eVent certified as non toxic

[wayno]

Overland Park, KS — GE (NYSE: GE) announced today that the expanded polytetrafluorothylene (ePTFE) membranes used in eVent fabrics for apparel and footwear for outdoor activities, cycling and snow sports, have been awarded the OEKO-TEX® Standard 100 certification. The OEKO-TEX® Standard 100 is a comprehensive, global textile product safety certification program that tests textile products for chemical substances which are believed to be harmful to human health such as heavy metals, carcinogenic dye stuffs, pesticides, and formaldehyde. The certification is independent and voluntary. The OEKO-TEX® Standard 100 certification was granted to GE after testing determined that its ePTFE untreated and oleophobic-treated membranes met the established standards.

http://www.snewsnet.com/press-release/g ... tification

[GPSGuided]

Don't understand. Hasn't eVent already been used in those applications? Is it suggesting that eVent is a form of ePTFE, which Gortex is also.

[wayno]

it doesnt need the certification to be approved for use, either event has become cleaner or the organisation got round to testing it ot event got round to presenting it for testing.
BUT DWR treatments are usually toxic. if someone is after a non toxic membrane though , eVent is a consideration
greenpeace did a study on the toxicity of various popular brands of rainshell jackets
at least one brand claiming to be reasonably squeaky clean wasnt...

http://www.greenpeace.de/fileadmin/gpd/ ... _02_es.pdf

[GPSGuided]

But if they are all ePTFE, then...

[icefest]

As wayno said, it's not the eptfe but the dwr and other treatments that make it toxic.

[GPSGuided]

Just found this page that explains and demonstrates the unique properties of eVent. Yep, both has ePTFE base but varies in the way how the protective PU layer was applied. Now it's all clear.

http://www.facewest.co.uk/Gore-Tex-eVen ... 1274172004

[GPSGuided]

As wayno said, it's not the eptfe but the dwr and other treatments that make it toxic.

Ummm... Why do I suspect that some of the medical implant ePTFE products, at least the ones from 10-20 years ago won't pass this perfluorination test?

[icefest]

As wayno said, it's not the eptfe but the dwr and other treatments that make it toxic.

Ummm... Why do I suspect that some of the medical implant ePTFE products, at least the ones from 10-20 years ago won't pass this perfluorination test?

Sorry, I thought you were taking about the current generation of hiking equipment. Not oranges.

[GPSGuided]

Yes I was. The point here is, one would think that the toxicity standards used by Greenpeace would be of real life relevance. If medical implants material has issues passing, then... Of course, I am speculating here and need to do a deeper read. I recall those PTFE/Gortex were all fluorinated.

[icefest]

By fluorinated, do you mean 'contain flourine'?, because ptfe contains fluorine by definition.

[GPSGuided]

By fluorinated, do you mean 'contain flourine'?, because ptfe contains fluorine by definition.

Yes, that could be the mix up although there may be more, hence a need to read up a bit more on some of their reference tests. But honestly, I can't really be bothered on this one...

[wayno]

event doesnt contain polyeurethane..

[GPSGuided]

event doesnt contain polyeurethane..

Doesn't it? According to that earlier linked article, it stated that the difference with eVent is that PU is driven into the ePTFE pores while Gortex has PU as a membrane. Hence the difference in the characteristics of the two membranes. The surface coating within the pore channels by PU permits the direct transit of gases through the membrane.

[wayno]

i stand corrected. i missed that bit. first i'me i've known it mentioned that they use polyeurethane, event manufactuerers themselves dont advertise that they just say they have processed the ePTFE to resist fat and oils clinging to it rather than stating how they have treated it.

[icefest]

Here is a quick summary:
Teflon/PTFE/polytetraflouroethylene is a flourocarbon polymer containing only flourine and carbon.
Perflourinated compounds (PFCs) is what the greenpeace study looked at. These are organic molecules with (almost) all the hyrdrogen atoms replace with flourine, but still containing at least one other atom or functinal group. PFOA is one of the molecules in this class, it is used to make PTFE.

Both are almost indestructible in nature as the carbon-fluorine bond is very strong.

Summary of the Greenpeace publication:
Only compounds extractable with organic solvents were tested, they were then analysed with gas/liquid chromatography, and/or mass spectroscopy.
-All contained PFOA (even the greenpeace jackets)
+++Worst offenders were jack Wolfskin, North face, Patagonia, Kaikalla, Marmot
+++Lowest were Mountain Equipment, Vaude Women and Zimtstern
-Perfluorooctane sulfonate (PFOS) was not found in any sample (as per 2008 ban)

I'll write more later, please post any errors and I'll correct them.
-icefest


This is the greenpeace publication: http://www.greenpeace.de/fileadmin/gpd/ ... _02_es.pdf

[GPSGuided]

Thank Icefest! It's been a while since I touched organic chemistry in any serious way. Glad you had the patience to dealt into it deeper.

The video in that explanatory link I posted is very interesting, showing how air can be driven through an eVent membrane. Of course, that demo may have been partially rigged. When I used to "play" with ePTFE, we knew how the material porosity could be altered by additional stretching of the material and with some products, one needs to peel a layer to permit further modifications. The whole production process was very interesting too.

[wayno]

depends on the face fabric its attached to, the heavier the fabric the lower the thread count teh less gaps between threads for teh air to get through, tests show the most breathable membranes can get outperformed against less breathable membranes if you use a thinner face fabric against teh membrane... you can outperform event with the old gore tex membrane with teh right fabrics...

[GPSGuided]

Agree Wayno. At the end of the day, it's such a maze for us consumers. We can only go with reputation of the company and objectively interpret any user reports that we read.

[wayno]

backpacking light did some extensive testing in the field of the breathability of rainshells in dry conditions..
the resuults arent what you'd expect based on the data put out by manufacturers...., fabric thickness and venting was a bigger factor in breathability than the membranes, but they were all membranes that were at the higher end of the berathability range, gore tex, and some better generic brands...

[GPSGuided]

As such, it'd be impossible to keep up with all the new products out there. So buy, use and be happy. If ever there's a quantum leap in technology, I am sure we'll all know about it. Otherwise and to me, the difference at a particular quality point is not something I am going to waste too much time on.

[wayno]

one of the most popular selling rainshells is the marmot precip. a lightish jacket, one of their cheaper offerings.. just uses a generic membrane, moderate breathability in teh scale of things, but it has pit zips.....

[GPSGuided]

Value point!

[wayno]

and it does teh job, if it didnt do teh job it wouldnt continue to be a big seller, with online retailers people see the good reviews and more people buy.
you can get for well below US$100 and overall reviews are high, four out of five stars on average

http://www.gearbuyer.com/products/marmo ... _mens.html

[GPSGuided]

Yes. But I got their Aegis jacket. A good brand in my book and more than good enough for me.

[zhenjie]

Got the Aegis jacket last year too. Nice and light but at times I do feel a bit clammy in it. I heard the fabric is being updated for more breathability, I'll definitely upgrade if its substantial improvement.

[GPSGuided]

Got the Aegis jacket last year too. Nice and light but at times I do feel a bit clammy in it. I heard the fabric is being updated for more breathability, I'll definitely upgrade if its substantial improvement.

As Wayno has always reminded us, wash it regularly to maintain their performance.