary of how they stand up to rough use in backpacking and also their ability to be useful in any sort of wet weather, given what ive heard about down.
Each to their own

[GPSGuided]

Who knows? It's not impossible either that that factory is indeed an OEM for North Face. As such, things happen, for times far longer than when China became the current "factory of the world". I recall in the early 70s, there were similar knock-offs from Taiwan, HK, Japan and other Asian OEM factories. Nothing new there. I think it's a good thing that we now have the option to access goods that are priced closer to their true value, rather than being forced to pay massive label premium as well as to the middlemen. $30 for a down jacket, perfectly probable and reasonable. What's even better is, Made in China label is no longer the same. There are some really good quality/value goods associated with that label these days.

[wayno]

with the trip your describing, i totally dont disagree with gpsguided...
plus if you go shopping in europe you'll have a bigger choice of gear to choose from. you'll be after a jacket to suit what you're going to be doing in the long term after this trip, since you can sit out extreme weather indoors on this trip

[slparker]

I spent 6 weeks in Europe last winter. If you're at all spending hours outside get a down jacket. i also wore 3/4/ merino thermal leggings and softshell trousers when i was outside all day. You can't live in a cafe all day and it's freaking cold being in -10 for hours on end. (and that was central europe - iceland and norway would be a special kind of cold i imagine). My wife and I wore goretex lined boots as well which are great in the snow.
oh, and do what the locals do- get a scarf

[wayno]

freind lives in southern norway,,, its relatively mild weather down there, its northern scandanavia you have to be worried about...

[GPSGuided]

It's the cold snaps that gets people there, no different to the episodic heat waves we have here. It doesn't happen all the time, but in irregular short episodes. As suggested, bring the layers and then shop for a nice jacket over there. Nothing fancy needed. Stay indoors when it gets really really cold, like the locals and all sane tourists.