Old bags vs new bags

[darrenb]

Back in 1987 I bought a J&H Dandelion sleeping bag, which at $340 was a significant purchase. I couldn't say that it has been overused, but it has been a lot of places, and I'm still using it. I've been reviewing some of my gear lately, but am reluctant to let go of my old Dandelion bag because I love it so much. Are the new ones any better? My Dandelion was rated at -10 degrees (I think) and weighs a tad over 1300 grams. Its a mummy shape and the fill is down, but I don't know the loft or type. Just wondering how this would compare to modern bags. Is a modern bag with similar performance any lighter? (I hope not, because I really want to keep using it). Does anyone else still use a 28 year-old sleeping bag?

[Canberra Trekker]

I use a JH Snobag which is rated -20C I think and it was purchased probably about 1986. I don't think it has deteriorated much at all,. used it last year snow camping when temperature was -15C. Snug as a bug in that bag. My only comment about is that it a tad on bulky and heavy side. With stuff sack it weighs in at 2kg. Can't remember what I paid for it.

[Moondog55]

Still using my J&H Flouro Ultra Same vintage
Still good and not that much heavier than a new bag at ~1100 grams

[darrenb]

I think and it was purchased probably about 1986.

Looks like yours is a similar era to mine - I love the original advertisement. Great to hear that you still use it.

[darrenb]

not that much heavier than a new bag at ~1100 grams

This is good news to me. Thanks for the reply.

[GPSGuided]

What the posts told me is, investing in a quality bag is worth doing, for its longevity.

[darrenb]

What the posts told me is, investing in a quality bag is worth doing, for its longevity.

Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.

[Moondog55]

Nope I still remember exactly what my bag cost me; but I do think it has been worth it
Some things have gone down in price, both in relative and in real terms but a months wages is still a months wages

[darrenb]

Nope I still remember exactly what my bag cost me; but I do think it has been worth it
Some things have gone down in price, both in relative and in real terms but a months wages is still a months wages

Agreed. I had forgotten what mine cost but I kept the receipt LOL.

[Empty]

Bought a Macpac Dragonfly around 87 as well from Paddy P in Kent street. It was sold to me on the basis that it stuffed down to the size of a loaf of bread - which is close to the truth. A bit under 1.3 kg i think and still as good as the day I got it. Water proof foot and bright purple liner. Very cosy and roomy and an excellent bag. I have heard macpac quality has declined since but I cannot fault this bag. I use it when it is too cold for my quilt and never been remotely chilled in it even in snow which just a bivvy.

The other old bag I have... oops here she comes.

[Strider]

My EE quilt is rated to -9 and weighs 619g

[darrenb]

The other old bag I have...

It seems the old bags are still worth hanging on to (sleeping bags).

[stry]

I have exactly the same bag as darrenb. Mine is heavier - I think closer to 1350/1400. The labels used to specify fill weight, which can vary a little, and I have been known to go through all available stock looking for the highest fill weight and buy that one

I have a WM Apache with 2oz of overfill. Fill weight is at least 100g less than my Dandelion. The Apache is over 300grams lighter than my Dandelion. Internal girth is nearly identical (later OPs are for, ahem, more substantial occupants ) Loft lying flat on the floor appears to be identical, but the Apache may have a whisker more down on the top.

The Apache is significantly warmer. Can't put numbers on it, but I have been cosy in conditions that would see me cool in the Dandelion.

[andrewa]

I used to work in Mountain Designs in the early to mid 80s. At that stage sleeping bag nylons were either a standard 1.9pz/sq m, which had a ~5mm ripstop grid, or 1.5oz/sq m which had a ~3mm ripstop grid. Current nylons are under 1 oz/sq m. Standard down fill was 550 loft, but there was some extremely expensive 700 loft down which came in the mid 80s. Current down is at least 700 loft, up to 900 loft. Sleeping bags back then often seemed to be "over-engineered, with differential cuts, goretex shells, side block baffles, full length #5 zips with separate zips for the foot box etc.

How does this translate to current stuff? Back then the std winter sleeping bag we sold was a MD Stanhardt (?sp) which had about 700g of fill, and weighed about 1.5kg, I think. Keen ski tourers generally bought a warmer bag, which had about 900g fill, and weighed about 1800g. On these figures, the shell weight alone was about 800g. Add 2 ply goretex shells, and that was another 2-300g if they were laid over the nylon bag, to minimise seams.

I recently made a quilt for ski touring. The shell weight is 270g, and it has 500g of 800 loft down in it, and a solid loft of 7cm single thickness (sleeping bag loft is measured double thickness, so this equates to 14cm sleeping bag loft).

I still have my old bags, and they occasionally get used as spares, but they are bulkier and heavier than I would prefer to carry.

Andrew A

[darrenb]

Wow! Thanks for the detailed responses Andrew A and stry. I really appreciate you sharing your industry knowledge Andrew.

[Moondog55]

Ah Yes the pre Pertex days. OP were very quick to change over.
Maybe they didn't have very much stock of the old ripstop.
I have somewhere an old Mountain Equipment [ when Peter Hutchinson was starting the business] Redline bag from 1978 a kilo of down and 2 kilos in weight. 2.2ounce Ripstop
Modern fabrics are much lighter and almost as tough, in my climbing years tough was important

[north-north-west]

Almost makes me wish I'd kept that old J&H I bought back in '81. Don't remember the model. $300 on special from the Scout Shop/Allgoods in Hobart. Such a lovely warm comfy bag. And then the Fairydown Everest mummy a mate 'liberated' from TasPAWS's S&R stores and left with me. Both seriously good bags if heavy compared to the modern ones.
Should have taken better care of them.

darrenb: Is that -9 the comfort or limit rating? 1.3kg sounds very light for a -9 comfort bag of that era.

[stry]

Almost makes me wish I'd kept that old J&H I bought back in '81. Don't remember the model. $300 on special from the Scout Shop/Allgoods in Hobart. Such a lovely warm comfy bag. And then the Fairydown Everest mummy a mate 'liberated' from TasPAWS's S&R stores and left with me. Both seriously good bags if heavy compared to the modern ones.
Should have taken better care of them.

darrenb: Is that -9 the comfort or limit rating? 1.3kg sounds very light for a -9 comfort bag of that era.

Mine certainly wouldn't be any sort of comfortable for me at -9. Limit of comfort maybe, but I doubt even that for me.

[darrenb]

Is that -9 the comfort or limit rating? 1.3kg sounds very light for a -9 comfort bag of that era.

I can't find any rating or fill weight on the labels. I'm just going by memory (28 years!) - I thought that it was rated to -10. I camped next to a lake in Finland in October '87 and absolutely froze despite being fully dressed (when the bag was still new). There wasn't any ice on the water, so I don't expect that it would have been much below zero. Since then I've experienced light snowfall overnight in the Victorian Alps and in Tassie (but not snow camping). On a few occasions I have been cold in it, despite sleeping in thermals if it is cold. So to answer your question, I think -9 or -10 would be a limit rating (not sure that they specified back then). Often I'm opening the zip to cool down in Autumn/Spring in the Vic Alps in milder weather. The bag weighs in at 1335g.

[darrenb]

I also have a Fairydown Alpine sleeping bag. The label says "90% down, 10% small feather, Construction: slant wall". It weighs a little more at 1583 grams in its stuff sack. It is a few years newer than my J&H, maybe early 90's. Does anyone know the rating of this bag?

[darrenb]

I think I'll stick with the old bag.

[phsculpture]

Does anyone else still use a 28 year-old sleeping bag?

I'm still using my Paddy Pallin Hotham from Kent St 1985. It's the only bag I've ever had. I keep meaning to buy a WM Ponderosa on my regular trips back to the States, but end up not because the Hotham is just fine. If it gets cold, I just throw some extra clothes on. Every winter I use it as an extra spread over my bed. Been good value.

[darrenb]

In this throw away age where new gear is so prolific, I'm actually really heartened to hear that there are still bushwalkers who use old gear, because there is actually nothing wrong with it.

[MrsGypsy]

Awesome... I've still got my JH "Cheap Hotel".
0° rating, goose down filled, green, V baffles, hood, and 1185g in the stuffsack.
Stunningly well made in Australia!
I always worried about getting it wet, JH did have a waterproof bivy bag but I never bought one.
Bought late 80's - expensive at the time, and always hung out in my wardrobe not left stuffed... mmm I wish it was used more than left hanging but!!

If I were to upgrade I think that I would look at one made by "undercling-mike" in NSW.

[Moondog55]

I just bought a 20YO+ PaddyMade "Hotham" from Gumtree. I paid $36 including postage as the seller didn't think it was worth much at all
Apparently it has never been washed - EVER so I expect that given a wash and dry it will plump up nicely, and if not it's going to be my car-camping bag anyway
I also am going to get an old FairyDown bag from a different seller and that one is only $10-, cotton japara shell and all
This will be for the ute as my "Just in Case" bag
Nothing at all wrong with the old tech stuff when compared to the modern gear; except the weight and packed bulk

[stry]

Couple of good buys there MD. A mate used a Hotham everywhere, a lot; high country in winter, desert in winter for well over twenty years with no complaints. He might still have it for all I know, as I haven't seen him for over ten years.

Don't remember the name of our family's old FD japara bag (20 Below ?) but if it's one of those, you will be very happy with it. Way better than a "just in case" bag.

How did you manage find bags that are long enough ??

[Moondog55]

They aren't but I figure I can make a footbox for the Hotham and put up with the other being a little short
I wish it was the 20-Below but it is much lighter than that

[Moondog55]

I just googled the specs for my "Hotham"
1600grams
700 grams of 550 loft "Superdown" and this is luckily for me a LONG bag too
Rated at -5C when new, a "Soft" measurement meaning an average approximate lower limit but about right fin my experience
is you mate called Sam Barden by any chance? that's the name on the stuff sack

EDIT
I started a query in DIY

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=22209

[Chris]

Saw this topic for first time just after posting my 30-40 year old bag free to a good home.
http://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6166&p=289232#p289232
Will be sorry to part with it, but my new S2S rated to -2 is 500g lighter, packs much smaller and will be more flexible in warmer temperatures - all very appealing features for me now.

[Franco]

btw, $340 IN 1987 is about (inflation adjusted) $800 now.