Rainwear: 2-layer, 3-layer or 2.5-layer?

[Zone-5]

Rainwear: 2-layer, 3-layer or 2.5-layer?

Learnt so much from just one article!

http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/rainwear.html

Performance rainwear choices include waterproof/breathable or water resistant;
Gore-Tex® or eVent® laminates versus fabric coatings; hard shell or soft shell; and more.

What is the best rainwear for you?

This article will help you narrow the search.

[GPSGuided]

Thanks Zone-5. Read all those REI articles (what else is a member to do) and others. At the end of the day, it still comes down to what's in a store and how it performs in real life. Without personal experiences, the myriad of options is mind blowing. Perfect setup for the marketing teams to up sell.

[Zone-5]

Thanks Zone-5. Read all those REI articles (what else is a member to do) and others.

Appreciated and thanks, but sadly my last post on this forum... cheers then!

[wayno]

Breathability: an explanation of its importance, mechanisms, and limitations
http://andrewskurka.com/2012/breathabil ... mitations/

http://andrewskurka.com/2015/backpackin ... ain-pants/

[GPSGuided]

Appreciated and thanks, but sadly my last post on this forum... cheers then!

Huh?

[GPSGuided]

Breathability: an explanation of its importance, mechanisms, and limitations

Yes. At the same time with so many products out there, evidence there isn't that one perfect one. We need a membrane that can rule them all.

[wayno]

2016: Waterproof/Breathable Rebirth With New ‘Exterior Membrane’ Shell
http://gearjunkie.com/columbia-outdry-e ... of-jackets

[kymboy]

2016: Waterproof/Breathable Rebirth With New ‘Exterior Membrane’ Shell
http://gearjunkie.com/columbia-outdry-e ... of-jackets

Verrrrry interesting

[GPSGuided]

Ok, so will be the first to pick up an OutDry Extreme shell?

[wayno]

whoever shops in america... the latest gear is usually a season or more late coming down under.

[north-north-west]

'concepted'? The word is 'conceived' you semi-literate twits!

Still, the fabric sounds interesting. Plus there's a long jacket in the range. If it performs as touted I'll be looking at both jacket and pants. If I can ever afford it . . .

[gayet]

I may start saving now for the longer jacket - not sure about the pink though.

If its lighter than the Hollyford, more durable than the Zpacks, it could be a winner.

[slparker]

It's marketing tripe.
Either the reviewers weren't working hard enough to sweat or they are lying.
IF you work hard enough to work up a sweat in humid cold environments (as per the review) but with no precipitation - Guess what? You clothes will become clammy and sweaty even without a waterproof jacket on. With the waterproof jacket on it is not possible to be less clammy and sweaty.

What's important is that when you invariably get clammy and sweaty you don't remain so when stopped. That is the real test of a breathable waterproof (or windproof) garment or layering system.
The reviewers should get a test subject who sweats, or work hard enough to sweat themselves, when testing the garment. Then comment on 'breathability'.

[GPSGuided]

It's marketing tripe.
Either the reviewers weren't working hard enough to sweat or they are lying.
IF you work hard enough to work up a sweat in humid cold environments (as per the review) but with no precipitation - Guess what? You clothes will become clammy and sweaty even without a waterproof jacket on. With the waterproof jacket on it is not possible to be less clammy and sweaty.

I agree, certainly there's a sense of that unless the jacket comes with a climate control system.

[wayno]

a running top is about as breathable as you can get for a garment short of going to a string vest which is more air than fabric...
and its easy enough to get a running top sweaty when you're ecervising hard in anything other than freezing weather.

[corvus]

Appreciated and thanks, but sadly my last post on this forum... cheers then!

Huh?

Looks like "Zone -5" has been "put off"

[GPSGuided]

[Zone-5]

Looks like "Zone -5" has been "put off"

...unlikely!

[Strider]

Where does WPB Cuben fit in?

[wayno]

Where does WPB Cuben fit in?

it uses an event membrane, but not beiing a woven fabric it depends how the cuben is permeated for the moisture to get through as to how well it will let moisture out. reviews say its better than average, no idea how its dwr stacks up. smooth surface so it might be better than average

[Lophophaps]

IF you work hard enough to work up a sweat in humid cold environments (as per the review) but with no precipitation - Guess what? You clothes will become clammy and sweaty even without a waterproof jacket on. With the waterproof jacket on it is not possible to be less clammy and sweaty.

Thta's an interesting accurate way of describing matters, and can be applied to clothing as well. Some of my clothing will dry very quickly when I stop. Some will not dry in damp conditions. I have a very light compact windproof top worn under the blizzard jacket in cold conditions, and often on its own.

In the last ten or more years rainwear has been getting shorter. Time was when a blizzard jacket went to the knees or mid-thigh. This meant that on some trips it was not necessary to carry overpants, and you could sit down on the long back of the garment. These days rainwear is much shorter. What do people think is the best length for upper body rainwear and why? Also, does a shorter garment mean that overpants need to be carried more?

[wayno]

yeah i used to have longer rain jackets and shorts and had to be pretty extreme weather above the bushline for me to wear waterproof trousers
i'm far more likely to wear then now in those conditions, mind you having more poisture pereable trousers helps. my first ones werent moisture permeable at all. they used to all cost a fortune.

[beean]

IF you work hard enough to work up a sweat in humid cold environments (as per the review) but with no precipitation - Guess what? You clothes will become clammy and sweaty even without a waterproof jacket on. With the waterproof jacket on it is not possible to be less clammy and sweaty.

Thta's an interesting accurate way of describing matters, and can be applied to clothing as well. Some of my clothing will dry very quickly when I stop. Some will not dry in damp conditions. I have a very light compact windproof top worn under the blizzard jacket in cold conditions, and often on its own.

In the last ten or more years rainwear has been getting shorter. Time was when a blizzard jacket went to the knees or mid-thigh. This meant that on some trips it was not necessary to carry overpants, and you could sit down on the long back of the garment. These days rainwear is much shorter. What do people think is the best length for upper body rainwear and why? Also, does a shorter garment mean that overpants need to be carried more?

I like a shorter jacket, just enough to cover the bum. But I go for the 'climbers fit' so I like to see my feet when looking down a jacket. I find rain pants are really necessary as your legs can deal with discomfort better than your core. My trousers get wet and then dry out when the rain stops.

[Moondog55]

Modern windproof fabrics with a decent DWR treatment are so good that perhaps we should go back to simply using LW PU proofed or Silnylon raincoats when it rains?

[wayno]

Modern windproof fabrics with a decent DWR treatment are so good that perhaps we should go back to simply using LW PU proofed or Silnylon raincoats when it rains?

not where i live mate... if it cant stand up to a high pressure hose, I wouldnt touch it... i've seen too many drowned rats trusting less than fully waterproof jackets, raincoasts still have an advantage, they keep you warmer than windbreakers, they let through a lot less air and dont let in cold water from the outside, its not really mentioned but a rainjackets value can be more in its ability to reduce the likelihood of hypothermia than its falable ability to keep you dry

[Moondog55]

I must admit my own raincoat is anything but light weight but it is very, very waterproof, I think the rating is well over 30 metres of water column
You misread my post Wayno
I meant to say that we should wear the windproof then add the waterproof when and if it rains, and forgo the so-called WPB fabrics
I have worn my own raincoat over my Goretex ski parka over here in really soggy snow conditions, ie wet snow mixed with rain and sleet

[wayno]

if you think you'll only need the rainshell on for a limited time its easier but if you're going to be wearing it for hours i'd prefer not to have another shell underneath, they still get clammy and slow down moisture transwer away from the body, i wouldnt do it in cold weather. less heat gets thorugh a shell and the dew point is more likely to be around the inner shell than the outer shell in cold weather, reducing disipation of vapour.

[slparker]

I have a very light compact windproof top worn under the blizzard jacket in cold conditions, and often on its own.

That's interesting - its the right layering that i struggle with. I've recently gone to a windshirt arrangement with a base under or an integrated (driclime) layer which works well - and shell over in drenching rain. i guess the ultimate would be the windshirt against the skin but isn't it clammy and sticky (especially in variable conditions)?
I'm thinking perhaps a string thermal under would be the most minimilist that I'd go.

[Lophophaps]

In colder weather my base layer on the top is a long sleeve thermal garment, with a zipped polo neck. This wicks moisure away quite well and is warm enough. In summer the most I usually wear is thermal, shirt, windproof and blizzard jacket. Sometimes I wear the windproof and nothing else as I can maintain body heat in cooler weather and not get other garments soggy. It's a bit uncomfortable, offset by a loverly dry set of tops in camp. The windproof top washes and dries very quickly. Harvesting armpits for salt is ill-advised.

The windproof jacket looks like this. There's a hood and the carry pocket reverses to be a pocket when worn. The weight is about 175 grams. The jacket is about 20 years old, slightly dented but going strong.

Windproof jacket in its own pocket.

Windproof.JPG (136 KiB) Viewed 20577 times

[Zone-5]

In colder weather my base layer on the top is a long sleeve thermal garment, with a zipped polo neck.

I got the 3 layer armless vest with a decent DWR treatment because the coat versions are too hot!
Maintaining an even core temp over that of full weather resistance is my actual need here.
An umbrella caters for the extra storm events.